• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

unmerged(36413)

First Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2004
228
0
www.anti-lopen.be
"First We Take Hinterpommern, Then We Take Madrid"

Chapter XXIX: "First We Take Hinterpommern, Then We Take Madrid"
Jan 1639 - Dec 1646

Spain, Portugal, The Knights and Georgia declared war on Bavaria and it's allies France, Poland and Brandenburg.
Bavaria had no armies in South France, and General Von Werth ignored the king's orders and marched on to Hinterpommern.

1639-01.jpg

The Spanish invasion of South France

The king thought Von Werth was dealing with the Spanish invasion, so he decided to focus on Burgundy. The eternal enemy had to be destroyed completely! The troops stationned in Narvik invaded the Burgundian province Finnmark and immediately overwhelmed the fortress. The army that had captured Calais started a siege of the Burgundian capital, Dijon. Some months later, after French troops had taken over the siege, they left Burgundy to fight the Spanish in South France. Eventually, the French took Dijon and Maximilian demanded Finnmark for peace. Burgundy agreed to this. The next day, France annexed Burgundy ... the first ennemy was down.


1640-01.jpg

Meanwhile, General Von Werth had crushed the Navalists in Hinterpommern (exclaiming: "God, I love this job!") and now rushed to the south. He picked up 30000 recruits in Munich and rushed through Lyonnais to engage the main Spanish army, 65000 strong. He intercepted them in Auvergne: his 60000 soldiers had excellent defensive positions in the mountains of "Le Massif Central" and had destroyed all crops. When the Spanish entered Auvergne they didn't find supplies for their huge army [Auvergne has a Supply Limit of 20 for the owner, so for the invading Spanish army it has to be even worse]: they were doomed ... The Spanish commander needed a quick decision and attacked the well defended Bavarian positions. His opponent, General Von Werth, was a brilliant commander and as soon as the Spanish entered the mountains, they were ambushed. The huge army was trapped in a canyon, surrounded and completely exterminated. The Bavarians only had 10000 KIA.
[Man,have you ever seen that? Two 60K armies that meet in Supply Limit 20 province, and one of them is completely wiped out...]

Spain had lost his main army and General Von Werth ordered a simultaneous invasion of Languedoc, Guyenne and Limousin. He led the siege in Languedoc with the main part of the army, to block incoming Spanish reinforcements.

In May 1640 Languedoc was captured and Von Werth started the invasion of Iberia: he destroyed the army that was sieging Béarn and marched on to Cantabria. In Sep 1640 Guyenne was captured and Von Werth split this army to attack Poitou (captured by the Spanish in 1639) and Gerona. Finally, Limousin fell in Apr 1641, completing the conquest of South France.
All available troops (and 60000 new recruits) now invaded Spain: Aragon, Navarra and Catalonia were put under siege.

The Spanish continuously attacked the army in Aragon, so after the fall of Cantabria (Jul 1641) General Von Werth dispatched extra troops to Aragon and took command of the siege.

spain2_1642-01.jpg


In Oct 1641 France accepted a separate peace with Spain and handed over Pondicherry, Guinée and Roussillon (!) [Does anyone understand this decision? The Alliance is winning the war and collected a huge warscore, but France gives up three provinces for peace.]

In Jan 1642 Gerona and Navarra were captured and the Bavarian armies marched on to Valencia and the now Spanish province Roussillon. In Apr 1642 Aragon and Asturias fell and Von Werth did what he promised: in 1639 he took Hinterpommern, and now he marched on to Madrid! He took over the command of the siege and ordered an assault. He led his men up the walls and rose the Bavarian flag over the Spanish capital. Some months later the siege in Roussillon was completed and the war was over. It was a huge victory and Bavaria gained 7 provinces in the peace negotiations! The Bavarian expansion reached the Iberian peninsula. General Von Werth was hailed as a hero: he received the prestigious "Bavarian Cross" and the nickname "Slayer of Spain".

1642-01.jpg

Bavaria fought 94 battles with Spain, winning 85 of them

spain3_1642-02.jpg


spain3_1642-03.jpg

After the war King Maximilian immediately fortified his new frontier: the fortress in Navara and Gerona were upgraded and now could hold a garrison of 10000 soldiers.

