The Korean mission 'Restore Goguryeo' should actually restore Goguryeo

[Sidolowka]

As the title says, the Korean mission 'Restore Goguryeo', should actually let Korea change tags to Goguryeo.

Now in the past this argument was rebutted by how Goguryeo didn't fit the game's timeline and how unrealistic it was, but now that we can reform Aksum, Lotharingia, Nubia (which I assume is the Kushite Kingdom), and Israel, I think it's time we finally leave that refutation behind us.

A lot of Korea players already tag-swap to Manchu or Japan for the better idea set + getting rid of the whole bunch of estate disaster events you have no agency in escaping, I think it's fair enough to give Korea its own formable, especially when one of its missions explicitly refers to restoring an old Empire.

Right now the mission itself has the following requirements and rewards

Requirements	Rewards
All the provinces in the following areas are owned and cored by Korea: Ningguta South Jilin Liaoning	Korea gains 25 Prestige All provinces of Korea (region) will receive the "Three Koreas United" modifier for 50 years, giving the following effects: −10% Local Development Cost +10% Local tax All provinces of Manchuria will recieve the "Korean Manchuria" modifier for 50 years, giving the following effect: −20% Culture Conversion Cost Korea gains a permanent claim on Manchuria

Instead, the mission should look something like this,

Requirements	Rewards
All the provinces in the following areas are owned and cored by Korea: Ningguta South Jilin Liaoning The culture of Gilin (#730) must either be the nation's primary culture, or an accepted culture No nations with Jurchen or Manchu culture with their capital in the Manchuria region exist	Korea gains 25 Prestige Triggers the event 'The Restoration of Goguryeo' Create Level 2 Trade Centre in Pyeongyang (#1845) Gain 4 Tax, 4 Production, 3 Manpower in Pyeongyang (#1845)

The event 'The Restoration of Goguryeo' would be something like this,

"Rejoice! For we have united not only the Korean peninsula but our ancestral lands in Manchuria. As #KINGNAME sits upon #HIS/HER throne in #CAPITAlPROVINCE, #HIS/HER subjects urge #HIM/HER to claim the mantle of the Goguryeo Empire, lest we lose our hold on our rightful land again. What shall #KINGNAME do?"

We are the descendants of Goguryeo.

Country changes to Goguryeo

Move Capital to Pyeongyang (#1845)

• Pyeongyang (#1845) renamed to "Jang'an", Capital renamed to "Jang'anseong"
• Hanseong (#735) renamed to "Wirye", Capital renamed to "Wiryeseong"
• Suwon (#4230) renamed to "Danghang", Capital renamed to "Dangseong"
• Jianzhou (#4201) renamed to "Gungnae", Capital renamed to "Gungnaeseong"
• Huncun (#2108) renamed to "Chaekseong", Capital renamed to "Chaekseong"
• Yongping (#704) renamed to "Sukgun", Capital renamed to "Sukgunseong"
• Shenyang (#726) renamed to "Hyundo", Capital renamed to "Hyundoseong"

Gain new ideas and traditions

We will found our own legacy.

Korea gains 10 prestige



The Goguryeo idea set would look something like this

Traditions		-0.05 Monthly Autonomy Change +5% Discipline
The Three Kingdoms United	Divided, the Three Kingdoms of Korea were weak, and lost their grip over the Manchurian lands to the North. Now that we have united both the Korean peninsula and the Manchurian plains, no force shall stop us.	-10% Stability Cost Modifier
The Legacy of Gwanggaeto the Great	Gwanggaeto the Great, the 19th king of Goguryeo, left a legendary legacy of conquest that lasted throughout the ages. Whilst the Korean people have long suffered from piracy in the South and nomaidc raids in the North, they have not yet forgotten those times of glory. Now that we have the power to do so, it is time to rise again.	-15% Coring Cost Modifier
A Multi-cultural Empire	Goguryeo was no monoethnic empire. Various northern tribes, called the Yemeks and the Malgals by the Koreans, were an integral part of Goguryeo's society. Now that we have brought the Manchurian peoples back under our fold, it is perhaps it would be advantageous for us to fully accept them as our own.	+1 Accepted Culture -10% Advisor Cost
Maintaining the Balance of Power	While Goguryeo's power was based in its military strength, it also relied heavily on balancing the power between its Chinese and Southern Korean neighbours to maintain the stability of the region, and collapsed when they failed to keep that balance. It is paramount that we always remember the lessons that we have learnt from our ancestors, so that we do not fall the way that they did.	+15% Improve Relations Modifier
Reorganise the Five States	The vast lands of Goguryeo are dotted with high mountains and swift rivers, complicating our administration. Let us reorganise the five ancient states to bring order to our nation again.	-15% State Maintenance Cost
Mountain People	The Goguryeo people originated in the mountainous highlands of Northern Korea, and have managed to survive off what most would find impossible. Now that we have united the flatlands of both Manchuria and Southern Korea, we shall thrive as never seen before.	+10% Production Efficiency
Lessons of the Battle of Salsu	The Battle of Salsu — the Killing River — was one that was won with a mix of both tactical genius and military might. Many remember our martial prowess to this day.	+10% Land Morale
Ambition		+15% Manpower Recovery Speed

