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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

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CatKnight

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I. A Dying Dream

Vastergotland
September 1066


A cold, wet day in late autumn. Storms consolidated over the North Atlantic, and after pausing over an unlucky island doomed to a three-way struggle for dominance, crossed over the North Sea into Norway. The Scandinavian Mountains absorbed most of their fury, but nonetheless heavy downpours fell on this, the land of the Western Geats.

This much the servants and guardsmen took in stride, and if for whatever reason the rain seemed to attract ravens who found shelter in this or that overhang and glared at the town with their obsidian eyes, what of it? The Swedes to the north might take that as a bad omen, but the Geats were good Christians and had no use for prophetic birds. Their king, too, was a good Christian man. He'd brought redemption and salvation to all the southlands, and if the Swedish north would take a little longer what of it? Deus vult. God willed it. They would come around.

Coughing echoed through the great hall. A painful, tearing sound that ended in a wheeze, and this made the servants and guards worry much more than storms or ravens both, for their lord and king, Stenkil Thorvaldson, lay dying and there was nothing anyone could do to stop it.



*******

"Ingemo," Stenkil whispered. The king's eyes flickered open as she dabbed at the droplets of blood coating his red beard. "I'm sorry."

"Hush now," she said gently. "There is nothing to apologize for." Actually there was quite a bit between them: Her husband was a cheat who'd sired then legitimized a bastard, and he could be violent when stressed. Her forced conversion to Christianity upon their marriage rankled for years and she'd taken to food as a release. Still, he was her husband, and he'd done his duty: Provided for the family and given her three legitimate sons.

He began choking again and she helped him roll on his side. Despite what the doctors might think, they'd found it relieved pressure on his lungs and let him get more bile out. His back was drenched with sweat. Between that and the cool air...she bundled the blanket tighter around his shoulders.

"Sverker is here," she said. "He wishes to speak to you of the glory of God. Will you see him?"

"Sverker?" Stenkil demanded, showing more life than he had in days. "Damnable priest...He's counseled me since I took the throne, given only God knows how many sermons, and he still stutters."

"He loses his way in mid-thought, my dear. You only have to wait him out."

"No. No, I don't want to parse through what he says from what he means." Stenkil slumped onto his back, found that didn't answer, and used the twisted and knotted sheets of his bed to pull himself up.

"Stenkil!" she snapped. "Don't!"

"I'm alright," he whispered. Another series of coughs, though indeed sitting up seemed to help and he hugged his stomach until they passed. He looked up: Dull eyes, half glazed, and Ingemo looked away. She had a sudden vision of him lying on that bed, stilled forever, with empty eyes. It hadn't been a brilliant marriage, but it had served, and there had been some fine moments.

"Ingemo," he said. "Tell me about our sons. Have they come?"

"Erik is on the way. He went to the Sodermanland with some men to watch in case my brother starts trouble." Her brother, Jarl Erik of Uppland, long believed the throne should have passed to him on his father's death rather than Stenkil. The Thing disagreed, but of course most of the participants at the Thing were Geats. Christian Geats. Erik of Uppland harbored ill-hidden aspirations to fix that injustice, but for the past six years had done nothing but talk.

"Halsten is here. He has stopped in at times while you slept. He..is worried for you." Which was true as far as it went. What she didn't say, however, was that Halsten was also an ambitious zealot eager to spread Christ's name under his banner and gathering support among the Geats for his election.

"Inge is in Ostergotland reminding the Eastern Geats of their duty. I have sent for him to come home as well." The Eastern Geats were nominal allies, but at the last Thing Stenkil had suggested (insisted) that the pagan Jarl Kol yield to his Christian son, Sven. Sven was ten years old, easily influenced, and did not yet understand his place in the scheme of things.

"Thank you," he said. "Will you go check on dinner? I raven."

Ingemo smirked. "It'll be broth again, you know."

"Of course it will be!" he snapped. Then closed his eyes and focused on breathing. After a few moments, Ingemo nodded and left.



*******

"Never could get my temper under control," Stenkil muttered. "And now it's too late." He sighed and looked at the wall opposite him, to the bronze cross donated by some German bishop eager to encourage the king's faith. "Soon, I think," he said. "I will be there soon, and you can tell me if it was enough."

