• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

TheAnguishedOne

Field Marshal
38 Badges
May 2, 2014
4.687
820
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
What a horrible creative weapon. I suppose he plays 'Ride of the Valkyries' for the sake of irony.
 

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
52 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
7.951
1.435
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
What a horrible creative weapon. I suppose he plays 'Ride of the Valkyries' for the sake of irony.
Especially since that song is associated with a certain someone...
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
9 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.065
14
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
-March 24, 2018

I can finally provide more details about this. :D
That's cool. I admit I forgot about that two year old discussion, but it does make for a nice callback.

At least we know how Hoffman is murdering people, and tbh we can piece together an obvious motive for killing muslim due to his past as an Angeloi. The mystery that remains is how Hoffman is alive after all this time, or why he doesn't look much older than he did in the 40s.

Love the opening bit with Anne meeting Hans and Conrad. Even better that it takes place in New Berlin right after the discussion we had about it.:D
Makes sense.
I kinda get the feeling that they would've gotten the South Island below them from Penglai after WW1, so maybe they could offer that island back to the Tianxia in exchange for a free reign on the Roman Pacific islands.

I've been thinking about the name given to the Communist regime in Mainland China, the Nationalist Union of China, which is a rather odd name for a far left regime don't you think. Maybe the "Nationalist" part in the name could allude to a Totalist or National Bolshevik (its equivalent anyway) regime in control there, that or the Communist there could rely on populist strategies to appease nationalist sentiments among the Chinese populace, that might make sense.

I also imagine that the Communists of China would be very different from the Communists of the Roman Spartacus League, with the Communist Chinese government being more of an Leftwing authoritarian populist regime (or at least a Socialist democracy like KR's Syndicalist Britain and France at Volkerschalt's start date with a powerful Totalist party in its political climate) while the Sparatcus would consit of Anarcho-Communists and social meritocratics/democrats, tho it would include a Leftist Populist minority in an allied Strasserist faction in the Sparatacus government. Maybe the Strassers would found Totalism in Volkerschalt and even Tianxia in place of Oswald Mosley, that might make sense.
 
Last edited:

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
52 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
7.951
1.435
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
That's cool. I admit I forgot about that two year old discussion, but it does make for a nice callback.
I've actually been planning this out since I introduced Hoffman back in HOI3. :p
At least we know how Hoffman is murdering people, and tbh we can piece together an obvious motive for killing muslim due to his past as an Angeloi. The mystery that remains is how Hoffman is alive after all this time, or why he doesn't look much older than he did in the 40s.
Yep. Nobody knows why Hoffman is still alive after all this time. Especially since I said back in End of History that he's dead.
Love the opening bit with Anne meeting Hans and Conrad. Even better that it takes place in New Berlin right after the discussion we had about it.:D
We'll have more of Anne's adventures in Neurhomania coming up. There's a chapter in Anne's story there that I haven't talked about yet.
I kinda get the feeling that they would've gotten the South Island below them from Penglai after WW1, so maybe they could offer that island back to the Tianxia in exchange for a free reign on the Roman Pacific islands.
Perhaps.
I've been thinking about the name given to the Communist regime in Mainland China, the Nationalist Union of China, which is a rather odd name for a far left regime don't you think. Maybe the "Nationalist" part in the name could allude to a Totalist or National Bolshevik (its equivalent anyway) regime in control there, that or the Communist there could rely on populist strategies to appease nationalist sentiments among the Chinese populace, that might make sense.
Maybe they could be ruled by the left wing of the Guomindang (which existed in real life I think) which slowly gets more radical while maintaining the "nationalist" aspect of the party.
I also imagine that the Communists of China would be very different from the Communists of the Roman Spartacus League, with the Communist Chinese government being more of an Leftwing authoritarian populist regime (or at least a Socialist democracy at Volkerschalt's start date with a powerful Totalist party in its political climate) while the Sparatcus would consit of Anarcho-Communists and social meritocratics/democrats, tho it would include a Leftist Populist minority in an allied Strasserist faction in the Sparatacus government. Maybe the Strassers would found Totalism in Volkerschalt and even Tianxia in place of Oswald Mosley, that might make sense.
Maybe in late game there will be an event/focus chain that pushes them towards fighting each other.
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
9 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.065
14
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
Maybe they could be ruled by the left wing of the Guomindang (which existed in real life I think) which slowly gets more radical while maintaining the "nationalist" aspect of the party.
That's cool, tho I already have the right wing of the Goumindang under Wang Jingwei in charge of the Tianxia regimes, so maybe the Communist revolution caused a schism in the Goumindang party. That said, this idea makes me wonder what the Fuxingyundong would do in this. Perhaps the Tianxia Goumindang, distancing itself from the Communist Goumindang wing, could create a new party with Fuxingyundong that seeks Chinese reunification under the Ming dynasty, that could work.
Maybe in late game there will be an event/focus chain that pushes them towards fighting each other.
Good idea, tho I did give the Sparatacus a small chance of falling into another civil war due to a Totalist coup in another post. Maybe the Nationalist Chinese Communist could support Totalist factions in the Sparatcus should they win the Roman Civil War to get rid of ideological rivals in the Anarcho-Communists and social meritocrats.

