There is the Burma road, and apparently in can sustain invasions in both directions.
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Nice update. Caught a nice vibe. There seems to be quite a few rivers coming up, and they could pose a challenge if the Japs build up behind them. Could become quite messy.
You get the impression that the Auk is just waiting for the other shoe to drop, as surely it must. I would be slightly more hopeful about the RAF, surely self interest will get them involved as the war goes on. With Japan out of strat range they'd have to send more medium bombers or let the Army and Royal Navy take all the credit, and that would never do! 
Well, now the door is open, let's go till... let's be humble...
Tokio?
They'll built the roads on the march. They're Britons, after all!
Tokio?
You cannot just march to China through the mountains of Yunnan!
There are no roads!
They'll built the roads on the march.
They're Britons, after all!
Chapter 175, HMS Prince of Wales, off Shantou, 1025 local 26 February 1942
The piercing noise of the general alarm threw Vice Admiral Vian’s concentration as he continued to jot down the ‘supercession’ instructions. After an eventful month of war the Admiralty had decided to augment the squadron, increasing its size and sending out Admiral Cunningham as theatre second-in-command. Vian, a fiercely independent man, had been offered a new commission; take charge of the new ‘Liaison Squadron’ that was designed to defend the scattered island possessions deep into the Pacific, and to keep an indentifiably British presence ‘in the eyes’ of the Americans. Scowling at the disturbance, that was likely to be yet another false alarm on this probing patrol, Vian grabbed his cap and stalked to the bridge.
Vian reached the bridge of HMS Prince of Wales and after peering into the distance on the port bridge wing went straight to the chart table, where he found Captain Leach, Prince of Wales’ urbane CO, examining the chart that showed the speculated position of the recently discovered Japanese ships.
“Captain, you’ve been busy.” Vian was an extraordinarily waspish man, prone to acerbic comments and fierce opinions. But Leach, the elegant, very proper Captain had managed to penetrate the prickly exterior and discovered the sharp tactical mind within.
“I have Sir. Liverpool has spotted a small squadron of Japanese light cruisers at 055, and on heading 225. Range, approximately twenty miles from ourselves, Valiant and Nelson.”
“Nothing nastier?”
“Apparently nothing, Sir.”
“Signal to Liverpool and Devonshire, investigate and intercept cruisers bearing 055. Nelson and Renown to provide support.”
“What about Valiant?” Leach, like Vian, was worried that the cruisers were protected by bigger ships.
“She’ll close with us. Nelson and Renown can lead and we’ll provide the second column.” Vian wondered at his own pairing of Nelson with Renown, given Nelson’s slower speed, but shrugged off his concerns. In terms of gunnery Nelson was his best ship; good and proven 16” guns, a wonderful (if inelegant) design that made her very stable, and a good CO. Her only drawback was that lack of speed; unlike Prince of Wales, which could manage 28 knots, Nelson had only eight boilers, two shafts, and a lot less power than Valiant or even Renown (which in her heyday could make 30 knots, though her recent performance had signalled the need for some maintenance). The pairing of Nelson with Renown would slow the battlecruiser to keep her in concert with the other ship. Vian had done the same to the Prince of Wales, shackling her to a slower ship (Valiant could only make 24 knots). He bit his lip, not in worry but irritation with himself. “Belay that. Valiant to accompany Renown. They are to make best use of their speed. Nelson and Prince of Wales to continue on our original course until identity confirmed. Anything on radar?”
“Potentially bigger contacts further out, could be a convoy to China Sir.”
“Hmmn,” Vian grunted as he turned to watch Renown, accompanied by Valiant, moving off to support the cruisers.
“Aye Sir,” Leach wandered to gaze at the deploying squadron. Renown, the elderly battlecruiser, was completing a turn to port and after a cheery ‘good luck’ from Prince of Wales joined Valiant in intercepting the Japanese ships.
“Signal to Admiralty. Am engaging Japanese cruisers, HMS Valiant and HMS Renown in the lead.” Leach was meanwhile preparing his ship.
“Officer of the Watch, time for ‘action stations’ I think. Get the engineers alerted, I’ll be needing full ahead shortly. Yeoman!”
“Yes Sir?”
“Hoist our Battle Ensigns. Let’s go in colours flying!”
The two lead battleships, their destroyers screening the Northern flank (for that was where any Japanese reinforcements would come), Devonshire and Liverpool in close support, steamed steadily towards the Japanese squadron. So far the Japanese were showing an aloof attitude to Vian and his dispositions: they had yet to react.