Stenkil noticed his wife hadn't mentioned Hakan, his son through another woman, but that was not a fight worth having. He lacked the strength for more fighting. The king was certain he'd never see Hakan again, indeed that Ingemo would do everything possible to banish him from the household, which was too bad. It was hardly Hakan's fault what happened. Anyway, it had only been one time, nearly twenty years ago, during a raid in Angermanland. What was he supposed to do? Ignore his lawful reward?

Chastity. In that one respect she was more Christian than he. Stenkil had never seen the point in restricting his passions to one woman, but did so for the sake of his wife. No, he did so for the sake of his God.

His people valued being able to emulate their ancestors and heroes as role models. A skald's duty in life was to make sure stories of these heroes never died so young Swedes would know how to live honorably. If he failed them in this and gave in to his base desires, if children could not look to him and see any difference between his God and those of the Vikings, then the entire Christian cause suffered. If Christianity failed in Sweden then there would be nothing to stop those Norwegian and Danish bastards from stealing his country with Europe's blessing.

Still. If God was calling him home, he would rather die on his feet (or at least stand on them one more time.) Only old men or cowards died in bed, and Stenkil knew he was neither. In healthier days he'd been the greatest archer in Vastergotland, and if his axe skills weren't quite as legendary he could at least hold his ground. In battle he made up for a lack of guile through sheer determination. Thrice during old King Emund's reign and once during his own, it'd been necessary to punish one clan or another for failing to submit to their king, and four times he led the attack.

It took far more effort than it should have to wrestle the thick blankets and furs off of him, and by the time Stenkil sat on the edge of his bed he was gasping again. He locked his gaze on his battle axe, lying next to a wooden stand against the wall. In time he stumbled to his feet and lurched towards the weapon, leaning against the wall for support. Blood flowed into limbs which hadn't seen action in weeks, and for a moment the pain actually made him forget the bloody cough. A welcome pain regardless, it reminded him that he yet lived.

In time it subsided, leaving a dull ache from the scrap that was left of his lungs. Stenkil wrapped his fist around the axe's hilt and dragged it back to bed with him. He wanted it as an icon, as a reminder of his younger self. If the Christian God wanted his soul, so be it, but it was still the soul of a Viking. In time he lay back, pulled the weapon so it lay by his side, and slept.

*******

Stenkil, son of Thorvald, King of the Swedes and the Geats, died later that night. By a freak of history, King Harald of Norway died earlier that day fighting the Saxons at Stamford Bridge. The Age of Vikings was almost over.

But it wouldn't end quietly.
 
Last edited:

tnick0225

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CatKnight

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Hello, everyone:

By my reckoning it's been about 1.5 years since I've tried to write an AAR. There are various reasons for this, none of them particularly good - offline disappointments stifled my creativity. Well, I'm back and hopefully about to tell you a fun story.

This won't be like most AARs: I'm going to make no attempt whatsoever to dominate or even reach 1453. Narratives (which this will be) usually have trouble spanning centuries. It can be done - it has been done on this forum. However, for this AAR we're going to stick with something a bit smaller and see if we can go for depth rather than breadth.

When King Stenkil of Sweden dies in 1066, the succession is disputed. Erik, Stenkil's first son, is the favorite among the southern Geats. The northern Swedes, still Pagan and still very different (at least in their minds) than the Geats, will rally around Erik the Heathen, Jarl of Uppland.

It seems very little is known of this period. In some cases Paradox's setup and Wikipedia actively disagree. In those cases I've tended to side with Paradox, since we're talking about their home country. One exception is Ingemo, who is called Maria in CK2. I have trouble imagining someone with that name growing up the daughter of a pagan king in a barely Christianized kingdom, so I'm going to go with the legend here.

I will be playing as Erik IV (Stenkil's son), but I plan to tell this story from all sides. Welcome!
*******

Table of Contents:

I. A Dying Dream (Late September, 1066)
II. Three Brothers and a Funeral (Late September)
III. And the Geats Shall Lead (Late September)
IV. Mother's Love (Late September)
V. Enter the Svear (Early October)
VI. Politics (Mid October)
 
Last edited:

BlackBishop

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Damn fine start you have here, a great atmosphere you have built up as well as characters. I shall be following!
 

SeanB

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Great to see you writing again, Catknight! An excellent start.

I have to say, your writing skills are quite impeccable. Makes me a bit jealous! :)
 

AON

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Looks very fine, very fine indeed.