I think I have an brief idea for TL-191 After the End that I want to share with you. For the sake of convenience, I'll keep your previous overview of the original Tl-191 mostly the same, with the exception of including an African Goring Reich founded by a rouge Maximilian Goering during the many wars between the Siegfriedist and Maxmists there, and the rise of a Paulist-Syndicalist bloc in Mexico, India and the CSA after WW2. Basically the idea is that after the Siegfriedists and Chinese defeat Fegelein's Maximist Roman Republic and reunite the Reich, a cold war takes place between the meritocratic-democratic forces of the Siegfriedists and Chinese, an alliance of socialist states in Mexico, the CSA and India that follow Syndicalism with elements of Paulism mixed in, and an African Goering Reich that slowly becomes fascist over time. The Siegfridists would still be busy rebuilding a Reich divided by a century of Maximist-Siegfreidist divisions, especially since a lot of provinces with non Greco-German populations no longer trusts the Reich due to decades of Maximist Apartheid and now wish to declare Independence from Roman control, leading to a militant version of the Civil Rights that soon escalates into a new civil war and eventally a thrid world war due to intervention from the other Cold War blocs.
 
Last edited:

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
52 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
7.951
1.435
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
That's cool, tho I already have the right wing of the Goumindang under Wang Jingwei in charge of the Tianxia regimes, so maybe the Communist revolution caused a schism in the Goumindang party. That said, this idea makes me wonder what the Fuxingyundong would do in this. Perhaps the Tianxia Goumindang, distancing itself from the Communist Goumindang wing, could create a new party with Fuxingyundong that seeks Chinese reunification under the Ming dynasty, that could work.
Good idea.
Good idea, tho I did give the Sparatacus a small chance of falling into another civil war due to a Totalist coup in another post. Maybe the Nationalist Chinese Communist could support Totalist factions in the Sparatcus should they win the Roman Civil War to get rid of ideological rivals in the Anarcho-Communists and social meritocrats.
They could do that, but if their efforts are supported it could lead to a purge of those factions if not outright war.
I think I have an brief idea for TL-191 After the End that I want to share with you. For the sake of convenience, I'll keep your previous overview of the original Tl-191 mostly the same, with the exception of including an African Goring Reich founded by a rouge Maximilian Goering during the many wars between the Siegfriedist and Maxmists there, and the rise of a Paulist-Syndicalist bloc in Mexico, India and the CSA after WW2. Basically the idea is that after the Siegfriedists and Chinese defeat Fegelein's Maximist Roman Republic and reunite the Reich, a cold war takes place between the meritocratic-democratic forces of the Siegfriedists and Chinese, an alliance of socialist states in Mexico, the CSA and India that follow Syndicalism with elements of Paulism mixed in, and an African Goering Reich that slowly becomes fascist over time. The Siegfridists would still be busy rebuilding a Reich divided by a century of Maximist-Siegfreidist divisions, especially since a lot of provinces with non Greco-German populations no longer trusts the Reich due to decades of Maximist Apartheid and now wish to declare Independence from Roman control, leading to a militant version of the Civil Rights that soon escalates into a new civil war and eventally a thrid world war due to intervention from the other Cold War blocs.
Maybe some of these minority factions could embrace nationalism and call for the restoration of countries like France, England, and Poland.
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
9 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.065
14
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
Maybe some of these minority factions could embrace nationalism and call for the restoration of countries like France, England, and Poland.
Agreed. The RAF would be involved as a third faction and would likely cause the Syndicalist bloc to join in. Hope you like this TL-191 note I came up with, even if I may have escalated things too quickly. I'm still focused on Kaiserreich at the moment, but I'll drop some ideas for other media, alt histories or just lore in general from time to time.

