The Legacy of Ataturk spirit and the current state of the game

[TalyonUngol]

Alright, so, this is for the Ottoman side and could also be for the Turanist if I tested this out. So it looks like its Sep 1st, 1937 that this event for the illness of Ataturk fires. Now, theres some issues here that are kind of problematic. You'll get a Malus when you go through the Ottoman focuses. So if you do Election Day and chose the demokratic party, you get your leader changed from Ataturk to some other guy. Well, that triggers the focus, Assess our Future, to turn from a democracy gain to a negative 5% stability. That is a little ridiculous considering you cannot remove this it seems! Of course, I could be wrong on this, but it just seems like its unremovable.

I would like to request a change to the focus to allow you to continue to gain the bonus if you change your leader, so you aren't forced to take a 5% stability Malus. Or include an effect in a focus that will remove this national spirit.

 

[Dryhad]

Ataturk's illness begins no earlier than January 1937, with a mean time to happen of 90 days. So getting it in September is fairly lucky/unlucky depending on your purposes. It is in principle feasible to delay committing to any path (including Election Day) until the mission begins by taking military focuses so you can retire Ataturk and analyse his legacy before the Demokrats come to power. This gets you the best bonus but at the cost of some time, so you definitely want to hope Ataturk gets sick as early as possible, and maybe weigh up the tradeoff of flipping as soon as possible with getting a good bonus from the Legacy.

But also, the strategy I outlined above is kind of cheesy because if you're going Ottoman, you are definitionally defying Ataturk's legacy! The way it's set up right now, the bonus/malus is based on the situation when you take the focus; if it were more coherent and consistent then you wouldn't be able to weasel out of it at all. Certainly there's no narrative reason why Ataturk's legacy should be considered to be fulfilled if the election is won by the very people Ataturk had delayed multi-party elections in order to keep out, let alone an Ottoman restoration! Be glad that you can cheese it to get the best bonus, if you wish, because the path you're choosing should not be able to claim Ataturk's legacy for even a moment.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Ataturk's illness begins no earlier than January 1937, with a mean time to happen of 90 days. So getting it in September is fairly lucky/unlucky depending on your purposes. It is in principle feasible to delay committing to any path (including Election Day) until the mission begins by taking military focuses so you can retire Ataturk and analyse his legacy before the Demokrats come to power. This gets you the best bonus but at the cost of some time, so you definitely want to hope Ataturk gets sick as early as possible, and maybe weigh up the tradeoff of flipping as soon as possible with getting a good bonus from the Legacy.

But also, the strategy I outlined above is kind of cheesy because if you're going Ottoman, you are definitionally defying Ataturk's legacy! The way it's set up right now, the bonus/malus is based on the situation when you take the focus; if it were more coherent and consistent then you wouldn't be able to weasel out of it at all. Certainly there's no narrative reason why Ataturk's legacy should be considered to be fulfilled if the election is won by the very people Ataturk had delayed multi-party elections in order to keep out, let alone an Ottoman restoration! Be glad that you can cheese it to get the best bonus, if you wish, because the path you're choosing should not be able to claim Ataturk's legacy for even a moment.

That's fine, then there should be a focus further down in the Ottoman path that removes this Malus. It's not that he's getting sick late and I have to delay, it's having a permament malus with no way to get rid of it. It's honestly my biggest annoyance with playing the Ottomans... but I honestly just dont feel like playing Turkey atm.

 

[Dryhad]

That's fine, then there should be a focus further down in the Ottoman path that removes this Malus. It's not that he's getting sick late and I have to delay, it's having a permament malus with no way to get rid of it. It's honestly my biggest annoyance with playing the Ottomans... but I honestly just dont feel like playing Turkey atm.

No, listen, just cheese it. This is what you do:

First three focuses are obvious, Montreux Convention, Integrate the Is Bank, Ratify the Six Arrows. With these done there are six more focuses you can take safely: Treaty of Saadabad, Privatize the Anadolu Agency, Lift the Ban on Other Political Parties, and The Sanayiciler and the two focuses below that. Do not take Hold Our First Multi-Party Election. Once you've completed these nine focuses, it will be 1937 and if you're lucky The Fading Father will have already started. If it hasn't, take military focuses till it does. As soon as you're able, retire Ataturk making Bayar President, and take Assess Our Legacy. You've locked in the best outcome and now you can hold a multi-party election without fear.