Yeah, she probably wasn't called Maria. And the whole thing about Erik Stekilsson being one claimant to the throne and Erik the Heathen being the other, that's basically (maybe not so) educated guesses from historians that Paradox found fun and since there is a lot of information lacking from this period, they put it in the game. All we really know is that there was two men called Erik, who where or wanted to be king (probably one was made king by the West-Geatish Ting and the other one by the Uppish Tind) and they fought and both died, leaving Halsten son of Stenkil to be king. Then he was driven in exile a couple of years later and there is about five kings in less then ten years, sometime with dual-monarchies. Swedish early medieval history is confusing!
 

Arilou

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I have trouble imagining someone with that name growing up the daughter of a pagan king in a barely Christianized kingdom

It is entirely possible she took the name as she was baptized/converted. It wasn't an unknown practice.
 

NewbieOne

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It is entirely possible she took the name as she was baptized/converted. It wasn't an unknown practice.

Yes, name changes even happened for cultural reasons, such as marriage and relocation to a different kingdom where the name was unheard of and hard on the populace.
 

AON

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Yeah but that's unlikely seeing as Ingemo was a common name at the time.

Just want to make something clear: It's your story. Tell it however you like and I'll be happy to read it as long as it's interesting. And yes, Sweden was barely a Christian Kingdoms. But it did have Christian kings since Olof Skötkonnug, who came to power 995. Emund den Gamle/Slemme (Emund the Old/the Slimy, that's seriously his name, although it didn't mean the same thing) was batized, just not a very good Christian. Or a good king for that matter. He might also have pissed off the Arch-Bishop in Bremen, meaning that all our records of his supposed Christianity and lack of it could very well be lies by someone who was pissed that he choose a Swede to lead the missionary activity and not the papal choice (the only one who sided with the pope was Stenkil, Emunds son-in-law). Since Emund was Christian, at least in theory, he could very well have given his daughter a Christian name.

With that said, it's you're story, man. Make it good!
 

DensleyBlair

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This looks to be an epic tale - and good to have another short-spanning narrative-based tale on the site!

Certainly both an interesting start and premise - and your style of writing has definitely piqued my attetion. I wish you the best of luck :)
 

CatKnight

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tnick0225: Welcome aboard! I noticed the Stenkils don't seem to get much attention. That's too bad, reading up on this period is turning up some interesting information. (And more interesting gaps.)

BlackBishop: Glad to have you.

SeanB: And it's good to see a familiar face. Thanks, Sean! You're very kind - I think my writing's become rusty.

AON: I bow to your greater knowledge of such things, and may indeed rely on it as we go forward. I've found some interesting tidbits hidden away in different papers, but as you say much of this comes down to educated guesses.

Arilou: Good to see you as well. Yes, that occurred to me late last night, that Maria could be a plausible name for a convert. I think the truth of the matter is 'We don't know.'

NewbieOne: And it gets worse: It also occurred to me that she may have changed her name upon conversion, then after her death the populace quietly changed it BACK (or to a third name) in their records. I read there's a shrine in the area to an 'Ingemo' that may have been Stenkil's wife. It wouldn't surprise me if they changed her name in honor of King Inge. It also wouldn't surprise me if Ingemo was her original name, and Inge was effectively named after her.

AON: That...is interesting! CK2 correctly records Olof as Catholic, but states Emund is Pagan. I like your explanation - that he was baptized but just not very good at it. Stenkil knew that trying to Christianize too quickly would lead to rebellion, something Inge would learn in the 1080s. Perhaps Emund realized this also and wasn't going fast enough for Bremen.

I've also since learned that Maria was and is a reasonable name for Scandinavia, which surprised me. I figured it would be restricted to the Latin world.

I think I have a plan for her name. Let's see if it works out.

DensleyBlair: Thank you
 

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II. Three Brothers and a Funeral

Vastergotland
Late September, 1066





Erik Stenkilson stood, rigid as a sword, as servants carefully lowered his father's remains using sheets into a stone lined cyst. His father looked pale of course, but relaxed like he might only be sleeping. Loving hands had removed his death clothes and replaced them with his finest tunic and breeches, the former a deep blue and grey. His hands had been crossed across his breast for this final journey. Now Halsten, Erik's younger brother by a year, placed his father's battle axe in the grave.