I also get the feeling this TTL's TL-191's version of the Holocaust might have also have some affect on the radicalization and militancy of this Civil Rights movement for some reason. Also, since I remember Turtledove had an Afican American socialist uprising against the CSA in OTL Southern Victory, I assume something similar would happen in the Maximist Victory's WW1 to the Maximists as well. Maybe there could also be Malian and Quechua uprisings in Siegfridist Neurhomaina and some Hellenic Pagan uprisings in the Goering Reich, to parallel the Canadian and Mormon uprisings respectively.
 
Last edited:

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
52 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
7.951
1.435
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
Agreed. The RAF would be involved as a third faction and would likely cause the Syndicalist bloc to join in. Hope you like this TL-191 note I came up with, even if I may have escalated things too quickly. I'm still focused on Kaiserreich at the moment, but I'll drop some ideas for other media, alt histories or just lore in general from time to time.
While we've already taken extreme liberties with the butterfly effect (and even in the actual AAR), I would prefer another far left terrorist organization be used, since the RAF was only established long after WW2 under very different circumstances for a very different goal. Maybe you could use a former military or government institution, like how I had the Annionaverse versions of the Athanatoi and KGB turn to terrorism after their governments were defeated in war.
I also get the feeling this TTL's TL-191's version of the Holocaust might have also have some affect on the radicalization and militancy of this Civil Rights movement for some reason. Also, since I remember Turtledove had an Afican American socialist uprising against the CSA in OTL Southern Victory, I assume something similar would happen in the Maximist Victory's WW1 to the Maximists as well. Maybe there could also be Malian and Quechua uprisings in Siegfridist Neurhomaina and some Hellenic Pagan uprisings in the Goering Reich, to parallel the Canadian and Mormon uprisings respectively.
Yes, there was a major Marxist uprising by African Americans during WWI which led to "stab in the back" conspiracy theories promoted by Featherston's Freedom Party. Good idea on the Neurhomanian and Hellenic pagan uprisings. Maybe we could have the Hellenic pagans as a very challenging meme route with a focus tree/event chain where you restore the "original" Roman Empire.
 

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
52 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
7.951
1.435
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
Oh, and by the way, I finally got around to your suggestion @HIMDogson for incorporating Savitri Devi into the story. Hope you like it!
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
9 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.065
14
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
While we've already taken extreme liberties with the butterfly effect (and even in the actual AAR), I would prefer another far left terrorist organization be used, since the RAF was only established long after WW2 under very different circumstances for a very different goal. Maybe you could use a former military or government institution, like how I had the Annionaverse versions of the Athanatoi and KGB turn to terrorism after their governments were defeated in war.
I see. I’ll keep that in mind. Maybe some remnants of the Maximist government and military could resort to terroism after the defeat of the Republic. That would make sense.
Yes, there was a major Marxist uprising by African Americans during WWI which led to "stab in the back" conspiracy theories promoted by Featherston's Freedom Party. Good idea on the Neurhomanian and Hellenic pagan uprisings. Maybe we could have the Hellenic pagans as a very challenging meme route with a focus tree/event chain where you restore the "original" Roman Empire.
Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps Fegelein could use WW1 revolts in the provinces without Greco-Germanic majorities, like the Middle East or Hispania, as an excuse to tighten Maximist discrimination of minorities in WW2.

