The italian situation

[TheArchduke]

The first thing which got to be overworked is Italy.

First of all, we need to decide if Sicily and Genoa can co-exist next to each other, for now it seems to me that those two exclude each other. Before 1450 one of the two eliminates the other brutally. I am not sure how this can be avoided or should be avoided. Genoa meddles seemingly everywhere and especially in Byzantium, whilst Sicily is a something in between, and could be seen as Genoa "light" with a monarchistic touch.

I am currently evaluating how I could change this situation, maybe Genoa keeps the greek, byzantine card, whilst Sicily takes over the genoese north africa ambitions. Or is it good that both try to destroy the other as soon as possible?

Secondly:

The Byzantium option to go for Genoa is still quite the joke with a bad CoT move, no claims in Italy for sure (dependent on Genoa). I like the backstory, but this obviously has to change.

 

[Incompetent]

The first thing which got to be overworked is Italy.

First of all, we need to decide if Sicily and Genoa can co-exist next to each other, for now it seems to me that those two exclude each other. Before 1450 one of the two eliminates the other brutally. I am not sure how this can be avoided or should be avoided. Genoa meddles seemingly everywhere and especially in Byzantium, whilst Sicily is a something in between, and could be seen as Genoa "light" with a monarchistic touch.

I am currently evaluating how I could change this situation, maybe Genoa keeps the greek, byzantine card, whilst Sicily takes over the genoese north africa ambitions. Or is it good that both try to destroy the other as soon as possible?

Secondly:

The Byzantium option to go for Genoa is still quite the joke with a bad CoT move, no claims in Italy for sure (dependent on Genoa). I like the backstory, but this obviously has to change.

Do they really kill each other that quickly? In my two games so far (to about 1550), both sides have survived, and after that their colonies should reduce the chance of total annexation. Now Swabia vs Bavaria, there's one conflict that's not likely to reach the Reformation.

Currently Genoa and Sicily are supposed to hate each other and fight all the time, and they are supposed to be rivals in most spheres of influence; so it's unfair to expect one of them to show mercy on the other if they gain the upper hand. What we could do is say that if either of them takes over the other completely, their rule is so hated that they get hit by events in the style of the vanilla Dutch revolts, in the hope that the AI's difficulties in dealing with rebels that it can't reach by land will result in the defeated power being restored. Alternatively, we could make a 'HUN inherits SIC' event similar to the one for Byzantium and Genoa, so that although one of the powers would disappear, the other would have a much harder time dominating the Italian peninsula and surrounding seas.

I disagree with you on the Byzantium helping Genoa issue, Byzantium is gambling for a BIG prize (Italian culture) so should have to take a few risks on the way; in any case, in the critical event it is the A choice by Genoa that gives Byzantium its big chance in Italy. I think a more serious problem is that the Palaiologos events often have to be triggered by Krete, when really all that matters is that at least one Palaiologos with a claim to the throne is around (if Krete gets conquered, we can assume that the Palaiologoi would flee to Genoa).

 

[unmerged(21937)]

You won't be moving CoT blindly. If you have cores in Naples & Apulia, you can get italian culture with CoT move. If you don't have, you can choose other booster option and keep CoT in Thrace.

EDIT: And if Denmark and Sweden can coexist and prosper, then Genoa and Sicily should be able too. Both have good colonization potential, so they can expand elsewhere than just at each other.

 

[unmerged(33565)]

Milan needs to be finished, since the last event in the event in swabia event file is:
event = {
id = 202124
trigger = {
religion = protestant
monarch = 32905
}
random = no
country = SWA
name = "The internal Habsburg conflict"
desc = "When Karl I converted to protestantism, there were several others fromt the Habsburg dynasty that refused to support him in his cause and left the duchy. Most of them went to the duchy Milan."
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1520 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1550 }

action_a = {
name = "I hope I don't have to see them again"
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = independence which = MLO }
command = { type = inherit which = MLO }
# Will trigger new dynasty in MLO, not completed
}
}

Something definatly needs to be done with this.

 

[yourworstnightm]

The problem with Genua/ Sicily is that they go for each other in the beginning. Genua because Sicily break the vassalation, and Sicily because they have calims on Genuas islands. Once I saw Genua reduce to a one province minor in 1495, and once Sicliy only had the island left and was diploannexed by Hungary.

 

[Incompetent]

<bump>

This is one of the areas that we need to look at, especially the Byzantine angle. With respect to ArchDuke, the problem with Byzantium and Genoa's cooperation events is that they're too good, in that Byzantium gets an amazing culture and Genoa gets a pretty decent one.

From a Byzantine point-of-view, I would say getting Italian culture should be easier than Granada getting Occitan/French - but only marginally. In both cases we're really reaching the limits of what is plausible, and getting such a wonderful culture has to be hard enough that it's balanced relative to other options and entails serious sacrifices. I would say that if BYZ really wants italian, it should have to give up on turkish, caucasian, syrian and most of its cores outside Europe (with a few Italian cores to compensate). A Byzantium which expands west as far as Genoa and east as far as Armenia is just too big, even if it calls itself the Roman Empire, and simply would not be able to hold itself together.

From Genoa's point-of-view, Greek makes some sense (Cyprus, Kaffa + Kerch) and isn't overpowering, but since the culture is contingent on friendship with BYZ, they should lose it if they ever go to war against the Empire (except possibly in support of the Palaiologoi).

And then there's Sicily - it's difficult to justify giving them any other cultures, really. We could perhaps allow them to convert parts of the Maghreb, but Arabic culture is going too far. As for Greek, the greeks hate them! Perhaps if we extended Berber to become 'maghrebi' culture, it might be OK to give Sicily that, but it would take a lot of justification.