Halsten whispered something to the corpse, then moved to stand between Erik and their third brother, Inge. Halsten's jaw was clenched and he glared fiercely, daring anyone to provoke an emotional reaction. Inge dealt with his grief similarly, head raised high as he looked down at their father, willing the pain away. Erik glanced at their mother. "Are you well?"

She did not look well. She looked profoundly sad, though no tears rolled down her face. "Grieve later," she said, looking up. "Honor your father now."

Erik nodded and turned back. It was difficult. His eyes stung, and no amount of mental discipline would make them stop. He felt that much more alone now, even more so since under the grief he felt a rising tide of fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of dying - Please God, when you call for me make it quick, not this lingering, painful illness - fear of what would happen next. So much to do in so little time, and what if Uncle Erik in Uppland made trouble? Oh, and who could he talk to about this? No one. No one, because in Vastergotland, doubt was a si...

"Dry those tears," Ingemo hissed in his ear. "People are watching!"

*******



Old Sverker isn't doing bad this time, thought Halsten as the Lawgiver and titular Bishop of Skara spoke. 'Old' was a relative term of course, with the priest all of thirty years old. As for 'isn't doing bad...'

"Let us...let us bow our heads and pray."

Halsten shoved the funeral to the back of his mind and thought ahead. Tomorrow riders would head for Dal and Smaland to inform them of Stenkil's fate. From there they would ride to the Eastern Geats, then the Swedes.

Custom divided each landskap into hundreds, each with their own assembly or 'thing' which dealt with local affairs. These assemblies would then send representatives to the 'landsting' of each province. In many cases these provincial assemblies were the highest level of government in Sweden. The laws of Vastergotland, for example, could be very different from Uppland, Gotland or even neighboring Dal.

Once per year the three peoples would meet in a 'Grand Ting.' The Thing of all the Geats, for example, was held in Skara and covered the Western Geats. The 'Thing of all the Swedes' was held in Uppsala, and the 'Lionga Thing' handled the Eastern Geats.

There was also a special 'thing' held at the Stone of Mora, southeast of Uppsala. Here representatives from things in Uppland and Sodermanland met to choose the next king. Outsiders couldn't vote - electing a king was strictly a Swedish affair - but they could speak and be heard. It was here where Stenkil made his case and was duly elected six years earlier.

Making his case though: Halsten knew the Upplanders in particular were sensitive about the subject of religion. When Sverker's predecessor, Adalvard the Younger, tried to convince Stenkil to close the temple at Uppsala, Stenkil refused fearing a general uprising. Ultimately the temple would need to be closed, but Halsten agreed it was better to wait. Better to let support for the false Nordic gods die on its own, then destroy the temple when few would bother to rise up.

"So, I can't talk to them about God," Halsten muttered, earning a frown from Inge. He gave the former a small smile, then looked at his bigger brother. To his astonishment, Erik had tears flowing down his cheeks. He grinned. Most of the town surrounded the family, their guards and the priest. When the time came to choose a king, they couldn't possibly follow him now.

"Do not despair brother," he murmured. "I'm here."

*******



Inge didn't pay attention to either brother nor their antics. He stared at his father, lying peacefully in his grave as Sverker droned on, occasionally stopping to think about what he wanted to say then trying again. I could do better with half the effort, he fumed.

He'd arrived too late to say good bye, too late to do anything but stare, but in its own way it was worth it. When he arrived in Ostergotland the child Jarl was confused and unsure of which way to turn if Stenkil died. Now the child, Sven, at least knew to obey Stenkil's children as he had the king. Ensuring the Eastern Geats' loyalty (and dependence) was essential in continuing God's work of unifying and Christianizing Sweden, and if Sven happened to learn something about how to rule along the way, all the better.

Still, I should have been here, Inge thought. Tears stung his eyes, and he bit into his lip until welcome pain banished the grief. Perhaps if he'd tried a little harder, worked a little faster to bring Sven around. Perhaps if he hadn't shared an exquisite afternoon with Sara, Sven's guardian since his Pagan father couldn't be trusted. Sara: Brown eyes, brown haired, perhaps some German in her distant past. Well-endowed certainly, nice hips, and when she reached out with soft, warm fingertips and...

"Brother," Halsten whispered. "You may want to adjust your sword."