I agree with the idea of a unique focus tree for a Hellenic African nation for a mod like Tianxia, but I’m slightly confused by how you bought up focus trees and such in a discussion about TL-191, feel like we’re kinda off topic right now.o_O

I guess we could have TL-191 ATE be a mod that continues the story of the books in what ever way players what rather than just an alt history timeline written on an online thread like OTL or as novels. That would be cool
Oh, and by the way, I finally got around to your suggestion @HIMDogson for incorporating Savitri Devi into the story. Hope you like it!
On that note, can I use this interlude you wrote for Imperial Hearts as inspiration for an Tianxia interlude @HIMDogson ? I have an idea for an in medias res prelude in the interlude to flesh out the Middle Eastern region in that timeline and show how a hypothetical conflict could play out in the game from an in universe perspective.
 
Last edited:

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
52 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
7.951
1.435
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
I see. I’ll keep that in mind. Maybe some remnants of the Maximist government and military could resort to terroism after the defeat of the Republic. That would make sense.
Like their secret polices.
Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps Fegelein could use WW1 revolts in the provinces without Greco-Germanic majorities, like the Middle East or Hispania, as an excuse to tighten Maximist discrimination of minorities in WW2.
And depending on how radical the player wants him to be, this discrimination could be on different levels.
I agree with the idea of a unique focus tree for a Hellenic African nation for a mod like Tianxia, but I’m slightly confused by how you bought up focus trees and such in a discussion about TL-191, feel like we’re kinda off topic right now.o_O
I temporarily forgot we were talking about TL-191 Hohenzollern Empire edition, not the KR mods. Never mind.
I guess we could have TL-191 ATE be a mod that continues the story of the books in what ever way players what rather than just an alt history timeline written on an online thread like OTL or as novels. That would be cool
Why not both?
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
9 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.065
14
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
And depending on how radical the player wants him to be, this discrimination could be on different levels.
Turtledove would probably write it so that Republican-Maximist repression would have serve enough that it would caused former Siegfriedists provinces to defect to the Siegfriedist Reich when WW2 began, as you outlined in your original TL-191 summary. However, while the Siegfriedists in the WW2 set of Maximist victory books wouldn’t be as racist as the fascist Maximist, they’d still have become a little hostile and unsympathetic to minorities because of the Mailan and Queecha uprisings in WW1.
I temporarily forgot we were talking about TL-191 Hohenzollern Empire edition, not the KR mods. Never mind.
That’s okay, mistakes happen. I’ll be more clear about what I’m discussing in case you ever need clarification next time. :)
Why not both?
Good idea. We could have Turtledove get around to writing a TL-191 continuation series, tho it could be only continue until a certain point in the 1960s where’d he’d then leave how events could play out up to readers imagination, allowing fans to make a HOI4 continuation mod inspired by the KR mods with Turtledove's approval.

Anyways, let’s move back to KR for our next point of discussion, because I’ve recently just finished the Volkerschalt update for Mittagsland. Hope you like it.:)
-
Völkerschalt-Divided Reich:
Mittagsland


1610047071651.png

Flag of the Oceanic Kingdom of Mittagsland.

A long time ago, the Reich was a proud and mighty nation. It was a great nation, but that doesn’t mean we should go down with it. When the Ming exiles sent their troops to secure oceanic holdings, we welcomed them with open arms, as we would rather prefer Chinese protection than Doukas, Spartacus and Religious fanatics tearing through the once prosperous Reich. Besides, some folks in the Indochinese Dominion and the Sudafrika Commonwealth got a similar deal from the Indian Empire, and it worked out for them. You see this war in the mainland isn’t our war, we’d prefer to protect our own way of life in the Pacfic, in contrast to Doukaists, Neo-Maxmists, Crusaders and Sparacutists who’d rather turn our countrymen against each other and turn our once peaceful Reich into a smoldering ruin.

