The joys of accepting ultimatums

[Isaios]

Or free claims galore.

So, I've been happily beating the snot (and other fluids) out of any simpering vassal foolish enough to think he's entitled to liberty from my benevolent overlordship. But... But why have I been doing this?! I get FREE CLAIMS to everything that leaves my cruel clutches! This seems like something that in almost all instances is BETTER than just preventing a rebel from doing his thing. Free INHERITABLE claims even. Strong ones. And this AFTER I said "Oh, freedom? Yeah, sure, we can do that thing. Cheers mate, invent some nice cheese for me" which seems like a very underhanded thing of me to do.

Surely this can't be WAD. It inevitably ensures a strengthening of the central state. After noticing this, I also started paying attention to other rebellions, and the thing is ridiculous.

The HRE, that grey monstrosity which doesn't at all need any help to grow, usually has some trouble down douth (ooo, the possibilities there) and after these thrifty rebels either get their freedom handed to them or are able to break free (rare though that is), the HREmperor just gobbles them up, one after another.



So, yeah. THAT'S a good way to ensure long-term survival.

PS: That last sentence? That was a lie. I lied. Straight to your faces. Sorry. -_-


Stupid rebels...

 

[Lord Finnish]

Also, many folks that become independent through faction may agree to become your vassal again if you just ask for it.

 

[Lannock]

Also, many folks that become independent through faction may agree to become your vassal again if you just ask for it.

Yup, the 'Granted Freedom' relationship bonus should probably be removed because it's kind of stupid how you can just make them your vassal again immediately. Or at least have a cool off period where the 'offer vassalization' button is greyed out.

 

[Hootieleece]

I agree...that the Strong Inheritable Claims and No lowering of CA upon accepting a Independence Ultimatum is probably not WAD.

My suggestion of Change would be:Upon accepting an Ultimatum.CA drops a level, All direct vassals get -10 malus for being cowardly(or lose 100 prestige per title going independent), and ALL CLAIMS are WEAK.In this way there is a detriment to accepting ultimatum but a possibility of recovering at least some of the lands before you die.Because accepting the Blackmail should have a downside.

 

[brxbrx]

Independence should come with a truce.

The game needs more truces in general.

 

[Isaios]

Frankly, I'd settle just for there not being any claims at all as long as you say yes to the ultimatum. If they're de Jure, fine, you can nab them back that way and if you have prior claims, that's also fine. But this ridicolous concept that you're STRONGER by accepting independence movement is a bit freaky. Which is why the Salian dynasty holds about 30% of the HRE (including italy, burgundy) in 1140.

The truce idea is probably a good one as well.

CA lowering I'm not so sure about. Either or I think.

And the relationship bonus should go.

 

[Closet Skeleton]

I think claims from independence needs to be removed in general. Becoming independent is suicide enough.

 

[Isaios]

Possibly. I think at least in some cases it should go. Like Normandy for the Bastard. Bit of a problem resisting the French.

 

[Hootieleece]

Lowering Crown Authority is something that happened when a independence War was lost (infrequent) in the past.I think it should be lost because all the vassals would begin to see the ruler as weak.(Thus not listening to him as much etc.)If he caves into an Ultimatum without fighting......

The Truce Idea has merit.....I shouldn't be able to declare War on you the day after I give you independence without a fight.(or with fight)TRUCE should be applicable to ALL revolter/faction members not just leader.

I think you should still get claims......like I said before so you have a chance to recover....but with truce in effect, you might die before being able to press the weak claims.

And if you re-vassalize them you lose the weak claim and the justifiable imprisonment.(Basically Amnesty)Otherwise newly Independent rulers should tell you to bug off.(Sorta like, Kings do when your an Emperor)

 

[FabiusBile]

Unless I'm mistaken you loose CA if you're currently not on medium CA to begin with, right? Also you'll not be able to revassalize non de jure foreign vassals.

Edit : And I've never seen an AI HRE actually implode .

 

[BBBD316]

I think it is silly that a vassal would seek independence then reaccept vassalisation the next month.

