The HRE minors plead for you to save them!

[FredricBastiat]

All right, so the title was over-dramatic. But seriously, I think it would a good thing if we could stop the HRE minors from getting annexed in the first 30 years of every game. So, this thread is for ideas to that end to be brought up/shot down etc. Some of mine.


1. A defensive alliance between all HRE states. If all 20 of the HRE minors pile on you when you attack one of them, it might make you think twice. It would a lot harder than picking off the a rich prov or ten is now.

2. A more effective BB system. I love the BB idea, but in EU2 it is too easy to ignore it and get away. Nothing really bad happens until you get past the BB limit, and even that is often only a way to take more land. In CK I get hammered if I get worse than a tarnished reputation, in EU2 I can go to dishonorable scum before I really need to care. I can't think of any way of doing this though, as CK vassals are really not an option.

 

[Geroshabu]

A large bonus to relations between member states of the same religion would be nice. After 1658 this bonus might be changed to a smaller positive boost, something like +25 in relations, between all members, no matter the religion.

 

[Gebhard Blucher]

There are times I've wanted a global game option like the no forced annexations rule, but one only applying to co-religionists (or religions with which you can have a royal marriage). That countries would have to at least diplo-annex a lot of those minors.

Here's hoping they implement a lot of little options like that.

 

[unmerged(8915)]

maybe giving the HRE nations some sort of teeth? annexing an HRE nation would greatly tarnish your reputation with all HRE nations? giving all of the a CB? that way, we would keep the fragmentation of RE without unbalancing the other geographical areas..

 

[Mowers]

Simply limiting the extent to which countries can dircetly control regions aka CK would solve this problem. Dead.

Its historically accurate, realistic and would make for better gameplay.

 

[Brownbeard]

I disagree. If it were me I'd give all HRE nations permanent casus belli against any nation that holds HRE province that it does not have core on. Like Catholics had on anyone who annexed the Pope and held Rome. Plus tweak the AI to release such provinces as vassals if it acquires them.

 

[unmerged(20077)]

Yes, but when did you ever actually see any Catholics DoW anyone who held Rome? The problem with CBs is that if you're a big country like Poland or Sweden and you start eating HRE minors, the other minors feel too weak to risk attacking you. I think it would be a better solution to simply make it harder to force annex a country, e.g. no force annexation unless you claim their throne or have CBs on all their territory.

 

[Inostra]

Also remember that it’s not only the players that need to be discouraged from annexing. The computer too needs restrictions in this area, and restrictions it can deal with.

 

[CatalanNation]

maybe giving the HRE nations some sort of teeth? annexing an HRE nation would greatly tarnish your reputation with all HRE nations? giving all of the a CB? that way, we would keep the fragmentation of RE without unbalancing the other geographical areas..

Nice! That's it!

 

[Aristippus]

The problem, at least in my experience, is that the other HRE countries annex each other. That's a more difficult problem to resolve, I think.

 

[unmerged(36826)]

Perhaps it can simply be hardcoded that AI nations will not annex HRE nations?

Won't help humans annex the HRE but that will happen somehow I am sure whatever you do.

 

[Gebhard Blucher]

I'd still rather have an on/off option for this kind of thing. The "forced annexation" scenario option works kind of, but I'd like to see it apply only to countries that can possibly share a religious marriage (so castile can annex granada, etc.). Diplo-annexations are fine though, I think.

 

[unmerged(19063)]

Do it the same way Vicky modelled the German Confederation.

Make a defensive alliance that includes all the HRE states that won't run out like normal alliances.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

There should be something that you can do to a skint 1 province vassal other than annex it. My probably totally unworkable proposal is to model annexations of less than a province in size by allowing the victor to transfer a point of basic tax value from one of the victim's provinces to an adjacent province that the victor owns.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

I'd still rather have an on/off option for this kind of thing. The "forced annexation" scenario option works kind of, but I'd like to see it apply only to countries that can possibly share a religious marriage (so castile can annex granada, etc.). Diplo-annexations are fine though, I think.

The problem in eu2 with forced annexations option off is that it leads to endless wars more often because the ai wants only one thing, annexation, and will accept nothing else, so it just sits there in eternal war mode.

 

[unmerged(19057)]

I think the best thing to do with the HRE is to look at how it worked historically(because, obviously, all the tiny states WEREN'T eaten up).

The states of the HRE basically had two options once the Empire was totally discredited.. depend on an alliance with a foreign power or join a League or Coalition of smaller states.

The old EU diplomacy system has always gotten on my nerves...beacause a mere 400 point numerical range can hardly depict the intricate sway of relationships in Reformation Europe. However i think player restrictions like a defensive coaltion in the HRE is not an option. What happens when one minor attakcs another? They would get overrun immeadiately. And that fact is a good few of those states did find their way into foreign hands.

However i'm not sure what alternatives I can offer. I've had only one theory that i think would be supportable by the EU system of play:

My idea is that each state in the game would have a 'diplomatic stance' option in the game, in which it can pick one of the major nations(or maybe any nation if that wouldn't be too crazy) to be pro and one nation to be anti. In this way, the numerical range would fluctuate not just with those nations you chose to be for or against, but also with those who also have a stance with the same nation you do(your friend's are your enemies' friends sort of thing). And the AI would act on the dipmolatic policy they have set up(seek alliances with those who have a policy; ect.). The AI would chose this on which nations they have a terittorial claim ,cassus belli, dynastic tie, and the like. This could also make it easire for the minors to find protection from a stronger country, or form a coalition with other minors who are in the same camp.

and, while were on the subject of HRE; i think that this game should give a more accurate election to the emporor(seven elector states which, in my handy system, would already have a major nation they support). And maybe the emporor should have a little more potential. I mean it is commonly eccepted that, in the 30 years war, the Emporor had the potential to make Germany more centralized but focused instead on breaking the power of the protestants. I think a neat and new path this game might take would be a greater involvement with the HRE(since it did change during th eperiod). Like the rights of the princes to chose a religion, make alliances, ect. I mean they did have to fight for these rights historically. But i guess this is another subject.

feel free to compliment, tear apart, ect.

 

[Gebhard Blucher]

I think the answer lies in mod-able AI files. You could, for example, determine exactly which provinces a country will try to take, and which countries it will try to annex. Similarly, you could list a set of provinces the country will never accept in a peace deal, or countries it will never annex in a war.

The game can ship with a with a wild west, dog-eat-dog AI like in EU2. That's good anyway, and probably how I'll play most games. But sometimes I want to really control certain aspects of AI behavior. Mod-makers would want to do that too, given the effort a lot of them put into this kind of stuff.