I must say that us becoming an integral part of the Tianxia Alliance is rather ironic given the Weltkrieg, feels like only yesterday when I served in local the Mittagslander legion during the Weltkrieg invading the South Island beyond us, but I know the Chinese are decent people after living amongst them in Haizhou during my childhood and settling in the South Island with my family after the war, more reasonable than our former countrymen in the mainland at least. It is a matter of fact that we have more in common with the Chinese Tianxia nations next to us than we do than with a distant European government we have nothing in common with. Even our local government is a mix of meritocratic traditions from the old Metternich system from the mainland and democratic norms from the Sinosphere, not to mention the equal recognition of both the Hohenzollern Kaiser and the Xuantong Emperor as heads of state over Mittagsland. It’s not a perfect system, but it works as a compromise for now thanks to support from the Tianxia governments and strong and stable, if rather admittedly authoritarian leadership from General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck. Unfortunately, some of our fellow Mittagslanders don’t see eye to eye with our Chinese neighbors and would rather pack up and leave to fight in the mainland than stay home and live in content with a peaceful life. Last I heard, some volunteers from my hometown were marching in the Covenant's army, chanting “Deus Vult” all the way to their untimely graves in the Middle Eastern frontlines, a real tragedy, I guess war will always find a way to destroy lives even in places completely isolated from it, I dread to think what's happening to Mittagslander volunteers serving in the opposing factions, I don’t know how they stand to fight their countrymen serving in another army or dying in an distant land away from home. If it makes you feel any better, I’m told that Jerusalem saw looting and pillaging for a month after the Covenant captured it from the Spartacus League, resulting in the burning of many religious monuments like the Third Temple by the supposedly pious Crusaders. I sure as well hope Doukas, Dandolo, Joseph and Liebneckt sleep easy at night as Roman cities burn, otherwise I’m not sure how they can live with themselves for causing so much barbarism. At least the Sudafrikans have the common sense to stay out of the madness and bloodshed north of their borders, it’s good to see some Romans having the wisdom to choose rationality over partisanism.

In reality however, while we are blessed with peace and prosperity thanks to our isolation from the mainland, we cannot ignore the Nationalist Union of China, which is not only a looming regional threat in Asia and the Pacific, but a threat to the whole world. The ravages of its dangerous communist ideology on our fine Reich is proof enough of that. That is why I support the Mittagsland government to throw its lot in with the Tianxia Alliance, for we need to stand together against the true threat rather than distract ourselves with pointless in fighting like our Roman brethren are, despite whatever naysayers and sympathizers of the European regimes say about how our loyalties should be to the be to Roman values, the Kaiser, the faith or the proletariat revolution instead of to the Ming Xuantong Emperor, among the other kinds of propaganda they spread to divide and draw away Mittagslanders from the true fight we should prepare for. That said, I hope our new Tianxia allies take that lesson to heart, despite whatever grievances the four dynasties of this alliance may have for each other, for their own sakes rather than ours. In the meantime, we’ll be enjoying whatever peace we can have for now, but when the Tianxia calls upon us for the fight against the Communists, we’ll be ready. Perhaps one day we will rejoin the Reich when the chaos is over, or even carve out our own path in Oceania, that’s up to history itself to decide. We could even move towards a more democratic direction with our political institutions in solidarity with our Tianxia comrades, or we could stick close to our meritocratic roots. Until then, we will live as free men under the rule of law, not sheep eager to serve distant dictators that don’t care about us. As long as the Pacfic remains tranquil, we will be happy to remain cut off from the world in speliend isolationism, but we won’t hesitate to defend what we value should the need arise. Don’t mess with Mittagsland, and Mittagsland won’t mess with you. I’m reminded of a phrase popular with our Maori brothers, a phrase they haven’t used since Roman colonization of Mittagsland centuries ago, Kia kaha, stay strong. From now on, we will live by these words, words that will become all the more important to follow in this new world...

Ka mate, ka mate! Ka ora! Ka ora!
 
Last edited:

TheAnguishedOne

Field Marshal
38 Badges
May 2, 2014
4.687
820
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
An interesting perspective. When your empire is crumbling, the colonies' reaction can make or break your reformation.
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
9 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.065
14
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
An interesting perspective. When your empire is crumbling, the colonies' reaction can make or break your reformation.
Yeah, whoever ends up winning the war will certainly have their work cut out for this them when it comes to rebuilding the nation. I imaging the Reich being more messed up by the Civil War than America usually ends up after its Civil War IRL Kaiserreich.

Besides, Mittagsland isn’t too stable itself despite what the narrator would say. There’s a lot of difficulty on Lettow-Vorbeck’s side when it comes to mainthing the unique but unpopular Democratic-Meritocratic hybrid government, not to mention some assassination attempts that could take his life and undo his work depending on how RNG and a few decision based event chains in the game turns out.