"I'm not wearing a..." Inge flushed and folded his arms.

*******



"Requies.. Requiescat in pace," Sverker finished. He nodded to one of the guards ringing the family, who in turn opened a lane for grieving townspeople to say farewell to their king. They left gifts and sacrifices as well: Meat from Stenkil's favorite horse, placed in a chest at the foot of his grave so that he might use said horse to speed to the afterlife. Rings and other jewels - not many since their king was not a gaudy man, nor Vastergotland a rich province. Fruits, fish and other meats to strengthen him once he joined God. A steel dagger in case the Christian heaven and Norse Valhalla had more in common than priests supposed. It never hurt to hedge one's bets in these matters. All neatly arranged, all destined to be covered by a mound of dirt supported by stone pillars and wooden framework.

"I am so sorry, my queen," Sverker said, clasping Ingemo's hands. "He was a good man, and a good friend."

"And he is with God now," she answered lightly, though her face betrayed her sadness. "We should rejoice in that."

"I wish you had let the townsfolk have... well, have their way," Sverker added. "A thrall to serve the king's needs..."

"Are you saying that Lord God cannot take care of father?" Inge snapped.

"Not at all, but..."

"But nothing," Inge said. "No sacrifices. Unless there's something about your faith you've forgotten to tell us about, Bishop."

"Patience, Inge!" Halsten said, stepping between them. "I am certain Sverker is just trying to cater to our wishes, which is entirely proper."

Sverker snarled softly. "Perhaps we should discuss this later, Inge."

"There is nothing to discuss."

"Sverker," Halsten began.

"Son." This to Erik: "My heart grieves with you, but we must make plans to get you to Mora."

Erik shook his head: "I'm not going. We can expect no welcome there."

Halsten grinned. "I will go make your case for you, brother. When the Swedes hear me, I'm sure they'll make the right..."

"No. No, Halsten, I need you here with me."

He frowned. Ingemo turned Erik towards her, confused. "You're not....If you don't go..."

"Of course we're going," Halsten retorted. "I'm not..."

"No, we're not," Erik said a little more firmly.

"We're not giving up the throne without a fight!" Halsten shouted.

Gift-givers, well wishers, guards and all looked over. Somewhere in the distance on an otherwise cloudless, cool evening, thunder rumbled.

"We're not," Erik agreed. He looked at Sverker: "Assemble the Thing. We shall elect the next king."
 
Last edited:

Jedrek

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Good luck on this one, I'll be following :)
 

Stuyvesant

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Hey, you're back! It's good to hear from you, CatKnight! I have only read the first post, but I agree with SeanB: your writing seems just fine. I look forward to seeing how this 'little' tale spins itself. :)
 

Tapscott

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Oooh! Me likey this AAR! Keep up the good work CatKnight!
 

AON

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Nice work! I you want more pedantic knowledge, just ask. Since I've been writing in the time period myself, I have gotten a bit of knowledge, coupled with the fact that these things are easier to research if you actually speak Swedish.
 

Arilou

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Oooh, neat.And yes, early-medieval Sweden is a mess of ignorance and lack of sources :p
 

CatKnight

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Jedrek: Thanks. Happy to have you.

Stuyvesant: I was hoping you'd show up! I'm trying for something similar to 'Resurrection,' though perhaps on smaller scale. Let's see how it goes.

Tapscott: Welcome!

AON: I noticed that when working on Danish and Teuton AARs: Most of the best material is in their native tongue. While that makes sense, it can still be annoying. If you see anything that seems a little too unlikely, feel free to give me a nudge. I might be able to make adjustments.

Arilou: Definitely. The advantage of a lack of resources though is I get to be a little more creative and use the CK traits a little more than I might be able to if we were dealing with well known people.

rcrantz: Thanks and welcome!
 

CatKnight

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III. And the Geats Shall Lead

Vastergotland
Late September 1066


The Great Hall of Stenkil Thorvaldson, King of the Geats and Swedes: Normally it would be filled with servants running on this or that errand, for tonight there will be a feast honoring their king's life. Three long tables dominate the room at this time. The first, not far from the raised dais from which King Stenkil made rulings when the Vastergotland thing was not in session, was nearly ready with candles and decorated wreaths already in place. Here the royal family would sit, though the center chair would of course remain vacant: Regardless of who was named king, or jarl for that matter, claiming one's inheritance before seven days had passed simply wasn't done.

