The India Situation?

[unmerged(110317)]

Since I am an Indian I just have to say somethin here

But tackling the Indian Army situation will be complex, beacuse as I know the Indian Army consisted of several 100 thousand troops or even a million.

It was the largets foreign voluntary force during WW2, but still fielded very few Infantry divisions into actual battle, maybe 10 - 15 Infantry divisions

So this might be a problem for PI to tackle, a Vicky type system though might work beautifully

 

[OHgamer]

As I've suggested in other threads.

Make colonies separate from the mother nation, and have the AI control colonial infra development and policies regarding IC, not the human player. Mother country gets first access to all colonial material production, so long as it has the convoys to connect to the colonies

colonies create their own manpower, and create their own units - human player has ability to take military control over these units in times of war, but their creation will be strictly limited to the manpower numbers of each colony

colonies are politically separate, do not affect elections and do not get benefits of whatever social policy sliders are set - have the option to upgrade colonies to dominion or independent status, or if rebels take over colony that colony should become independent AND at war with the former mother country. Also possibly have option to declare colony a full integrated part of nation, but with massive dissent hits in both mother country and colony (the idea of hordes of non-European people having equal representation in the legislatures of the mother nation would have made the idea abhorrent in most European colonial nations).

 

[unmerged(56754)]

Well certain british colonies really shouldn't be cores at all , maybe colonial cores, which could also be applied to France's Colonies

Yes, becuase all the British colonies revolted during the war, oh wait ...

That would just mean Britain has to fight against Rebellions that never existed.

 

[unmerged(56754)]

colonies create their own manpower, and create their own units - human player has ability to take military control over these units in times of war, but their creation will be strictly limited to the manpower numbers of each colony.

But that makes no sense for India, or any colonial forces.

Local grunts with British NCOs' and Officers, why would an Indian Prince deciede which British officers he puts in the division he won't own during war ...

 

[OHgamer]

But that makes no sense for India, or any colonial forces.

Local grunts with British NCOs' and Officers, why would an Indian Prince deciede which British officers he puts in the division he won't own during war ...

who's talking about the native states - I'm talking about the actual Raj-controlled land under Delhi's control. Which was the majority of India's land mass and the vast majority of the population.

And one can always tweak it so that if you take military control, you get the ability to appoint leaders to the controlled units. be it for colonial units or even puppet armies.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

Yes, becuase all the British colonies revolted during the war, oh wait ...

That would just mean Britain has to fight against Rebellions that never existed.

French colonies mostly revolted with the French Resistance, if the UK was in the same position as France, their colonies would revolt too.

Being a Colonial Core would not necessarily make a province more likely to revolt, unless the owner is very weak.

 

[unmerged(56754)]

French colonies mostly revolted with the French Resistance, if the UK was in the same position as France, their colonies would revolt too.

Being a Colonial Core would not necessarily make a province more likely to revolt, unless the owner is very weak.

Huh?

Making the empire non-cores would mean theres a chance of revolt, so Britain would have to build more units to stop these revolts that are completly untrue.

And your suggesting this could be so, becuase of Vichy Frances' inability to control its own colonial empire ...

 

[L'Afrique]

Huh?

Making the empire non-cores would mean theres a chance of revolt, so Britain would have to build more units to stop these revolts that are completly untrue.

And your suggesting this could be so, becuase of Vichy Frances' inability to control its own colonial empire ...

Revolts are practically non-existent in HoI unless you conquer the territory during the game or get MASSIVE dissent. I doubt it would be a big problem.

 

[Luis de Aveiro]

A little reminder for the inclusion of Goa, Damão and Diu as provinces of the Portuguese State of India in HOI3

 

[unmerged(37697)]

Oh aye. We'll get the little French bits too. 10,000 provinces, remember.

 

[SeedSnatcher]

This'll add another thing you have to pay attention to, but each colony could have separate manpower pools. You can use these pools to recruit local divisions. You obviously can't draw on all the manpower available, but the percentage could vary based on domestic policies.

 

[unmerged(62251)]

How about just adding in a "colonial claim" that's seperate from national claims and non-national claims?

 

[GeneralHannibal]

As I've suggested in other threads.

Make colonies separate from the mother nation, and have the AI control colonial infra development and policies regarding IC, not the human player. Mother country gets first access to all colonial material production, so long as it has the convoys to connect to the colonies

colonies create their own manpower, and create their own units - human player has ability to take military control over these units in times of war, but their creation will be strictly limited to the manpower numbers of each colony

colonies are politically separate, do not affect elections and do not get benefits of whatever social policy sliders are set - have the option to upgrade colonies to dominion or independent status, or if rebels take over colony that colony should become independent AND at war with the former mother country. Also possibly have option to declare colony a full integrated part of nation, but with massive dissent hits in both mother country and colony (the idea of hordes of non-European people having equal representation in the legislatures of the mother nation would have made the idea abhorrent in most European colonial nations).