Anyways, here’s some bonus for the Eimerican Volkerschalt theater; particularly the situation for balkanized Mexico and Mayapan. While Mayapan wasn’t as brutaly broke up by the Reich like the Meskwaki and Twantinsuyu were, they would've faced the humiliating consequences of backing the Tianxia in the war, eventally leading to the now unpopular monarchy to get overthrown in a Republican revolution that restores the old Mayapan League, this new league could become the leader of a Republican faction in Volkerschalt would would back the Libertarian Antisuyu republic in former Twantinsuyu and would support revolutionary republican movments in Kanta, leading to a Civil war between Kanatan monarchists, republicans and Communists. Mexico would be pretty similar to HOI3 Mexico, only the break away Tarascan, Tlapanec would be opposed to Mexico due to the Aztlan party regime still remain in power. In Tianxia, both the Mayapan Kuchkabal and Aztlan Mexico would be more united and in a better shape than they would be in Volkerschalt, tho they would be caught up in the pan Eimerican war that would break out eventally in that timeline.

I'm kinda considering making the Aisin Gioro communist and making Puyi one of the potential leaders of the Nationalist Union of China. I don't know why, but something about the cursed concept of Communist Qing facing off against Capitalist Ming is hilarious, terrifying and strangely fitting, all at the same time.:p:eek:
 
Last edited:

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
52 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
7.951
1.435
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
Turtledove would probably write it so that Republican-Maximist repression would have serve enough that it would caused former Siegfriedists provinces to defect to the Siegfriedist Reich when WW2 began, as you outlined in your original TL-191 summary. However, while the Siegfriedists in the WW2 set of Maximist victory books wouldn’t be as racist as the fascist Maximist, they’d still have become a little hostile and unsympathetic to minorities because of the Mailan and Queecha uprisings in WW1.
At least make Hispania defect to the Siegfriedists since it supported the Siegfriedist/Loyalist cause both during the Maximist Wars and WW2.
Good idea. We could have Turtledove get around to writing a TL-191 continuation series, tho it could be only continue until a certain point in the 1960s where’d he’d then leave how events could play out up to readers imagination, allowing fans to make a HOI4 continuation mod inspired by the KR mods with Turtledove's approval.
Or maybe he'd do something like the authors of the 1632 series did and open up the writing process to fans, allowing them to brainstorm and give advice for future books and where the timeline could go next.
Yeah, whoever ends up winning the war will certainly have their work cut out for this them when it comes to rebuilding the nation. I imaging the Reich being more messed up by the Civil War than America usually ends up after its Civil War IRL Kaiserreich.
Especially since I just remembered that there was no New Deal equivalent in the main continuity to end the Reich's Great Depression. The economic crisis continued all the way through the war, if the war's many battles and the strain of the war economy didn't make it even worse, leaving the Reich absolutely destroyed and barely able to project global power going into NWO, hence why it couldn't do anything about the Occupied Territories, had to decolonize Indochina, and almost lost Neurhomania. The Wirtschaftswunder of Adenauer's administration in the 1950s was much more dramatic than real life Germany's economic miracle and marked the end of the economic slump the Reich had been stuck in since 1929. It would probably be way worse in this mod since instead of the fighting being between two Roman factions (and the Soviets and Axis but the Soviets only entered Roman soil late in the war and the Axis were limited to the Middle East), there are now at least four (?) factions fighting in the European heartland alone, some of them more radical and bloodthirsty than the Angeloi. The Reich will be even more divided and trampled than in the main continuity, especially if one of the radical factions wins, as I assume they'll be publicly unpopular if not hated in some areas and their leadership probably doesn't know much about basic economic planning.
Besides, Mittagsland isn’t too stable itself despite what the narrator would say. There’s a lot of difficulty on Lettow-Vorbeck’s side when it comes to mainthing the unique but unpopular Democratic-Meritocratic hybrid government, not to mention some assassination attempts that could take his life and undo his work depending on how RNG and a few decision based event chains in the game turns out.
The assassinations could come from all sides, like the other Roman factions, China, a political or military rival, or even just a disgruntled colleague. When the backer is revealed, it could cause support for them to collapse and ideologically opposite factions to attempt to seize power in the aftermath.
Anyways, here’s some bonus for the Eimerican Volkerschalt theater; particularly the situation for balkanized Mexico and Mayapan. While Mayapan wasn’t as brutaly broke up by the Reich like the Meskwaki and Twantinsuyu were, they would've faced the humiliating consequences of backing the Tianxia in the war, eventally leading to the now unpopular monarchy to get overthrown in a Republican revolution that restores the old Mayapan League, this new league could become the leader of a Republican faction in Volkerschalt would would back the Libertarian Antisuyu republic in former Twantinsuyu and would support revolutionary republican movments in Kanta, leading to a Civil war between Kanatan monarchists, republicans and Communists. Mexico would be pretty similar to HOI3 Mexico, only the break away Tarascan, Tlapanec would be opposed to Mexico due to the Aztlan party regime still remain in power. In Tianxia, both the Mayapan Kuchkabal and Aztlan Mexico would be more united and in a better shape than they would be in Volkerschalt, tho they would be caught up in the pan Eimerican war that would break out eventally in that timeline.
Perhaps the restored Mayapan League would again be a merchant-dominated league as the old one was, since the merchant class has remained the dominant social class for centuries since the exile, completely replacing the traditional nobility. There could be different merchant factions, ranging from a super-capitalist libertarian faction to a proto-Paulluist faction to one which fully embraced Pierremaskin's pan-Eimericanism. Naturally there'd also be a socialist movement organizing underground plotting to overthrow the merchant class entirely, while the royalists also rally their supporters to rein in the merchants.