The main theme of the idea set is a balance between the historically militaristic society of the nation and small references to its historical culture. The Goguryeo economy is going to be slightly smaller than the Korean one though (as was in history), due to losing the 10% tax, +25% domestic trade power and the -10% construction cost that Korea has.

I also saw fit that a few provinces be renamed when you form Goguryeo. These are the two former capitals — Gungnae and Jang'an — and the border forts that marked the boundaries of Goguryeo's historical extent — Chaekseong, Wiryeseong, Sukgunseong, Dangseong and Hyundoseong.

 

[Sidolowka]

Further proposals

• Once you form Goguryeo you should have an event that allows you to flip to Mahayana Buddhism.
• Maybe a culture change to alleviate Korea's awful culture group? Could either have the Korean-owned provinces in Manchuria flip to a Korean-group Malgal culture, or let Korean join the East Asian group if they take the Mandate.

 

[grommile]

I could get behind the spirit of this proposal (I haven't examined the detail) on one condition:

The starting name of tag KOR would need to be changed to Joseon

 

[Sidolowka]

I could get behind the spirit of this proposal (I haven't examined the detail) on one condition:

The starting name of tag KOR would need to be changed to Joseon

Definitely, I've suggested this too in the past several times; the suggestion seems to have fallen on deaf ears though... paradox rename korea plox

 

[TheBraveGallade]

The funny part is that the name 'korea' is basically the romanized version of goryo.

that being said, in general the change from goryro to josun is more akin to a dynastic change after a civil war then one country going kaput.

maybe the country should remain KoR but the Idea it has should be named 'Josun ideas' which has an option to change to 'Goryo ideas.'

but yeah flipping Korean into Evenki might be the easiest way to achieve the culutral thing, and would incentivise korea to go even further north in general.

 

[CarbonBoy26]

I say just drop the go part of Gogoryeo because you aren't looking at Goryeo in retrospect when you are playing as them.

 

[Sidolowka]

I say just drop the go part of Gogoryeo because you aren't looking at Goryeo in retrospect when you are playing as them.

The Go (古/고) in Goguryeo is used to differentiate Goguryeo with Goryeo, the dynasty just before Joseon. Whilst Goguryeo did call themselves Goryeo, later historians (including the ones during the EUIV timeline) would refer to them as Goguryeo so I'd say Goguryeo is the better choice.

 

[TheBraveGallade]

The Go (古/고) in Goguryeo is used to differentiate Goguryeo with Goryeo, the dynasty just before Joseon. Whilst Goguryeo did call themselves Goryeo, later historians (including the ones during the EUIV timeline) would refer to them as Goguryeo so I'd say Goguryeo is the better choice.

the funny thing is, by saying they are the descendants of goguryo, they are also trending closer to the dynasty josun replaced. which is an interesting implication consodering the political climate at the time, to be sure.

speaking of goryo, ginseng was a very important trade good of korea... the ONE thing korea actually has that everyone around the world wanted, really. i wonder if it could be implemented as a trade good of some sort.

 

[Sidolowka]

speaking of goryo, ginseng was a very important trade good of korea... the ONE thing korea actually has that everyone around the world wanted, really. i wonder if it could be implemented as a trade good of some sort.

Yes, this so much. Something similar to the addition of Cloves would be wonderful — or at least have some Korean provinces produce spice with an extra goods produced modifier like Dalaskogen or the Nile Delta.

 

[TheBraveGallade]

Yes, this so much. Something similar to the addition of Cloves would be wonderful — or at least have some Korean provinces produce spice with an extra goods produced modifier like Dalaskogen or the Nile Delta.

the main places that get it should actually the mountains/hills, then Haeju. Haeju, or more precicely, modern day Kaesung, has always been a commerce hub, and most importantly, where the korean unique Red gingseng was first mass produced. mass prodcution of the steaming technique took off the year when goryo kicked the bucket.
also commercial farming of gingseng started around 16c so thats a thing.

going back to restoring Goguryo... I personally thing at least the requirements should be lower on the liaoning area to basically just andong, maybe gaizong(or jsut 'own 2 provences'). Goguryo's, and later balhae's, main defensive fort line is along the river you see inside haicheng and shenyang on the map, and i don't thing goguryo ever held on to ningyang for any relevent amount of time, mostly they held on to andong and gaizhou.