Two longer tables flanked the first, and here men and women would sit in rough order of rank or importance. Sverker, for example, as bishop and lawgiver would sit at the right table nearest the family. These tables simply weren't done, and servants should be getting them in order before guests arrive. They've been banished to the kitchens however, for the hosts have chosen that room to argue.

"This is not a good idea, brother," Halsten said urgently. "We must go to Mora! If you won't, then I will do it!"

"No," Eric said flatly. "We do not need their permission, and I don't want it."

"What does the Lawgiver say?" Inge asked, glaring at Sverker.

"Halsten is....is quite right, son," Sverker answered. "It is a matter of law...of tradition. Whosoever wishes to be king must present themselves at Mora!"

"Says who?" Eric demanded. "The Swedes? No!"

"Brother..."

"No, listen to me Halsten! You know as well as I do that our uncle covets the throne. He's made no attempt to hide that. He is strongest in Uppland: He is jarl there. Of course they will support him."

"They didn't six years ago," Halsten said.

"Six years ago he was a grieving son, and father was married to the king's daughter. Now he's had time to build his own reputation, and he can argue it's time to return the throne to Uppsala."

"So we go there and explain why he's wrong."

"Go there?" Erik gripped Halsten's shoulders. "They'll kill us!"

"They can try, brother. We'll bring men."

"Enough to defeat all the supporters he'll bring!?"

Ingemo spoke for the first time: "Erik, my brother has many faults, but he will not break a truce. Any claimant may state their case at Mora. He has to abide by that."

Erik looked at Sverker. "Why is it that only the Swedes decide?" he asked. "Are the Geats not good enough? Not smart enough?"

Sverker bristled. "No. No, it is...tradition! It is..."

"You can't even tell me why?"

"Let me think!" Sverker snapped. "I am the Lawgiver! Over a century of law, precedent, cases, in here!" he jabbed his skull. "You retain that knowledge and have it instantly available, then you can try to pressure me, boy."

"This is ridiculous," Inge began, then stopped as the priest raised his arm. Sverker's eyes searched the floor and he muttered to himself for some moments.

"We gave an oath, Erik," Sverker said finally. "An oath to your namesake, Erik the Victorious. It was he who took hostages and in exchange we promised to follow whoever shall be elected. As it turned out, his son inherited. King Olof was your grandfather's cousin, so we had no objection."

"Sixty years ago the King of Uppsala dictated terms to a defeated people. Does that mean we must always obey?"

"I think Erik has a point," Inge said.

"You too?" Halsten demanded.

"Listen now," Inge said. "These Upplanders, these 'Swedes' - they still worship the false gods. We are not bound to oaths with heathens and pagans. Further, while mother may be right about our uncle not breaking truce, that doesn't mean we can trust him or those who follow him. There may be no treachery, but nor can we expect a fair hearing."

Halsten rubbed his chin, considering.

"If we are not bound by oaths, then why should the Swedes determine who rules the Geats?" Inge continued. "No doubt in time they will come around, then we can trust their counsel again, but until then maybe it has to be the Geats who rule the Swedes."

"You're talking about a war," Ingemo said softly.

"Not if uncle sees reason," Erik said. He smirked at Sverker: "You will be the second most powerful man in Sweden, the man who elected a king."

The priest's eyes gleamed, and he rubbed his knuckle across his lower lip in thought. "Perhaps...perhaps there is precedent."

Erik turned to Halsten. "Well?"

Halsten folded his arms. "I think mother is right. There will be a fight. Still, our support is here. We should use it."



Erik clapped his brother's shoulder. "I'll send out messengers. Two weeks hence the Thing will meet."

"Two weeks?" Inge asked. "Certainly it won't take that long to gather everyone."

"I want the Eastern Geats here as well," Erik said. He interrupted Sverker: "I know it's not tradition, but if there is trouble, we must make sure they stay with us. That means making them part of the process."

Sverker grunted. "So long as their lawspeaker sees reason."

"I'll explain it to him," Halsten said with a smile. "In fact, let me go to Ostergotland and make sure they understand."

Erik stared at him for a moment, then nodded slowly.

Halsten grinned. This might still work. I have support here in the West. Perhaps I can build support with the Easterners as well.

*******