To improve the financial situation of the empire, he appointed Tax Collectors in Hinterpommern, Flandern, Calais, Normandie, Leinster, Connaught , Meath (1643), Ulster, Wales, Trondelag, Narvik, Finnmark (1644) and Poitou, Gascogne, Béarn (1645). He also battled the huge inflation (30%):

1646-07.jpg

Who needs Governors? :D

The Bavarian army had to suppress nationalist uprisings in Béarn, Calais, Languedoc, Roussillon, Cantabria and Limousin. In 1645 a huge rebel army of religious fanatics attacked Hannover [Religious Turmoil, 5 revolts in Hannover]. About 40000 rebs died in the snow before the gates of Hannover, the rest was defeated and crucified by General Von Werth.

A year later the Naval Party once again organised an uprising in Hinterpommern: they were upset because Bavaria didn't attack Malta and the Baleares during the 1639-1642 war. General Von Werth crushed them with a smile. It was his last battle: he died few months later.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(30040)

Postmodern poseur
Jun 3, 2004
1.366
0
Good update! Any closer to the assimilation of France?
 

Farquharson

Mad Clansman
14 Badges
Nov 7, 2003
1.713
2
malcolm.lyon.free.fr
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
Here's my theory of why the French accepted such a crazy peace deal - they secretly want to be assimilated into the mighty Bavarian Empire (well, who wouldn't?) and they're trying to make it as easy as possible! So where next I wonder for the BB (Bavarian Blue) treatment? ;)
 

unmerged(36413)

First Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2004
228
0
www.anti-lopen.be
the_shy_kid said:
Good update! Any closer to the assimilation of France?

Nope, I tried to diplo-vassalize France and Poland already 5 or 6 times: they always refuse. I might be forced to force-vassalize them ... :D
 

unmerged(36413)

First Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2004
228
0
www.anti-lopen.be
Deus said:
Soon You can vassalize the puny french and later annex their froggy butts. Then the Iberian peninsula.

I feel like it will be the other way round! :D

Deus said:
How about some stats?

After the next update, promised!
 

unmerged(36413)

First Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2004
228
0
www.anti-lopen.be
Farquharson said:
So where next I wonder for the BB (Bavarian Blue) treatment? ;)

You ain't seen nothing yet when it comes to BB treatment: in the next update I will demonstrate how to win 30+ provinces in one war! :eek: :wacko:

Place your bets! :D
 

Lurken

Leading the Mombotian Horde
58 Badges
Oct 6, 2003
3.822
4
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Lead and Gold
  • Magicka
With the ol' classic "let Rebels kick the some fanny and then grab all-switcharoo"?
 

Grundius

Galactic Conquest Fanboy
16 Badges
Apr 2, 2001
2.057
24
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Going on vacation is a bad idea while being subscribed to this AAR! A lot can happen in a week. :D I see you're kicking major butt (then again, what else is new) and you're sure making the map easier to read (all those one-province minors.. pfff.. better make 'em all the same color). I have no doubt now that an EC should be more than possible. You've taken parts of Spain's and England's hometurfs, a now you can crush them like the bugs they are! Keep it up!

Btw Being an Ajax Amsterdam fan, I'm not sure to be mad or glad about you capturing Koeman ;)
 

unmerged(36413)

First Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2004
228
0
www.anti-lopen.be
Lurken said:
With the ol' classic "let Rebels kick the some fanny and then grab all-switcharoo"?

You mean turbo-annex? Nope, rebs do play a small role in it, but it's no turbo-annex...
 

unmerged(36413)

First Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2004
228
0
www.anti-lopen.be
Grundius said:
Going on vacation is a bad idea while being subscribed to this AAR! A lot can happen in a week. :D I see you're kicking major butt (then again, what else is new) and you're sure making the map easier to read (all those one-province minors.. pfff.. better make 'em all the same color). I have no doubt now that an EC should be more than possible. You've taken parts of Spain's and England's hometurfs, a now you can crush them like the bugs they are! Keep it up!