Leach was handed a signal which must have been grave: Vian was impressed at how quickly the blood seemed to drain from his face. “Sir, you had better see this. It’s from HMS Argus Sir. Our spotter planes report Japanese battleships to the North.”
“That explains the radar contacts, to the North and East. Which is exactly where we’ve sent the squadron,” Vian said bitterly. “Damn!”
“Might I suggest, Sir, that we warn Valiant?”
“Do it,” Vian said tersely. He knew that he had blundered, that he should have waited until his carrier had closed with the rest of the squadron, but had sent two capital ships steaming straight towards the Japanese Fleet (in true Nelsonic fashion, he thought) and was now committed. He considered disengaging, using his destroyers to screen the withdrawal of the capital ships. But at this stage he had to do what every Royal Navy Admiral had to do; win the engagement decisively.
“Sir, ‘A’ turret HMS Valiant reports that she is in range.”
Vian, Leach at his side, stalked to gaze at the unfolding drama.
“Tell them to open fire when both ships are in range. Tell them that we are closing, and will provide gunnery support when we can. When is that expected?”
“Four minutes, Sir. Nelson’s lagging behind. We are ready to fire when in range.”
“Very good. Keep a sharp lookout for Japanese aircraft. Inform me the instant the destoyers sight anything.”
HMS Renown commenced firing at 1051, firing into what to Vian and Leach appeared to be nothing but the lingering morning’s mist. But, the range closing, Vian thought he could make out a column of smoke beyond the dark shapes of his advanced column of HMS Valiant, HMS Renown, HMS Devonshire, HMS Liverpool. Further North, yet more destroyers screened for any Japanese submarines.
“Well done Renown, you’ve found the range, you’re straddling the targets. Signal to Valiant, you are in range, you should be firing. Sort it out!”
Prince of Wales and Valiant continued on their constant heading. Vian was tense, desperately worried that they were still confused as to the strength and identity of the enemy. Leach, ever the competent Flag Captain, came quietly, without fuss, to his side.
“Valiant reports that she has been straddled by enemy gunnery. No damage yet but she is affecting a sharp turn to starboard to try and throw them off. Their own fire is falling short. Renown claims to straddling the Japanese battleships.”
“What about the enemy destroyers?”
“Sir, there is one small flotilla here” he pointed at a location to the South of the main Japanese Fleet.
“Trying to drive us into the guns of the battleships?”
“I believe so, Sir.”
“Nelson closest, have her make a sudden turn to starboard, give them something to think about. Our destroyers to support. Time until we can fire?
The Navigation Officer answered. “Two minutes, Sir!”
Vian and Leach then peered at Nelson, who turned out of the small column of ships and closed on the small destroyers in the distance. Now, Vian prayed, fire now, scatter their destroyers. He knew that the was in danger of losing control of this engagement, responding to events rather than dictating them. As he watched from the starboard bridge wing, Nelson fired her nine guns at the distant Japanese destroyers.
Watching the gunnery from Nelson he suspected that it had been an efficient salvo. Returning to the bridge he could Leach smiling. “Sir, Nelson reports that they have sunk or severely damaged what is either a small cruiser or a destroyer and a number of other vessels. But she intends to switch her fire to a...”
Leach was silenced by a sudden burst of light. A huge, boiling plume of oily smoke rose from the sea where Valiant and Renown should have been manoeuvring to tackle the Japanese battleships further off. A few seconds later the rolling retort reached Prince of Wales, the dull sounds liking uncannily like the banging of a drum. Vian felt sick to the pit of his stomach.
Vian and Leach swept their binoculars over the panorama before them. Leach spotted the dark shape emerging from the smoky waterline first.
“It’s Valiant Sir, and she’s still firing! Good show Valiant!”
“What about Renown?” Vian now had one plan: unite the two columns and retire behind destroyers and smoke. A daring man, he realised that his force had blundered into a powerful Japanese fleet.
A yeoman entered and silently handed Leach another signal. This time Leach didn’t bother to hide his reaction. “Sir, from Liverpool, regret to report that HMS Renown is gone. We have damage to for’ard turrets and fuelling system.”
The effect upon the bridge crew was instant. The Navigator and Officer of the Watch both looked up in shocked silence from the chart table. The ratings were more demonstrative.
“Renown’s gone? Did you hear that? The Old Renown’s gone!”