You should balkanize Mexico more. Give Yucatan to an independent Mayan state (not part of Mayapan). The Tlaxcalans, Zapotecs, and others would also want to declare independence too.
I'm kinda considering making the Aisin Gioro communist and making Puyi one of the potential leaders of the Nationalist Union of China. I don't know why, but something about the cursed concept of Communist Qing facing off against Capitalist Ming is hilarious, terrifying and strangely fitting, all at the same time.
Now you absolutely have to do that.

We currently have Xuantong and Hirohito with swapped portraits. Now we need Puyi as well. Though I'm not sure how communists would rally around the former ruling clan of the old Manchu Empire.

Anyways great update! It's been added to the table of contents. Looking forward to the next one!
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
9 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.065
14
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
Or maybe he'd do something like the authors of the 1632 series did and open up the writing process to fans, allowing them to brainstorm and give advice for future books and where the timeline could go next.
Now that you brought it up I'm curious, what would an alternate history timeline with 1632's premise be like in TTL? I've never actually read the 1632 before, but it actually looks intresting now that I'm looking into it, reminds of Years of Rice and Salt in a way, ignoring the time travel.
Especially since I just remembered that there was no New Deal equivalent in the main continuity to end the Reich's Great Depression. The economic crisis continued all the way through the war, if the war's many battles and the strain of the war economy didn't make it even worse, leaving the Reich absolutely destroyed and barely able to project global power going into NWO, hence why it couldn't do anything about the Occupied Territories, had to decolonize Indochina, and almost lost Neurhomania. The Wirtschaftswunder of Adenauer's administration in the 1950s was much more dramatic than real life Germany's economic miracle and marked the end of the economic slump the Reich had been stuck in since 1929. It would probably be way worse in this mod since instead of the fighting being between two Roman factions (and the Soviets and Axis but the Soviets only entered Roman soil late in the war and the Axis were limited to the Middle East), there are now at least four (?) factions fighting in the European heartland alone, some of them more radical and bloodthirsty than the Angeloi. The Reich will be even more divided and trampled than in the main continuity, especially if one of the radical factions wins, as I assume they'll be publicly unpopular if not hated in some areas and their leadership probably doesn't know much about basic economic planning.
Yeah, that's not even mentioning the possible ways the new regime that takes over could collapse again. I swear, Volkerschalt becomes more of the Crapsack world the more I write up about it, I'm starting to feel that its getting out of my control. At the very least, they're pockets of hope outside of the Reich in Sudafrika, India, and the anti Communist Tianxia alliance if they get their act together. Even the belligerent Roman factions have pockets of reasonable moderates and reformers amougst their power base, even if their influence in those regimes are overshadowed by more vocal and bloodthirsty radicals and demagogues in those factions' inner circles.