Btw Being an Ajax Amsterdam fan, I'm not sure to be mad or glad about you capturing Koeman ;)

Taking out Spain and England certainly is one of my goals!

BTW: that's why I captured him in a Feyenoord shirt! ;)
And he fired Soetaers and Sonck, so he had to be punished!
 

Lurken

Leading the Mombotian Horde
58 Badges
Oct 6, 2003
3.822
4
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Lead and Gold
  • Magicka
Meurtenµ said:
You mean turbo-annex? Nope, rebs do play a small role in it, but it's no turbo-annex...

Yep, that's what I meant. But I gave it a fancier name. If it is not what you call "turbo-annex", what can it be? Hmmmm.....*ponders*
 

unmerged(36413)

First Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2004
228
0
www.anti-lopen.be
Lurken said:
Yep, that's what I meant. But I gave it a fancier name. If it is not what you call "turbo-annex", what can it be? Hmmmm.....*ponders*

Next update: tonight! :D
 

Deus

A et Ω
46 Badges
Dec 11, 2004
1.111
0
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Iron Cross
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
Lurken said:
Yep, that's what I meant. But I gave it a fancier name. If it is not what you call "turbo-annex", what can it be? Hmmmm.....*ponders*

Come-on-join-my-realm-party??

-want some beer?

-or some fine wine?

-or some ....
 

unmerged(11018)

First Lieutenant
Sep 14, 2002
252
0
Don't you just love wars on a continental scale? :rofl:

Seriously though, congrats on slappin' the Spaniards around some!

btw, what's up with Sweden's colour?
 

unmerged(36413)

First Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2004
228
0
www.anti-lopen.be
TheBee said:
Don't you just love wars on a continental scale? :rofl:

Seriously though, congrats on slappin' the Spaniards around some!

btw, what's up with Sweden's colour?

You mean why it's not white anymore? I changed some country colors after 1642, because the Swedish blue and Bavarian blue were almost the same. When I was writing Chapter XXVIII I noticed I didn't have a screenshot that showed Europe after the English war (1638), so I had to reload an old game to take that screenshot... that's why Sweden is white in Chapter XXVIII and blue in Chapter XXIX.

In all future updates Sweden will be white, though. (And Lithuania will be Papal Grey).
 

unmerged(36413)

First Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2004
228
0
www.anti-lopen.be
An Empire Where the Sun Never Sets

Chapter XXX: "An Empire Where the Sun Never Sets"
Jan 1647 - Dec 1664

1649-01.jpg



In Nov 1647 both Spain and Portugal issued a trade embargo against Bavarian traders. This was a splendid opportunity to go to war! ... euhmm ... I mean this was an assault on the Bavarian economy and King Maximilian had no other option than to go to war.

But there was no need to rush things: the king prepared the war to the very detail and scheduled to start the war with 4 amfibious attacks. The Naval Party was thrilled! The old land rot would let the Navy triomph in the next war!

It took two years to train and equip these 4 Task Forces and to get them to their attack positions.

1650-05.jpg

Task Force One would attack the undefended and unfortified Portuguese colonies in Senegal and Dakar

1650-04.jpg

Task Force Two would attack the Azores

1650-03.jpg

Task Force Three would conquer Malta

1650-02.jpg

Task Force Four would capture the Baleares​

The Land Army would invade the Portuguese main land, because the ultimate aim of this war would be the annihilation of Portugal ...

Jun 1650 was a perfect time to DoW. Spain and Portugal shipped most of their troops to Africa or South America to fight distant wars with Benin, Congo and the Aztec Empire. There were few soldiers in the Iberian Peninsula and they were taken by surprise when King Maximilian ordered an assault on 7 fronts: Senegal, Azores, Malta, Baleares, Oporto, Aragon and Catalonia.

By the end of that year the frontline had moved on to Valencia, Toledo and Tago. At the end of 1651 Bavarian troops had reached Algarve, while French troops had captured Leon and Estremadura. In 1652 the final offensive was launched: Asturias, Murcia, Andalusia and Granada were put under siege.

But King Maximilian did not witness the end of the war: he died after a reign of 54 years, in which he transformed Bavaria into a European super power.