Vian turned to stare at Valiant, still firing proudly at the closing Japanese warships and being straddled again Both Prince of Wales and Nelson were almost in range and so Vian ordered the ships to execute a sweeping turn to port that would align them with the vulnerable Valiant.
“We’re opening fire now Sir.”
“Get on with it,” Vian said angrily. “And what’s Nelson doing?”
Actually Valiant fired first, her deafening salvo being fired a good ten seconds before Prince of Wales’. The Japanese response was almost one of total indifference as they maintained their fire upon Valiant, columns of water showing where their fire was falling all around the old battleship.
“Signal from Valiant, heavy damage, all but one turret out of action!”
“Get us there, John, quick as you can, Nelson and POW to fire as soon as you can. How long?”
“Coming up on Valiant now, Sir. Look! She’s listing to port.”
Vian stood on the starboard bridge wing as Prince of Wales passed the stricken HMS Valiant. She was already showing a pronounced list to port and had stopped dead in the water. Vian prayed that she didn’t capsize. Come on then you bastards, finish us off, let this be over, Vian thought sourly. He looked at Leach, who seemed to have the same curious thought. He was now deeply concerned, and was working out how he could extricate the stricken Valiant, as well as any survivors from Renown, and retire behind his cruisers and destroyers.
“Signal to Moari, make smoke and cover Nelson.” Having united his two columns, he had effectively lost the fighting power of one column as Renown had been destroyed and Valiant severely damaged. Nelson and Prince of Wales were still firing back at the Japanese but Vian was already thinking of extricating his battered Fleet from this battle. But his plans weren’t needed: the Japanese weren’t pressing home the attack. To Vian it made no sense. Why haven’t they exploited their advantage?
The squadron of Swordfish aircraft answered the question, promptly followed by Fulmars and yet more Swordfish. As they commenced their bombing runs another signal arrived. Leach read it out to a Vian still looking with concern at the stricken HMS Valiant.
“Sir, from Illustrious. Swordfish aircraft will assist your action, we will rendezvous with you at 1200 and accompany you back to Hong Kong. Godspeed, CINC. It’s from Somerville, Sir!”
“Signal to Nelson, disengage and retire behind destroyer screen. Liverpool and Devonshire to follow you after collecting survivors of HMS Renown. We will assist Valiant. BZ to Nelson.” A ‘BZ’ was a signal of Bravo Zulu, meaning ‘well done’. Vian turned to Leach. “Get us back to Valiant, see what assistance we can offer.” Another flight of Swordfish, these ones from Indomitable, rumbled overhead. “Today’s honours to the Fleet Air Arm I think.”
[Game Effect] – A fairly decent BB fleet under Vian stumbles over a large Japanese BB fleet (2SHBBs and 2BBs and escorts). HMS Nelson manages to knock out a DD flotilla but Renown is lost to the Nagato. To be honest I was overjoyed when Somerville’s carriers arrived and drove them off, because after the crippling of Valiant I don’t think that PoW and Nelson would have been enough to win the engagement. The results of the “Battle of Shantou” are as follows:
So who won the battle? Well, I think it probably will be a hotly debated stalemate for the RN – though the Japs actually retired first, the British force staggers home under destroyer and FAA cover to Hong Kong. A few CLs and a DD flotilla is not impressive gain for the loss of a BC, and with Valiant needing repairs in Hong Kong/Singapore (actually I think she’ll have to go home) Vian’s squadron (soon to be added to a new formation from Britain) is greatly weakened. Vian, who acted well to recover from his blunder of not waiting for a reconaissance from HMS Argus, will learn from this incident: he was a very capable commander and one of my favourites from WW2 and when this happened I was struck with Wellington’s words after Albuera: “that won’t do, now go and write me a victory”. But sadly I couldn’t, and I think that Vian has been bloody lucky.
In many ways the Royal Navy is very lucky that the formative experience, the battle from which it must learn if it is to win the war, was such a minor affair. True Renown has gone, but if the IJN had managed to sink Prince of Wales or Nelson (or even Valiant) then the effects would have been worse. As it is, learning the importance of air power at the cost of an ancient BC is for me a decent outcome for the RN compared to what it took in reality. Though a small battle by what will come later, Shantou is an important one. Strategically, the days of sending battleships steaming with impunity up the Formosa Straits are over. Operation Hussar, the plan to draw out the IJN and knock ‘em out, is clearly failing.