Or, if you are dead set on taking the bad outcome and will only be satisfied with some way to remove the malus, then just take Improve Worker Conditions or something because literally the only malus from Ataturk's Legacy Defiled is -5% Stability and that is trivially easy to counteract.

 

[TalyonUngol]

No, listen, just cheese it. This is what you do:

First three focuses are obvious, Montreux Convention, Integrate the Is Bank, Ratify the Six Arrows. With these done there are six more focuses you can take safely: Treaty of Saadabad, Privatize the Anadolu Agency, Lift the Ban on Other Political Parties, and The Sanayiciler and the two focuses below that. Do not take Hold Our First Multi-Party Election. Once you've completed these nine focuses, it will be 1937 and if you're lucky The Fading Father will have already started. If it hasn't, take military focuses till it does. As soon as you're able, retire Ataturk making Bayar President, and take Assess Our Legacy. You've locked in the best outcome and now you can hold a multi-party election without fear.

Or, if you are dead set on taking the bad outcome and will only be satisfied with some way to remove the malus, then just take Improve Worker Conditions or something because literally the only malus from Ataturk's Legacy Defiled is -5% Stability and that is trivially easy to counteract.

I suppose. Just hate having a permament Malus is all. And I dont want to have to slow down my Ottomans. The faster I get through the Ottomans the better it is. lol

 

[Dryhad]

Bear in mind that the nine focuses you can take safely before Hold Our First Multi-Party Election are also necessary for the Ottoman path, so those are effectively free. Having done those, there is a chance Ataturk is already sick, and you can also take the 10 days grace before starting a new focus to see if the event fires before then. It's only at that point, very close to the mean time to happen, that you actually have to choose the tradeoff between doing military focuses or eating the worse outcome.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Bear in mind that the nine focuses you can take safely before Hold Our First Multi-Party Election are also necessary for the Ottoman path, so those are effectively free. Having done those, there is a chance Ataturk is already sick, and you can also take the 10 days grace before starting a new focus to see if the event fires before then. It's only at that point, very close to the mean time to happen, that you actually have to choose the tradeoff between doing military focuses or eating the worse outcome.

Well both times ive done Ottomans Ive gotten very unlucky with him getting sick.

 

[Iskulya]

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill... five stability is completely insignificant!

You should also be taking the "republicanism" decision as often as it is available, which should be up until you invite the officers back. It's 50 pp for like 8 stability or something like that.. a much better deal than improved worker conditions.

If this is your biggest issue with the Turkish focus tree.. then that's pretty high praise for it, actually. It makes sense for there to be at least some kind of penalty considering you're dramatically overturning the Republic that a vicious war of independence was fought over. Five stability really is nothing, anyway, especially considering how easily Turkey can get stability in the first place. It's a non-issue.

 

[pheonicia]

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill... five stability is completely insignificant!

You should also be taking the "republicanism" decision as often as it is available, which should be up until you invite the officers back. It's 50 pp for like 8 stability or something like that.. a much better deal than improved worker conditions.

If this is your biggest issue with the Turkish focus tree.. then that's pretty high praise for it, actually. It makes sense for there to be at least some kind of penalty considering you're dramatically overturning the Republic that a vicious war of independence was fought over. Five stability really is nothing, anyway, especially considering how easily Turkey can get stability in the first place. It's a non-issue.

Minor point in that you can't get stability you lose from spirits back with those decisions, you cap out eventually at sub 100%. In my current game I can't get over 70ish% while at war because my base stability is too low. It's a difference between base and non-base stability. I can upload the save if you want to see it for yourself.

Edit:

You can see in the image that because I already have 100% *stability* I can't actually boost it any higher with decisions, but it's then reduced by my national spirits and refuge of scientists. I can't remove legacy of attaturk or sectarian woes as the ottoman empire so I can't get any higher than this while at war. It sucks and even if it isn't game breaking it would be nice to prove that, having conquered a huge area and restored ottoman glory, I could prove attaturk was wrong and I was right. Also it would be nice to stop the sectarian violence.

and here's the save (it's on the beta patch)