Also claims should be weak and only on counties not duchies/kingdoms.

 

[Kaiser Ludwig]

I think it is silly that a vassal would seek independence then reaccept vassalisation the next month.

Not sure myself though, it could easily be that he just realized he's surrounded by hordes of infidels and no longer enjoys your protection...

 

[Spartanlemur]

It makes logical sense. If you hold a grudge against vassals for declaring their independence, you would have every right to march in and retake what is yours, executing the offending rulers in the process.

 

[Damorte]

Its not all sunshine and giggles if you accept every ultimatium your vassals bring to you. Everytime you do your crown authority gets dropped by one ( or well at least it should do if everything is working correctly).

 

[Peuri]

Fighting rebellious dukes is also a good way to make money. A ransom of 145 gold per every rebelling duke after a victorious war? Hooray! You want to rebel again? Go right ahead! I'll buy my self a new castle donjon. Also you can raise the levies of your rebelling vassals before your dukes rebel and the troops don't dispand after they start fighting against you. So as a whole the rebelling mechanics need some fine tuning I'd say.

 

[Gingerninja]

Fighting rebellious dukes is also a good way to make money. A ransom of 145 gold per every rebelling duke after a victorious war? Hooray! You want to rebel again? Go right ahead! I'll buy my self a new castle donjon. Also you can raise the levies of your rebelling vassals before your dukes rebel and the troops don't dispand after they start fighting against you. So as a whole the rebelling mechanics need some fine tuning I'd say.

About the raising vassals troops, I read in the 1.08 list that's been fixed. Should not happen anymore. They disband after the vassal rebels.

 

[monsterfurby]

Fighting rebellious dukes is also a good way to make money. A ransom of 145 gold per every rebelling duke after a victorious war? Hooray! You want to rebel again? Go right ahead! I'll buy my self a new castle donjon. Also you can raise the levies of your rebelling vassals before your dukes rebel and the troops don't dispand after they start fighting against you. So as a whole the rebelling mechanics need some fine tuning I'd say.

Though that depends on how long the war takes, how many levies you raise and whether or not they can pay the ransom. Admittedly, levies aren't expensive, but you still have money taken out of your earnings every month. More if you hire mercs.

 

[Isaios]

Fighting rebellious dukes is also a good way to make money. A ransom of 145 gold per every rebelling duke after a victorious war? Hooray! You want to rebel again? Go right ahead! I'll buy my self a new castle donjon. Also you can raise the levies of your rebelling vassals before your dukes rebel and the troops don't dispand after they start fighting against you. So as a whole the rebelling mechanics need some fine tuning I'd say.

This is more useful with Excommunicated Counts or Barons who more often has the requisite amount on hand and can be retaken repeatedly quite easily. It's certainly NICE revoking a title AND getting 145 cash as well, but a bit iffy.

About the raising vassals troops, I read in the 1.08 list that's been fixed. Should not happen anymore. They disband after the vassal rebels.

True.

 

[GillesDeRais]

Fighting rebellious dukes is also a good way to make money. A ransom of 145 gold per every rebelling duke after a victorious war? Hooray! You want to rebel again? Go right ahead! I'll buy my self a new castle donjon. Also you can raise the levies of your rebelling vassals before your dukes rebel and the troops don't dispand after they start fighting against you. So as a whole the rebelling mechanics need some fine tuning I'd say.

Right! I love that! Although sometimes, I rather strip the Duke of the Dukedom to give to someone else; 70 gold is not bad either!

 

[FabiusBile]

I just rechecked and I had two ultimatums wehre I would have lost CA upon accepting. Both werde independence Wars.

Also, as mentioned before, you cannot revassalize non culture Dukes as a King/Emperor (Norwegian Lands as Scandinavian Emperor); non de jure Dukes will never rejoin as well. Unless you're the HRE (or another, culturally unified Empire/Realm) accepting is generally a bad idea, even with the free claims.

I also support the notion that a successfull independence faction should give everyone a normal truce. I find the strong claims kind of okay.