Oh, and the eagle-eyed of you will note that the photo of the stricken Valiant is actually a photo of the stricken Barham.
DonnieBaseball: It’s a slow start, but a solid one.
Enewald: I get your point, hence the bit emphasising that it was a cautious, slow advance. The Army has yet to grasp how logistically difficult this is going to be.
Trekaddict: The British Army has spent two years patiently building up its supply chain in India and Burma. An advance of this nature is not beyond its capabilities, slow and steady as it is.
Sir Humphrey: Good point, and moutains and rivers combined will pose a real problem for Auchinleck.
Trekaddict: Hopefully...
El Pip: The Auk is right to be careful, and the RAF will eventually do well, it is just adjusting to war as the other two Services are.
Kurt_Steiner: Sadly not, trouble is on the way.
The piercing noise of the general alarm threw Vice Admiral Vian’s concentration as he continued to jot down the ‘supercession’ instructions. After an eventful month of war the Admiralty had decided to augment the squadron, increasing its size and sending out Admiral Cunningham as theatre second-in-command. Vian, a fiercely independent man, had been offered a new commission; take charge of the new ‘Liaison Squadron’ that was designed to defend the scattered island possessions deep into the Pacific, and to keep an indentifiably British presence ‘in the eyes’ of the Americans. Scowling at the disturbance, that was likely to be yet another false alarm on this probing patrol, Vian grabbed his cap and stalked to the bridge.
Vian reached the bridge of HMS Prince of Wales and after peering into the distance on the port bridge wing went straight to the chart table, where he found Captain Leach, Prince of Wales’ urbane CO, examining the chart that showed the speculated position of the recently discovered Japanese ships.
“Captain, you’ve been busy.” Vian was an extraordinarily waspish man, prone to acerbic comments and fierce opinions. But Leach, the elegant, very proper Captain had managed to penetrate the prickly exterior and discovered the sharp tactical mind within.
“I have Sir. Liverpool has spotted a small squadron of Japanese light cruisers at 055, and on heading 225. Range, approximately twenty miles from ourselves, Valiant and Nelson.”
“Nothing nastier?”
“Apparently nothing, Sir.”
“Signal to Liverpool and Devonshire, investigate and intercept cruisers bearing 055. Nelson and Renown to provide support.”
“What about Valiant?” Leach, like Vian, was worried that the cruisers were protected by bigger ships.
“She’ll close with us. Nelson and Renown can lead and we’ll provide the second column.” Vian wondered at his own pairing of Nelson with Renown, given Nelson’s slower speed, but shrugged off his concerns. In terms of gunnery Nelson was his best ship; good and proven 16” guns, a wonderful (if inelegant) design that made her very stable, and a good CO. Her only drawback was that lack of speed; unlike Prince of Wales, which could manage 28 knots, Nelson had only eight boilers, two shafts, and a lot less power than Valiant or even Renown (which in her heyday could make 30 knots, though her recent performance had signalled the need for some maintenance). The pairing of Nelson with Renown would slow the battlecruiser to keep her in concert with the other ship. Vian had done the same to the Prince of Wales, shackling her to a slower ship (Valiant could only make 24 knots). He bit his lip, not in worry but irritation with himself. “Belay that. Valiant to accompany Renown. They are to make best use of their speed. Nelson and Prince of Wales to continue on our original course until identity confirmed. Anything on radar?”
“Potentially bigger contacts further out, could be a convoy to China Sir.”
“Hmmn,” Vian grunted as he turned to watch Renown, accompanied by Valiant, moving off to support the cruisers.
“Aye Sir,” Leach wandered to gaze at the deploying squadron. Renown, the elderly battlecruiser, was completing a turn to port and after a cheery ‘good luck’ from Prince of Wales joined Valiant in intercepting the Japanese ships.
“Signal to Admiralty. Am engaging Japanese cruisers, HMS Valiant and HMS Renown in the lead.” Leach was meanwhile preparing his ship.
“Officer of the Watch, time for ‘action stations’ I think. Get the engineers alerted, I’ll be needing full ahead shortly. Yeoman!”
“Yes Sir?”
“Hoist our Battle Ensigns. Let’s go in colours flying!”
The two lead battleships, their destroyers screening the Northern flank (for that was where any Japanese reinforcements would come), Devonshire and Liverpool in close support, steamed steadily towards the Japanese squadron. So far the Japanese were showing an aloof attitude to Vian and his dispositions: they had yet to react.
