The impact of forced gavelkind

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

From an earlier dev-diary

• Owners of <Secret DLC> may ask their vassals to return to gavelkind succession, or force them to via a favor.

Did this feature actually make it into the next update?
And if yes, can somebody tell what the expected outcome of this will be when I am Rule with a King-Title.

I expect that my vassals' Duchies will be split under their kids but also will raise my total number of vassals and maybe exceed the limit?

Are there other pro's and con's that I am missing?

Would be nice to get a greater picture of this.

 

[TL_]

Even if duchies are split up, unless it's a multiduke, chances are you'll still only have one direct vassal.

One duke with 3 counties -> One duke with 1 county (has vassals of his own)

Keeps vassals weak, prevents them from getting too big with marriages and conquests
Cons: Favors can be expensive and vassals with favors can do all kinds of things like steal a good spot on your council

 

[Kliwarrior]

I didn't find this in the Release Notes published yesterday,
Anyway if present , it would be a great tools against powerful vassals ( dukes owning two or more counties, of archdukes ). As pointed above, you would end up with one more vassal just in the multi-duke case (not a big deal, anyway).
But again , I didn't find it in the Darkrenown's post... Tomorrow we will discover ..

 

[TL_]

I didn't find this in the Release Notes published yesterday,
Anyway if present , it would be a great tools against powerful vassals ( dukes owning two or more counties, of archdukes ). As pointed above, you would end up with one more vassal just in the multi-duke case (not a big deal, anyway).
But again , I didn't find it in the Darkrenown's post... Tomorrow we will discover ..

The feature is still in, as Darkrenown added later in the thread:

No, it's still in, I suppose the line was missed from the notes.

 

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

The feature is still in, as Darkrenown added later in the thread:

Great, so now we can destroy the realms of unwanted Councillors and make them not so strong again

Edit: no wait, that only works when they die, though.
But with an eye on their heirs you can have an impact on who becomes your next strong vassal and therefore councillor.

 

[Kliwarrior]

Edit: no wait, that only works when they die, though.

It should be probably used if the vassal is imprisoned (than a quick tour in the oubliette..) or just.. cause him a nasty accident

 

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

It should be probably used if the vassal is imprisoned (than a quick tour in the oubliette..) or just.. cause him a nasty accident

I like your thinking

 

[Dragatus]

And then you can celebrate ... with beer.

 

[Aries666]

I wonder could you seduce the wife of a particularly strong duke so that he gets many, many heirs, completely breaking up his realm on death?

 

[RoverGrover]

I wonder could you seduce the wife of a particularly strong duke so that he gets many, many heirs, completely breaking up his realm on death?

Best response. Destroy them via sleeping with their wife? Genius

 

[brifbates]

I wonder could you seduce the wife of a particularly strong duke so that he gets many, many heirs, completely breaking up his realm on death?

Of course, as long as you don't get caught. If he thinks the kids are his it's all good...

 

[Sirrobert1]

Of course, as long as you don't get caught. If he thinks the kids are his it's all good...

If you do get caught, the plan failed, but you didn't loose anything. You still slept with his wife.
And he probably still has a few kids to break up things.

 

[thevmag]

Cons: Favors can be expensive and vassals with favors can do all kinds of things like steal a good spot on your council

I love when they do that. There is so much damage they can do with a favour, so many laws they can undo, and instead they waste it on a spot on the council. Favour exhausted, just don't give him another.

This sounds incredibly useful. Save favours only for low-ranked council members you plan to kick out immediately after, or for large non-council vassals you want to break up. Once they call in that favour to get a position of power... you've got what you want, and they've become nothing more than yet another powerless civil servant

 

[Aries666]

If you do get caught, the plan failed, but you didn't loose anything. You still slept with his wife.
And he probably still has a few kids to break up things.

And wouldn't you get some bastards that you could use too, or would she keep them?

 

[Asiak]

It is in, I asked in yesterday's dev diaries and he confirmed it.

I've also seen it in Arumba's YouTube videos, and Cringer's Twitch stream.