Here's a smart man

 

[Peacenik]

As I've suggested in other threads.

Make colonies separate from the mother nation, and have the AI control colonial infra development and policies regarding IC, not the human player. Mother country gets first access to all colonial material production, so long as it has the convoys to connect to the colonies

colonies create their own manpower, and create their own units - human player has ability to take military control over these units in times of war, but their creation will be strictly limited to the manpower numbers of each colony

colonies are politically separate, do not affect elections and do not get benefits of whatever social policy sliders are set - have the option to upgrade colonies to dominion or independent status, or if rebels take over colony that colony should become independent AND at war with the former mother country. Also possibly have option to declare colony a full integrated part of nation, but with massive dissent hits in both mother country and colony (the idea of hordes of non-European people having equal representation in the legislatures of the mother nation would have made the idea abhorrent in most European colonial nations).

While managing as many manpower pools as a nation has colonies sounds like a pain, and removing player agency is always dicey, at least allowing the location of troops to be specified when recruiting and deploying in colonies opens the door to some autonomy.

Huh?

Making the empire non-cores would mean theres a chance of revolt, so Britain would have to build more units to stop these revolts that are completly untrue.

And your suggesting this could be so, becuase of Vichy Frances' inability to control its own colonial empire ...

This does not follow. HOI3 will be a new game with new mechanics; it will not simply be a HOI2 mod with British cores in India removed.

From a British perspective Delhi is different in many ways from London, and this facet is significant to the British situation, therefore it should be modeled better.

 

[Novea]

Another problem of India is the sheer ease of overrunning it once you break through out of South East Asia . Hopefully , India in HOI III would not be the unrealistic and ridiculous cakewalk it is in HOI II

 

[diskoerekto]

I have a thread suggesting a simple production system which will ease many problems written in this thread. I even used India as an example, maybe you can have a look at it.

 

[DesertSnow]

That wouldn't make any sense atall.

Having a Colonial infantry type is unfair. Indian divisions were no worse trained then British divisions, its not fair to give them lower stats.

These divisions are already moddelled in HOI2. Build some Infantry and eventually you will get '7th Indian infantry division or what ever' as well as the 10 or so Indian divisions that exist from the start.

I never said anything about what stats should these "colonial" infantry uinits have. I really don't know anything about how much time / money / personnel the brittish used to train native populations in modern warfare.

My main problem with the HoI2 system is that you can't really use indian manpower. Even if you could, not being able to deploy indian units in India seems stupid. I don't think the brits shipped thousand of indians to Great Britain and trained/deployed them there.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

India was administered directly by the India Office in London - I really don't see the need for her being a separate colony/nation until 1947 - it's the wrong way of handling it.

Territory-wise, the HoI2 situation was fine (despite the lack of minor provinces due to obvious map restrictions, which can be amended in HoI3), with the exception of Egypt which should be an independent puppet state... though this is another topic...

 

[dvandyke]

Just make sure the colonies are the same color as the master nation. Very important.

 

[OHgamer]

India was administered directly by the India Office in London - I really don't see the need for her being a separate colony/nation until 1947 - it's the wrong way of handling it...

No, this is patently false. India was administered by the Indian Civil Service based in Delhi (pre-1932, in Calcutta). India Office had only an oversight role to ensure that the actions of the Government of India remained in harmony with the intentions of the decisions and desires of Parliament in London (so no separate tariffs to promote Indian industry, in spite of attempts by a couple of governors-general, most famously Lord Curzon, to do so).

The actual day to day administration of India was centered in Delhi. All tax revenues gathered by the Civil Service went to Delhi. The Army of India was paid out of the budget of the Indian state (and not one farthing for its maintenance came from London), all spending on infrastructure, health measures, law & order and education came from the Delhi budget, India had its own currency (the rupee, tied to sterling with changes in value over the decades), own tax and tariff structure, own election laws, and completely separate legal system based on an amalgamation of British and Mughal laws.

India Office (and the Colonial Office in general for the other colonies) only had a negative oversight authority, to ensure that the actions of the British administrators sent out to oversee colonial authority preserved "the best interests of the British Empire" in the colonies, and in any dispute resolution should that arise between the governors and the local legislatures. In terms of actual governance, it was all based at the colony level, not based on decisions made in London. And in general London had only a cursory awarness of what went on in the colonies on a day to day basis, which is why London tended not to get involved until an actual cockup or crisis hit the colonies that needed direct British intervention to ensure that in the end, Britain's interests in the colony were protected. That's as true of India as is was of small colonies like Antigua or Gambia or Fiji.