Leach was handed a signal which must have been grave: Vian was impressed at how quickly the blood seemed to drain from his face. “Sir, you had better see this. It’s from HMS Argus Sir. Our spotter planes report Japanese battleships to the North.”
“That explains the radar contacts, to the North and East. Which is exactly where we’ve sent the squadron,” Vian said bitterly. “Damn!”
“Might I suggest, Sir, that we warn Valiant?”
“Do it,” Vian said tersely. He knew that he had blundered, that he should have waited until his carrier had closed with the rest of the squadron, but had sent two capital ships steaming straight towards the Japanese Fleet (in true Nelsonic fashion, he thought) and was now committed. He considered disengaging, using his destroyers to screen the withdrawal of the capital ships. But at this stage he had to do what every Royal Navy Admiral had to do; win the engagement decisively.
“Sir, ‘A’ turret HMS Valiant reports that she is in range.”
Vian, Leach at his side, stalked to gaze at the unfolding drama.
“Tell them to open fire when both ships are in range. Tell them that we are closing, and will provide gunnery support when we can. When is that expected?”
“Four minutes, Sir. Nelson’s lagging behind. We are ready to fire when in range.”
“Very good. Keep a sharp lookout for Japanese aircraft. Inform me the instant the destoyers sight anything.”
HMS Renown commenced firing at 1051, firing into what to Vian and Leach appeared to be nothing but the lingering morning’s mist. But, the range closing, Vian thought he could make out a column of smoke beyond the dark shapes of his advanced column of HMS Valiant, HMS Renown, HMS Devonshire, HMS Liverpool. Further North, yet more destroyers screened for any Japanese submarines.
“Well done Renown, you’ve found the range, you’re straddling the targets. Signal to Valiant, you are in range, you should be firing. Sort it out!”
Prince of Wales and Valiant continued on their constant heading. Vian was tense, desperately worried that they were still confused as to the strength and identity of the enemy. Leach, ever the competent Flag Captain, came quietly, without fuss, to his side.
“Valiant reports that she has been straddled by enemy gunnery. No damage yet but she is affecting a sharp turn to starboard to try and throw them off. Their own fire is falling short. Renown claims to straddling the Japanese battleships.”
“What about the enemy destroyers?”
“Sir, there is one small flotilla here” he pointed at a location to the South of the main Japanese Fleet.
“Trying to drive us into the guns of the battleships?”
“I believe so, Sir.”
“Nelson closest, have her make a sudden turn to starboard, give them something to think about. Our destroyers to support. Time until we can fire?
The Navigation Officer answered. “Two minutes, Sir!”
Vian and Leach then peered at Nelson, who turned out of the small column of ships and closed on the small destroyers in the distance. Now, Vian prayed, fire now, scatter their destroyers. He knew that the was in danger of losing control of this engagement, responding to events rather than dictating them. As he watched from the starboard bridge wing, Nelson fired her nine guns at the distant Japanese destroyers.
Watching the gunnery from Nelson he suspected that it had been an efficient salvo. Returning to the bridge he could Leach smiling. “Sir, Nelson reports that they have sunk or severely damaged what is either a small cruiser or a destroyer and a number of other vessels. But she intends to switch her fire to a...”
Leach was silenced by a sudden burst of light. A huge, boiling plume of oily smoke rose from the sea where Valiant and Renown should have been manoeuvring to tackle the Japanese battleships further off. A few seconds later the rolling retort reached Prince of Wales, the dull sounds liking uncannily like the banging of a drum. Vian felt sick to the pit of his stomach.
Vian and Leach swept their binoculars over the panorama before them. Leach spotted the dark shape emerging from the smoky waterline first.
“It’s Valiant Sir, and she’s still firing! Good show Valiant!”
“What about Renown?” Vian now had one plan: unite the two columns and retire behind destroyers and smoke. A daring man, he realised that his force had blundered into a powerful Japanese fleet.
A yeoman entered and silently handed Leach another signal. This time Leach didn’t bother to hide his reaction. “Sir, from Liverpool, regret to report that HMS Renown is gone. We have damage to for’ard turrets and fuelling system.”
The effect upon the bridge crew was instant. The Navigator and Officer of the Watch both looked up in shocked silence from the chart table. The ratings were more demonstrative.
“Renown’s gone? Did you hear that? The Old Renown’s gone!”