 

[Sidolowka]

the main places that get it should actually the mountains/hills, then Haeju.

Indeed. Main candidates would be Haeju, Chungju, Cheongju and Wonju.

Haeju, or more precicely, modern day Kaesung, has always been a commerce hub, and most importantly, where the korean unique Red gingseng was first mass produced.

I'd even advocate for an event for a change in spice prices, akin to the Japanese Tea culture event that raises Tea prices.

also commercial farming of gingseng started around 16c so thats a thing.

Maybe tie it into a new mission tree branch? Something similar to Saxony's porcelain missions and Bohemia's glass-related one. Change a few of the mountain/highlands provinces in Korea to produce spices, and when they're developed up to a certain point and have workshops, fire the aforementioned event and give a permanent +20% goods produced modifier to all spice producing provinces in the Korea region.

going back to restoring Goguryo... I personally thing at least the requirements should be lower on the liaoning area to basically just andong, maybe gaizong(or jsut 'own 2 provences').

That is a valid stance, but my judgement is that if you want to reform Goguryeo, you should be able to challenge whoever is the main power in China, just like they did at their prime. Kinda like how you need more provinces to reform Byzantium than the ones they start off with in 1444.

 

[Koramei]

This maybe deserves a different thread at this point, but they could really do some (in a relative sense) interesting things with ginseng. If anything it was even more important to the Jurchen than in Korea; before the Qing conquests, Jianzhou organized gathering it as a royal monopoly, and I've seen it argued it was straight up one of the royal house's most important sources of income even during early Qing rule, and a major part of how they were able to finance the conquests -- along with sable fur and pearls it was one of (and the most important) only really 3 commodities exported from Manchuria. It was also a source of pretty frequent annoyance between the two nations; poachers from both would cross into the other to illegally harvest it. Ginseng and Borderland is an interesting read about this stuff if people are curious.

Incidentally, the tea province in Gyeongsang is actually supposed to represent ginseng; when Korea got the big overhaul during MoH I hastily made a suggestion thread because it seemed like nothing was going to change there unless someone said something, and didn't really take the time to fit in the trade goods as diligently as I maybe should have. My logic was... ginseng can kinda be made into a tea? And since it was a key export good, a port seemed like an okay place for it? But in retrospect mountains would have been much better, and spices are definitely more appropriate than tea -- it didn't really occur to me spices could be put outside of the tropics.

 

[TheBraveGallade]

This maybe deserves a different thread at this point, but they could really do some (in a relative sense) interesting things with ginseng. If anything it was even more important to the Jurchen than in Korea; before the Qing conquests, Jianzhou organized gathering it as a royal monopoly, and I've seen it argued it was straight up one of the royal house's most important sources of income even during early Qing rule, and a major part of how they were able to finance the conquests -- along with sable fur and pearls it was one of (and the most important) only really 3 commodities exported from Manchuria. It was also a source of pretty frequent annoyance between the two nations; poachers from both would cross into the other to illegally harvest it. Ginseng and Borderland is an interesting read about this stuff if people are curious.

Incidentally, the tea province in Gyeongsang is actually supposed to represent ginseng; when Korea got the big overhaul during MoH I hastily made a suggestion thread because it seemed like nothing was going to change there unless someone said something, and didn't really take the time to fit in the trade goods as diligently as I maybe should have. My logic was... ginseng can kinda be made into a tea? And since it was a key export good, a port seemed like an okay place for it? But in retrospect mountains would have been much better, and spices are definitely more appropriate than tea -- it didn't really occur to me spices could be put outside of the tropics.

yep, gingseng, while available elsewhere like a differenct species in southern china and another species in north america, is kind of a seperate thing from tea, spices, and whatnot. and as said before, haeju (specifically, kaesung and its surroundings) was the gingseng hub. gingseng is heavily tied to korean history (and i include most of manchurian peoples in that since they were under goguryo rule for 10 centuries).

At any rate, manchu gingseng declined once qing took power since the qing made manchuria basically a 'sacred ground' of sorts, and becasue korean red gingseng(which is unique to korean merchants) was far better. korean red gingseng fetched 10 times the price of others throughout the european exploration/trade age.

 

[Sidolowka]

This maybe deserves a different thread at this point, but they could really do some (in a relative sense) interesting things with ginseng.

yep, gingseng, while available elsewhere like a differenct species in southern china and another species in north america, is kind of a seperate thing from tea, spices, and whatnot.

Korea and Ginseng

So my Reform Goguryeo thread gave birth to an interesting idea. speaking of goryo, ginseng was a very important trade good of korea... the ONE thing korea actually has that everyone around the world wanted, really. i wonder if it could be...

forum.paradoxplaza.com