When the Spanish and Portuguese envoys came to Munich to discuss the peace settlement, they found a new man on the throne: Ferdinand Maria.

The peace treaty with Portugal was signed within 5 minutes:

1653-01.jpg
1653-02.jpg

But the discussion with the Spanish diplomats would last 4 months. The Spanish wanted to get rid of their Sunni provinces Murcia and Andalusia so they incorporated them in every peace offer. The CoT in Andalusia was a very tempting offer, but it had been a Bavarian policy since ages to only take Catholic provinces.

The Bavarians then demanded Malta, Baleares, Aragon, Catalonia, Valencia and Toledo. The Spanish though, were not prepared to give up their gold mines in Toledo and refused every offer. The Spanish people was upset by this stubborn attitude and they took up arms against their king [repeated this offer until stability in Spain was -3]

King Ferdinand wanted to get his troops out of Spain as soon as the rebellions began, because he didn't want to fight freedom loving people. So finally he agreed to only take Malta, Baleares, Asturias and Catalonia.

1654-03.jpg

It was a big victory for Bavaria, since Portugal - the former ally of Spain - switched sides:

1655-01.jpg

The new King had witnessed the success of the naval operations on Malta, Baleares, Azores and Senegal and decided to appoint some leaders of the Naval Party as his advisors. Bavaria was master of the Mediterranean and would go naval!

All research funds were used to close the gap in Naval Tech with Spain and England.

1657-01.jpg
1662-01.jpg

The Navalists were so happy with this new policy that they funded a new fleet:

1656-09.jpg
1654-01.jpg

The Naval Party now really rose to power, and an old dream came true: King Ferdinand sent out 2000 German colonists to North America. They established the first Bavarian Colonial Cities in Rio Grande and Matagorda. And very soon, a third city would be added:

1656-01.jpg
1656-02.jpg

The rebels in Tampico were so fed up with the cruel Spanish reign that they learned to speak German and eat Bratwurst in just one day! [Tampico defected and immediately changed to German culture! :wacko: ]

Bavaria had entered North America and was there to stay: the three cities were fortified and a Colonial Militia of 20000 troops was raised.

The King wanted to create another front for any future wars against Spain and England and ordered the creation of a colony in Massachussetts and Connecticut.

1664-01.jpg

Bavarian possessions in North-America

And then in 1664 - 10 years after the Great Iberian War - the world would finally see the full impact of the Bavarian victory.

1664-10.jpg

The huge Portuguese Colonial Empire and the gigantic Bavarian European Empire were merged together in Eternal Unity!

Bavaria entered a new era and the Empire now had footholds on all continents:
Guangdong in Asia
Nampuia, Curango, Lobito, Launda, Cabinda, Dakar and Senegal in Africa
the 21-province (!) nation of Brazil in South America

Within one year Brazil would even grow to 24 provinces, because three Spanish provinces south of Brazil defected to the Crown of Bavaria.

1664-11.jpg

Bavarian Brazil

The 1650 - 1655 war eventually expanded Bavaria with 41 provinces: 4 were captured from Spain, 4 defected from Spain and 33 were added by annexing Portugal.

The Portuguese Navy (more than 80 warships) now sailed for Bavaria! Bavaria didn't build a single warship in it's entire history, but in Dec 1664 it had one of the biggest fleets on the planet!

1664-12.jpg
1664-13.jpg


1665-03.jpg
 
Last edited:

Deus

A et Ω
46 Badges
Dec 11, 2004
1.111
0
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Iron Cross
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
Meurtenµ said:

What should I research next?

[/QUOTE]

Damn I wrote a manual and the bastard just said "Cannot find server". :mad:


50-50 naval-army research.

Pick a fight with England or spain or if you feel confident both.

forcevassalize and diploannex.

[SINGS]You got the world on a string...​
 

Farquharson

Mad Clansman
14 Badges
Nov 7, 2003
1.713
2
malcolm.lyon.free.fr
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
That's a beautiful map of Europe (for 1665)! I would think repeating the defeat/force-annex/vassalize trick with Spain next would be fun! What sort of a colonial empire do they still have? You seem to have been picking a lot of it up by defection so far.