Vian turned to stare at Valiant, still firing proudly at the closing Japanese warships and being straddled again Both Prince of Wales and Nelson were almost in range and so Vian ordered the ships to execute a sweeping turn to port that would align them with the vulnerable Valiant.
“We’re opening fire now Sir.”
“Get on with it,” Vian said angrily. “And what’s Nelson doing?”
Actually Valiant fired first, her deafening salvo being fired a good ten seconds before Prince of Wales’. The Japanese response was almost one of total indifference as they maintained their fire upon Valiant, columns of water showing where their fire was falling all around the old battleship.
“Signal from Valiant, heavy damage, all but one turret out of action!”
“Get us there, John, quick as you can, Nelson and POW to fire as soon as you can. How long?”
“Coming up on Valiant now, Sir. Look! She’s listing to port.”
Vian stood on the starboard bridge wing as Prince of Wales passed the stricken HMS Valiant. She was already showing a pronounced list to port and had stopped dead in the water. Vian prayed that she didn’t capsize. Come on then you bastards, finish us off, let this be over, Vian thought sourly. He looked at Leach, who seemed to have the same curious thought. He was now deeply concerned, and was working out how he could extricate the stricken Valiant, as well as any survivors from Renown, and retire behind his cruisers and destroyers.
“Signal to Moari, make smoke and cover Nelson.” Having united his two columns, he had effectively lost the fighting power of one column as Renown had been destroyed and Valiant severely damaged. Nelson and Prince of Wales were still firing back at the Japanese but Vian was already thinking of extricating his battered Fleet from this battle. But his plans weren’t needed: the Japanese weren’t pressing home the attack. To Vian it made no sense. Why haven’t they exploited their advantage?
The squadron of Swordfish aircraft answered the question, promptly followed by Fulmars and yet more Swordfish. As they commenced their bombing runs another signal arrived. Leach read it out to a Vian still looking with concern at the stricken HMS Valiant.
“Sir, from Illustrious. Swordfish aircraft will assist your action, we will rendezvous with you at 1200 and accompany you back to Hong Kong. Godspeed, CINC. It’s from Somerville, Sir!”
“Signal to Nelson, disengage and retire behind destroyer screen. Liverpool and Devonshire to follow you after collecting survivors of HMS Renown. We will assist Valiant. BZ to Nelson.” A ‘BZ’ was a signal of Bravo Zulu, meaning ‘well done’. Vian turned to Leach. “Get us back to Valiant, see what assistance we can offer.” Another flight of Swordfish, these ones from Indomitable, rumbled overhead. “Today’s honours to the Fleet Air Arm I think.”
[Game Effect] – A fairly decent BB fleet under Vian stumbles over a large Japanese BB fleet (2SHBBs and 2BBs and escorts). HMS Nelson manages to knock out a DD flotilla but Renown is lost to the Nagato. To be honest I was overjoyed when Somerville’s carriers arrived and drove them off, because after the crippling of Valiant I don’t think that PoW and Nelson would have been enough to win the engagement. The results of the “Battle of Shantou” are as follows:
So who won the battle? Well, I think it probably will be a hotly debated stalemate for the RN – though the Japs actually retired first, the British force staggers home under destroyer and FAA cover to Hong Kong. A few CLs and a DD flotilla is not impressive gain for the loss of a BC, and with Valiant needing repairs in Hong Kong/Singapore (actually I think she’ll have to go home) Vian’s squadron (soon to be added to a new formation from Britain) is greatly weakened. Vian, who acted well to recover from his blunder of not waiting for a reconaissance from HMS Argus, will learn from this incident: he was a very capable commander and one of my favourites from WW2 and when this happened I was struck with Wellington’s words after Albuera: “that won’t do, now go and write me a victory”. But sadly I couldn’t, and I think that Vian has been bloody lucky.
In many ways the Royal Navy is very lucky that the formative experience, the battle from which it must learn if it is to win the war, was such a minor affair. True Renown has gone, but if the IJN had managed to sink Prince of Wales or Nelson (or even Valiant) then the effects would have been worse. As it is, learning the importance of air power at the cost of an ancient BC is for me a decent outcome for the RN compared to what it took in reality. Though a small battle by what will come later, Shantou is an important one. Strategically, the days of sending battleships steaming with impunity up the Formosa Straits are over. Operation Hussar, the plan to draw out the IJN and knock ‘em out, is clearly failing.
Oh, and the eagle-eyed of you will note that the photo of the stricken Valiant is actually a photo of the stricken Barham.
