The Knights -> Kingdom of Jerusalem

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Bisham

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WOW Hager that sounds like you had a great start. I've also thought about Vassalizing Byzantium but I figured it would cause me to go to war with the Ottomans and I would lose horribly. How did you get Poland allied? Only strong nation I could ever manage to ally was Venice.

I always thought that the only way to take the three provinces you need was you had to hope the Ottos went to war against the Mamluks early enough that you could snipe them and core/convert them in time before the reformation started.
 

knoddy

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you can ally large nations like poland and Austria, usually by getting yourself into the balkans, I have a save from 1.7 somewhere where I went after Ragusa, ended with me controlling all of the balkans allied to venice austria and poland and getting ready to take on the Ottomans.
 

Chimerae

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I also tried a knights run, as soon as I conquered cyprus, my only ally venice became hostile since they took the 'conquer cyprus' mission. Ottomans took the 'attack knights bastion' mission right after annexing byzantium in 1447. Couple of years later they attack and crush me...
 

Nikolaz72

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There is a bug it seems. When you ally venice and go to war with Serbia dragging in Byzantium- venice will join but they wont make any active efforts to attack. They'll just stand in place doing nothing.

Any fix?
 

hager

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In 1.7, I could pretty reliably blow up the Berber nations using the window created by Iberia. I haven't looked at how the North African alliances shake out in 1.8, but that's probably worth a peek. Especially with the Ottomans no longer in Turko-Semetic, you can potentially really abuse the AE against that culture group if you get the ball rolling. Double annex cost on the Berber ideas is a bit of a drag, but maybe you could march some of those suckers and effectively use them + Venice to dogpile the Mamluks.

The berber nations are a web of alliances and guarantees. But it is an excellent idea. Tunis should be able to vassalize easily with the help of Venice. Then just feed it the rest of the berber nations and wait for the inevitable Ottomans-Mamluk war. Will try it my next run.

I also tried a knights run, as soon as I conquered cyprus, my only ally venice became hostile since they took the 'conquer cyprus' mission. Ottomans took the 'attack knights bastion' mission right after annexing byzantium in 1447. Couple of years later they attack and crush me...

Cyprus should only be conquered after ~1471 when Venice loses its mission. It could on the other hand be a good idea to keep it as a way to get to the Mamluks since they guarantee it. With the help of Venice's navy it can be sieged easily (if they don't fuck up of course). Then just sit back and let the war score mount up.

There is a bug it seems. When you ally venice and go to war with Serbia dragging in Byzantium- venice will join but they wont make any active efforts to attack. They'll just stand in place doing nothing.

Any fix?

Venice fought Byzantium in my games. Byzantium usually station its troops in Morea making you able to siege Constantinopel without a fight.
 

hager

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Managed to form it going the Balkans route. Allied Venice, vassalized Serbia + Byzantium and waited for a good moment to strike. Mamluks vassalized Cyprus so used that as a wargoal to rack up the war score. Mamluks sieged Naxos with 20k which was later stuck when its fleet got sunk. With only 18k left on the mainland the rest was easy. Gotta get lucky sometimes!

http://imgur.com/a/eeoWz
 
Last edited:

thErgonomic

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I also had luck with the Balkans route and thanks to the fact that Mams got a third of their forces trapped Naxos when I tried to grab Cypros I was able to steamroll through Mams forces with Venice's forces that landed at the border of Tunis. Took the lands forces Jerusalem instead of Cypros. My only complaint now is that my lands in the Balkans are distant overseas now apparently.
 

hennning

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Tried this for like 20 times now. They amount of luck needed for this to work is just insane. That together with the worst AI ever makes it so freaking hard.

I quickly realized that you needed to start the game with a No CB war against either Ragusa or Serbia. I usually wait for the Alliance with Venice and then go for either of them. By that time Serbia has started attacked Bosnia, so attacking Ragusa usually is my starting point. Annex them and then claim Serbia and attack them. If you are fast you can vassal them and take over the war against Bosnia.

That usually goes well with a few quick tries. Also you need a decent Grandmaster, 3 or more is definitely desirable, almost required.

After that hell starts. As many other already said, you need to wait for Venice claim to end, otherwise they just break alliance. Around 1571 you can start the war against Cyprys. And then the worst kind of AI shows it's true form. Venice sometimes just sits around with their Navy, either at home or blockading some Mamluk province with all their Galleys. Giving Mamluks the opportunity to whipe out the rest of their navy. A reload usually fixes this but then Venice starts sending out suicide boats at Mamluks whiping out their own navy entirely.

Also Venice tends to send some small 8 stacks into Mamluk mainland into their 30-stacks.

And then there is the Ottomans. In all my games I have seen them attack Mamluks once. Even when they have the Levant quest they just wipe out small nations and tends to expand north into Serbia. Your only chance is to wait for Mamluks to attack some other nation using all their manpower, that happens once per game at max.

I did try to start as Cyprys and managed to get alliance with Aragon since you can Royal Marriage. But Aragon won't join any war against Mamluks because of Distant War. Also allied France as The Knights but same there, distant war and won't join. So your only ally that will actually ever help you against the Mamluks are Venice.


I did see someone recommending to vassal Byzantine. I never did that since I thought that would just get Ottomans up my ass. But I will try that since they are the only vassal you can have that has a navy to help out.


So my next try will probably be to attack Serbia when you are attacking Bosnia. Using Venice to vassal both Byzantine and Serbia. By the time you are done with Byzantine, Serbia has probably already wiped out Bosnia, giving you 2 strong vassals, one with a decent fleet. I will probably take Zeta to get closer to Austria and Poland to get an alliance. Then wait for 1471 when Venice's claim ends. By that time maybe diplo annex Serbia if possible.


By the way, what approach do you have with the conversion? I have always taken Religious Ideas and then rushed Missionary Strength. But I saw someone instead rushing Admin tech 8 where you get better missionary strength. What is the best approach there?
 

Pellucid

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I've found that the only nation I can seem to ally reliably is Venice and they can help me take Cyrpus. But if I take it before their claim time runs out they will drop the alliance and go hostile. Which means waiting until after roughly 1471 before I can snatch the island so as to not lose the most important ally I can get. I don't want to waste this time and I need more income/force limits so I tried to take the Balkans to mixed success. I can take Ragusa fairly easily with a no-CB war, but I can't core the province because it is 169 distance away from Rhodes and the starting max core distance is 160 until Diplo Tech 7. I also tried abandoning Rhodes and moving my capital to Ragusa but it says I can't core it since I don't have any cores anymore (closest is 99999 away).
You can avoid them going hostile by camping a diplomat improving relations on them. A nation will almost never go hostile as long as you can keep relations at 100+. Venice wants Cyprus to the tune of ~-90 IIRC, so you can counter this by having max improved relations, guaranteeing, and giving military access.