The index dungeonis Dilemia[A Constructive intended critique]

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unmerged(729010)

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Apr 21, 2013
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I want to start of by saying I enjoy the game in general, it been the first of these type of games I really enjoyed since the famous Dungeon Keeper from bullfrog.
But I have a nagging feeling that every time I play, I am going the exact same route in Index dungeonis. While in truth I kind of want to change around use prison, monster den and other units for that matter, just often feel like there no winning factors to encourage it. Looking at it more closely for instance:

Prison 3 points: Allows to keep heroes for ransom money, while this does seem good at first glance, is it really worth given up a Champion/ratman or Forge + tier 2 weapon upgrades in comparison, when money is so easy to come by. One could claim but well money will make buying the 150gold extra unit slot easier, but if we look at it you need at least between 2-3 extra storage unit to have enough material to make treasure rooms to actually keep more than 50 gold.

Monster's den 5 points: Feel like its exactly same situation as above you give up potentially strong buffs for gold which already very easy to get by, to actually reap the bonuses I would have to spend 10 index points into it, 5 to get monster den and 5 to get a minotaur to camp it up, which I could get 2 of the tier 3 weapon upgrades for.

Looking at the two examples above just to point out this I rarely have any use of gold through the duration of the game as far as I have experience putting the 10gold to unlock first extra unit slot up and 50g for the 3rd and 150g for the final, again these are easy to get by other means except for the last, but the amount of materials needed to build treasure rooms enough to store gold for it, you would usually have the gold by other means by then. Leaving you with a prison or monster den with not other practical use.

What I am trying to get at is could it be possible to balance prices of index points a bit better accordingly to what use the item or structure is to you, and generally across the board its usefulness. When certain index point abilities so widely outshine the others I feel like I am going down same path constantly, not really thinking about the alternatives and not really get the variation out of picking differently which I suppose was part the point in the system, besides letting players stick together a setup matching their playing style.
 
I've been mulling over the same issue for a while now.
It's my opinion that there's just not ENOUGH points to get. I'm one of those people (one of many) who enjoys building a BIG dungeon, with every room possible. The sheer idea of not unlocking one of the rooms just terrifies me, no matter how useless it is.

The limited points is a way to balance matters and provide an added challenge. However, as with the original ladders, it feels too much like an artificial barrier.

There's a way around this- enable the player to earn more points (limited, or unlimited) AFTER the need for balance and challenge has passed. I'm thinking in the lines of, reaching dungeon level 10 unlocks a variety of extra ways to earn more points, enough to lock everything, given time. Another option would be, to have the Extractor provide dec points beyond what it does now- say, 1 dec point for every ten heroes extracted, once you've reached level 10. This way you can eventually unlock more, without the risk of unbalancing things early in the game.

Just a thought.
 
The economy for DEC pts is very tight. You are definitely in a position where you can't buy everything you want and have to trade off some things. Which kind of adds interest, but if too tight, you end up feeling pov all the time and no-one likes that heh! Usually, must haves for me are Master Builder (25% mat discount) and Fast Learner (4pt bottom tier instead of 5), recently I've been trying Specialist (extra dec pt for every 5 unlocked) but tbh, I think it only just returns its cost of 3pts. Conscription (4/5) for the extra squad is also a must for me.

I think for balance, the summoning dec pts for 6, 8, 9 creatures should increase to reflect the extra cost of lower tier mobs. Also, I think it is a bit harsh to have to pay 3 points for the Mascot and 4/5 points each for rank 3 armour and weapons when you already have to pay 4/5 pts for the Arcanium. Possibly the extractor points could be a bit more generous too! (1pt ea for 1, 5, 10). I don't know whether it is a feature or bugged, but the Equipment dec pts seems to work eccentrically - if they were a flat, 1 equipped unit increases the count by 1 they might be easier to earn (I haven't quite noticed the pattern, seems like 1 for the squad, 1 for all the 4 mobs, rather than 1 pt for each deployed unit - or it could count 1 for each unique type equipped and 1 for the squad as well I haven't paid enough attention)

I feel like I've got all these awesome toys but I am always too pov to use them lol ;~) Same with the Soulless unlock, I'm desperate to use the undead poodle lol and had to wait til Ch4 for a chance. (Haven't managed to use it yet cos I stuck with Oscar, also I'm at 4-5 now so don't wanna go back and re-do 3-4 in case something bad and glitchy happens lol and I lose my progress

[Ed. I think something like this would be fairer: Arcanium for 4/5 pts gives you mascots and potions (forgot them before lol, they cost pts too) included free; and wep and armor are kept the same cost but do not require the Arcanium.]
 
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Re: Prison and Monster Den

I've used the Prison a few times, some for the achieve, once because gold resource was very far away. There is also 2 side quests where you need it (1 optional). The prison and resources in general suffer from if Death Slayer delivers the killing blow the hero doesn't turn into a bag of goodies which makes things go a bit slow (espesh if you turn ladders off)

For the Monster Den, I usually end up using the Mino as my tank unit, buy the 10g and 50g squads then let the Den fill up my gold to 150 for the 4th squad. It means the Overlord gets a bit neglected. With Master builder, Treasure Pits only cost 112 mats, so that is not so bad on Stockrooms. The problem I find with the Den is it fights with the Brewery and the Heroes go there first :< so I can't get them drunk reliably lol. It would be nice if the AI ranked the Brewery as more attractive than the Den, but then sent them onto the Den once they were drunk. :D
 
The economy for DEC pts is very tight. You are definitely in a position where you can't buy everything you want and have to trade off some things. Which kind of adds interest, but if too tight, you end up feeling pov all the time and no-one likes that heh! Usually, must haves for me are Master Builder (25% mat discount) and Fast Learner (4pt bottom tier instead of 5), recently I've been trying Specialist (extra dec pt for every 5 unlocked) but tbh, I think it only just returns its cost of 3pts. Conscription (4/5) for the extra squad is also a must for me.
Started using fast learner to after I unlocked the rune, it does seem like it gives a few extra points if picked straight of the block when you get 3 points for it, but it is incredibly tight on points, what like I mentioned earlier sort of bothers me most, is the balance bit what you get for what you spend, and how many points can be returned of the spend through acquiring Dec point by it. I think the idea of not being able to get everything is good as it allow you to do a dungeon in different approaches and thereby get a new dungeon experience every time, but if its to very tight it I often feel it works against it, as you take the best ones among the value unbalanced ones and leave the rest, which initially means using same index dungeonis setup model.

Also, I think it is a bit harsh to have to pay 3 points for the Mascot and 4/5 points each for rank 3 armour and weapons when you already have to pay 4/5 pts for the Arcanium.
think its a bit over the hill to, being those unit upgrades will effectively end costing half total points you need forge, arcanium, mascot, weapon upgrades not use if you can skip the first for if not you spend 3 points on the first (1forge, 1armor, 1weapon) then spend 5arcanium, 3mascot, 5 weapon/armor upgrade. Effectively if you collect points together I makes up for about 21points total. What I find is probably the biggest problem with that big a point sink is that I does not really balance with anything else well, I mean there not a lot of other things you can buy for the 21 points which would give you a better effective return, which will often make it so it become a must in most play through to have in the end.