It was a diplo option though neither hovered over the button long enough to get details.

It is there though.

And it will be significant but not game breaking I don't think. There will be those vassals that are great for it even the single dukes, but they'll still need to have a lot of kids for it to be worth it. And it's gonna be awesome being able to water them down once they've gotten to big. I think that seducers will be a good target, bastards and wife hate aside they still make a lot of legitimate babies because of the attraction and fertility boosts.

You also have to remember you can ask them and they can say no we have no idea what the chances are of them saying yes or no.

It was mentioned that a favor can force it which is amazing but. It will be a good tool for rich rulers but I also think that with all of the other expenditures that this DLC introduces you won't always have that 400 to drop like you used to.

Conclave gave us great incomes and The Reaper's Due is giving us a lot to spend on.

 

[Widowmaker94]

It is in, I asked in yesterday's dev diaries and he confirmed it.

I've also seen it in Arumba's YouTube videos, and Cringer's Twitch stream.

It was a diplo option though neither hovered over the button long enough to get details.

It is there though.

And it will be significant but not game breaking I don't think. There will be those vassals that are great for it even the single dukes, but they'll still need to have a lot of kids for it to be worth it. And it's gonna be awesome being able to water them down once they've gotten to big. I think that seducers will be a good target, bastards and wife hate aside they still make a lot of legitimate babies because of the attraction and fertility boosts.

You also have to remember you can ask them and they can say no we have no idea what the chances are of them saying yes or no.

It was mentioned that a favor can force it which is amazing but. It will be a good tool for rich rulers but I also think that with all of the other expenditures that this DLC introduces you won't always have that 400 to drop like you used to.

Conclave gave us great incomes and The Reaper's Due is giving us a lot to spend on.

Great incomes? What? Not as far as I could tell.

 

[Soladept]

Great incomes? What? Not as far as I could tell.

before conclave the baseline feudal tax law was 0%, increasing feudal taxes would increase opinion penaltys.

with conclave, you have a baseline around 20% i think and now feudal vassals will like paying more taxes if their levy obligation gets reduced, and the majority of ones vassals in this game are feudal.

basicly, getting 20% of something as a baseline that used to be 0 is a significant income increase, and you can increase it further. its only really notable when your realm gets to the size of a decent kingdom with enough vassals to notice, before then you are far more dependent on demense income.

 

[Asiak]

Great incomes? What? Not as far as I could tell.

Before Conclave the base tax rate for feudal lords was 0, you had to increase it just get any taxes from them. Now right from the beginning them just paying you something, anything can be a good stepping stone.

In the beginning it really only adds up to a couple of extra hundred in the early game. But Pre Conclave you would have had to wait double the amount of time early game just to get that extra couple of hundred. Even with realm / opinion min maxing and tax finagling.

But even before Conclave a tall player with a few centuries of building tax income structures in his personal demesne had immense potential to be rich. By the year 1000 I'm floating at 7 - 8k. Every few years you dump anywhere from 2-5k back into the demesne, then you grow more powerful, then you wait and before long you're back up to 8k.

 

[Widowmaker94]

Before Conclave the base tax rate for feudal lords was 0, you had to increase it just get any taxes from them. Now right from the beginning them just paying you something, anything can be a good stepping stone.

In the beginning it really only adds up to a couple of extra hundred in the early game. But Pre Conclave you would have had to wait double the amount of time early game just to get that extra couple of hundred. Even with realm / opinion min maxing and tax finagling.

But even before Conclave a tall player with a few centuries of building tax income structures in his personal demesne had immense potential to be rich. By the year 1000 I'm floating at 7 - 8k. Every few years you dump anywhere from 2-5k back into the demesne, then you grow more powerful, then you wait and before long you're back up to 8k.

That's what I'd do. After I figured out the game... enough not to be anally violated by all my neighbors due to stupidity and treating it like Total War.

I like the high numbers.

 

[Rags17]

I wonder could you seduce the wife of a particularly strong duke so that he gets many, many heirs, completely breaking up his realm on death?

Screw his wife AND his legacy - I love it !