DonnieBaseball: It’s a slow start, but a solid one.
Enewald: I get your point, hence the bit emphasising that it was a cautious, slow advance. The Army has yet to grasp how logistically difficult this is going to be.
Trekaddict: The British Army has spent two years patiently building up its supply chain in India and Burma. An advance of this nature is not beyond its capabilities, slow and steady as it is.
Sir Humphrey: Good point, and moutains and rivers combined will pose a real problem for Auchinleck.
Trekaddict: Hopefully...
El Pip: The Auk is right to be careful, and the RAF will eventually do well, it is just adjusting to war as the other two Services are.
Kurt_Steiner: Sadly not, trouble is on the way.
Well, at least the PoW and the Repulse are afloat. Well, an unexpected small trouble...
Shit, I'm appalled.
Shit, I'm appalled.
*Sigh* Poor Renown, always my favorite.
Hopefully a lesson to keep the carriers (or at least their aircraft!) out in front.
Hopefully a lesson to keep the carriers (or at least their aircraft!) out in front.
Poor Renown, it was always one of my favorite RN vessels.
Nice to see some lessons learned for RN. But why would RN learn anything if Renown was sunk by BB? Maybe something about value of air recon but hardly something about CV hitting power?
Nice to see some lessons learned for RN. But why would RN learn anything if Renown was sunk by BB? Maybe something about value of air recon but hardly something about CV hitting power?
I feel I have to echo the laments that Renown didn't make it, a real shame.
On the power of CVs I think that even if the RN didn't lose anything to airpower the fact that (a) scouting would have prevented the problem and (b) the IJN ran away from a Swordfish squadron (Swordfish!) should concentrate minds.
And as has been said if it stops BBs running around in the Pacific (or indeed anywhere) then the RN will stumble onto the correct tactics by default. If nothing else a superstack of CVs escorted by BBs should cover most battles, even if the Admiralty prefer to see it as the CVs escorting the BBs.
On the power of CVs I think that even if the RN didn't lose anything to airpower the fact that (a) scouting would have prevented the problem and (b) the IJN ran away from a Swordfish squadron (Swordfish!) should concentrate minds.
And as has been said if it stops BBs running around in the Pacific (or indeed anywhere) then the RN will stumble onto the correct tactics by default. If nothing else a superstack of CVs escorted by BBs should cover most battles, even if the Admiralty prefer to see it as the CVs escorting the BBs.
I'm afraid that the RN commando will think about that the following:
a) The IJN force was commander by Admiral Gandalf.
b) He mistook the Swordfish by the Balrog.
c) Then he applied the well-known tactic of "Fly, ye fools!"
With that the RN will settle the issue.
Well, where there are Swordfishes, there are RN ships, making the long-term inevitable defeat of the enemy only a matter of time. *nods*
Is it me or are other people wondering where the IJN carriers are?
Or will we find out with an update on how horribly the Americans are being handled by them?
Or will we find out with an update on how horribly the Americans are being handled by them?
Someone should have put a Walrus up. Mind you, most ships were dispensing with aircraft at this point so its muted. Though this might revive the debate somewhat especially over scouting and spotting requirements if no land based or carrier aircraft are available.
There may even be questions in the house about the battle!
There may even be questions in the house about the battle!
How is it possible to gain enough experience from naval battles, since there are only few large engagements, which all might be very decisive and the loser hardly manages to get away with experienced crew.
Your old ships are fresh meat for the Japs.
Naval warfare is too nasty. Prepare prepare a ship and her crew a dozen years and still the ship might be sunk in a dozen of minutes.
90% of your fleet is just there to get hit and protect the carrier.
Your old ships are fresh meat for the Japs.
Naval warfare is too nasty. Prepare prepare a ship and her crew a dozen years and still the ship might be sunk in a dozen of minutes.
90% of your fleet is just there to get hit and protect the carrier.
An exciting naval battle, Le Jones. Where do you find the small details like the Bravo Zulu thing?
Naval doctrine isn't evolving in a vacuum. Do the Admiralty know if the Americans are getting any recon value out of their PBYs? Or are they just another newfangled American fad, like corn flakes or republican government?
That's a point, there should be a shed load of flying boats based out of Singapore (there certainly was in OTL) Given the timings they really, really should have been upgraded to Short Sunderlands by now, they were in OTL and surely the RAF priorities haven't changed that much?