The lack of a tutorial

[swilhelm73]

So, I'm making slow progress figuring out what I am doing from AARs and people's posts here...I have to say I am really missing a tutorial...

Outside of perhaps MOO3, Vicky seems to have one of the highest learning curves I have seen. I would *strongly* suggest Paradox incorporates a tutorial via a future patch because absent that you may find many people giving up on the game long before they can understand it...

 

[Jayavarman]

It caused many bugs in previous games and would help pirates without a manual.

 

[unmerged(12244)]

Dont give up just yet,. I agree its by far the most complicated games i have ever played but by the end of the first GC i figured out the game just enough to be enjoying playing it.
Now i understand alittle more.Post alot of questions, demand a new updated FAQ with gamers questions and try a couple of GC´s just experimenting.

I know the manual might be alittle better then previously but on the other hand is this game much more complex, why the manual still lacks alot.

 

[MadHiro]

Originally posted by swilhelm73

Outside of perhaps MOO3, Vicky seems to have one of the highest learning curves I have seen.

MoO3 didn't have a learning curve. It was a vertical line. A greased, slippery vertical line that never ended.

 

[swilhelm73]

So basically, their is no tutorial because it makes the game easier to understand? Hmm, the anti-piracy angle seems a bit weak in that regard, and previous Paradox games dealt well enough with tutorial bugs, IIRC...

I'm certainly not going to give up on the game, but many people will. The game mechanics are deep and the manual only gives them the slightest coverage. It took me two hours to figure out autotrade will spend more then you can afford (to start at least) and you should not use it...

IMO, if a tutorial was nixed to prevent piracy the manual should have been *much* more in depth - explaining not just where to click to do something, but also why, and perhaps with a semi tutorial in it, ie;

1) Start a game as country x.

2) Do this this and this...notice this this and that...etc...

 

[Therlun]

i agree to swilhelm73.
people that know paradox games will surley stay with the game.

but if i imagine people that have neither played eu nor HOI im pretty sure many of them wont bother too long with it.

HOI was already pretty complex, and even with EU experience it took some time to get into it.
now if i here what more complex vicky seems to be.....

 

[unmerged(20089)]

I have to agree here. While the manual is well written and concisely goes thorugh what the game is about, it does not seem to be the kind of reference-style text one would like to have for a game of this complexity. There's not much inte the way of step-by-step-explanations on how to do something (though there is some of it). The great thing with an in-game tutorial is that it puts theory into pratice. Something may look fairly evident while reading the manual, but to put it into context and pratice in the game may not be as easy at it first seemed.

I have played quite a bit of EU and EU2 but I found myself more or less totally lost with Victoria when first starting to play it. Sat a couple of hours just clicking around trying to figure out how things may be done, but I felt like I wasn't really getting anywhere. It feels like I still have a fair amount of hours left of running the game at very easy/weakling and investigating aspects and features of the game before I can really begin to play it with some sense of aim. I'll be rereading the manual now that I've tried the game out for a while and maybe it will enlighten me in a more efficient way this time.

I really feel how fantastic the game will be once I learn how to play it properly and I most certainly won't give up on it since it looks to be one of the greatest games EVER.

However, I fear others who are less interested won't be as persistent.

My manual for "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" is over 200 pages and is in itself larger than the dvd-case in which Victoria and other games come nowadays. To think the Victoria manual is 1/4 that thick while the game is 100 times more complex.. well it's not hard to figure out it will be lacking in coverage. Or maybe not coverage, it deals with the aspects of the game one would expect, only it does so partly in a bit too superficient manner and it's hard to grasp how it all works together.

Since there is no in-game tutorial, a (large) number of step-by-step-guides in the printed manual would have been nice to have had to get started.

 

[unmerged(11486)]

I think that having real letters making up the in game text makes it too easy for pirates to understand. It should have been taken out.

A tutorial would be nice, but probably not that useful, especially if the manual is better (which it is rumored to be ) than previous Paradox games.

Steele

 

[obidunlap]

Originally posted by swilhelm73

IMO, if a tutorial was nixed to prevent piracy the manual should have been *much* more in depth - explaining not just where to click to do something, but also why, and perhaps with a semi tutorial in it, ie;

As stated by Paradox, the manual is not as detailed for two reasons. One being the limit set by the publishers on how many pages the manual could be. Second, the manual does not go into great detail because there may future changes to the game making the manual useless.

 

[unmerged(3999)]

I have to agree... I got the game today, have bought every Paradox game back to EU1, and do not really consider myself stupid - but I am shocked by how hard this game is to grasp. The manual is good at explicitly describing how many features work, which the EU/HOI manuals weren't particularly... but it doesn't really explain how everything fits together. At 52 pages, it can't possibly do that.

The first wave of buyers - who probably all know about this forum - can likely muddle through, but if there's such a thing as a "second printing" in software, perhaps one might be included.

 

[dtroiani]

The beauty of the forum is that everyone is so helpful. If you need help just come here... This is a great community...

 

[MagicBacon]

Unless of course, you happen to be suspected of piracy. Which happens to include everyone, apparently.

 

[Talmonious]

Yes the game is a bit complex. I like that. I spent like 30 minutes with the game paused just staring at different provinces and trying to figure out how to get a big picture out of all the pieces. The game may have a high learning curve but I get the idea i'll enjoy playing it even more one I get the hang of it. There are a few things that confuse the heck outta me though.

I'm playing the US in the GC, 40000 in loans debt, barely making a profit, my neighbor Texas is getting it's butt whupped..... and I couldn't be having any more fun than I am right now.

Yes, the manual could have been a bit more detailed but i'll take the decent one we got any day over the type of manual HoI had.

 

[Syt]

AFAIK a tutorial was not included because in past games they didn't quite work as intended, especially with new patches making them more and more inadequate.

Start a smaller country like Belgium or the Netherlands, or maybe the U.S., toy around, and check manual and forum, and you'll find your way around.

I admit that when I first tried to get into the game in its early beta state was kind of scary, but after a while you get the hang. Plus, there's friendly folk around here who'll help people with gameplay questions if they can.

 

[Sernaton]

Paradox would do well getting the advise on some marketing consultants.

Sam goes to the store. Never heard of Paradox before, never heard of EU2 nor HoI. Still he is interested on the perspective that this complex strategy game could bring him.

He buys the game. He opens the box and there is a manual and a CD. The manual would immediately be left aside. Nobody nowadays (except Paradoxmaniacs) read manuals. There is ALWAYS a tutorial, even in complex strategy game.

Imagine his surprise when he starts the GC without guidance! After one or two frustrating hours, Sam might decide that this was the first and last Paradox game that he has bought...

I am a paradoxmaniac, so I will read the f** manual

 

[Sernaton]

By the way, Sam has no internet connection...

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Originally posted by Sernaton
He buys the game. He opens the box and there is a manual and a CD. The manual would immediately be left aside. Nobody nowadays (except Paradoxmaniacs) read manuals. There is ALWAYS a tutorial, even in complex strategy game.

I have a different version:

Sam opens the box, picks up the manual and starts to read it since he doesn't know that the HOI manual was "less-than-perfect". Reading through the manual while playing around a bit with the game he has started, he sees that the manual does indeed explain most of the important points and that he after playing some more will start to understand most of the game.

IMHO and

Of course, lots of pitfalls in plunging into the game and e.g. starting your first one as Great Britain, tho'.

Rafiki

 

[Sernaton]

I just got my copy from the Store, so I don't give a **** for Sam anymore !

Found a store that got in store the SF english version in Munich!

 

[Paradox Interactive]

Originally posted by Sernaton
I just got my copy from the Store, so I don't give a **** for Sam anymore !

Found a store that got in store the SF english version in Munich!

Congrats!

I hope you enjoy it!


Patric

btw, poor Sam... Noone cares about him when they have received the game...

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Originally posted by Patric
btw, poor Sam... Noone cares about him when they have received the game...

Twice poor Sam; since he has no internet, he will never know that someone cared about him in the first place.....

Rafiki