As terrible as things are for the Volkerscaht Reich, at least it's not a full on Mingsplosion like in Tianxia. Good thing we have China to take the Reich's place as the center of the global economy, geopoltics and culure, otherwise Tianxia would be even more screwed than Volkerschalt. :eek:

Besides, at least Crown Atomic will still be interesting with an AAR for each timeline.;)
Speaking of which, I think I'll settle with the Covenant becoming the cannon winner of the Civil War in Volkerschalt's version of the Crown Atomic AAR, or the New Restoration as it would be called ,with Michael Anatolios becoming the equivalent of Couglin/Pelley as one the leaders of a third civil war in that AAR because why not.:p

Also, I think there was a chapter or two in either early HOI3 or late Vicky 2 that mentioned some sort of New Deal that Otto implemented but Angelos took credit for, leading to a boost to Angelos' popularity and power. Granted, if we're talking realistically, then I don't think any form of economic progress from New Deal polices would have lasted for long thanks to the devastation the Reich faced in WW2, unlike OTL USA which was safe from any form of fighting on its homeland and was able to project power outside its sphere as a result, something none of the participating powers of TTL WW2 was able to accomplish for a while.
Perhaps the restored Mayapan League would again be a merchant-dominated league as the old one was, since the merchant class has remained the dominant social class for centuries since the exile, completely replacing the traditional nobility. There could be different merchant factions, ranging from a super-capitalist libertarian faction to a proto-Paulluist faction to one which fully embraced Pierremaskin's pan-Eimericanism. Naturally there'd also be a socialist movement organizing underground plotting to overthrow the merchant class entirely, while the royalists also rally their supporters to rein in the merchants.

You should balkanize Mexico more. Give Yucatan to an independent Mayan state (not part of Mayapan). The Tlaxcalans, Zapotecs, and others would also want to declare independence too.
Great suggestions, more detailed and thought out than my original plan for those two countries in Volkerschalt honestly.

I found your description for TTL HOI and I was wondering, based off the mechanics you described in the quote below, how would the Tianxia and Volkerschalt mods most likely play out from a gameplay and balance perspective?
Hearts of Iron would have a bigger focus on internal politics and the war economy as well as on combat, since everybody is already a big blob. Resistance cells would be more important, and major characters would not only be represented in the politics screen but also on the map by counters, where they can be captured or killed by the enemy.
Now you absolutely have to do that.

We currently have Xuantong and Hirohito with swapped portraits. Now we need Puyi as well. Though I'm not sure how communists would rally around the former ruling clan of the old Manchu Empire.
In the Communist China update, I have a paragraph talking about the NUC's origins and how the revolution that exiled the Ming began with Communist uprisings in Machuria, Mongolia and Siberia and how the Army that was sent to quell the rebellions ended up defecting to the revolutionaries when the reached Bejing and pushed the Ming all the way to the Pearl River Delta when the rallying of anti Communist forces from Vietnam, Penglai and Fusang at a key battle stalled an offensive and caused the Communists and Tianxia to declare a ceasefire that would last until the late game of the Tianxia mod begins. I guess we could Puyi and his clan ally themselves in a pragmatic alliance with the Communists to fufil his ambitions, while he'd win the loyalty of the former Ming army and several defectors from the Goumingdang and Fuxingdoung parties due to a far left populist stance and charisma. The defeat that allows the Ming dyansty to survive the revolution would be chalked up to incompetent and disloyal underlings failing to execute Puyi's plan effectively by communist propaganda in favor of Puyi’s cult of personality.
Anyways great update! It's been added to the table of contents. Looking forward to the next one!
Thanks for the compliment, but don't forget about the help you gave me along the way. Your suggestions and ideas really helped to improve this update a lot IMO.
 
Last edited:

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
52 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
7.951
1.435
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
Now that you brought it up I'm curious, what would an alternate history timeline with 1632's premise be like in TTL? I've never actually read the 1632 before, but it actually looks intresting now that I'm looking into it, reminds of Years of Rice and Salt in a way, ignoring the time travel.
Basically 1632 is where a West Virginia town in the 1990s is teleported back to Germany in 1632 (hence the series title) and gets involved in the Thirty Years' War. An entire town was decided on because previous fiction where a single person gets time displaced was considered to not be able to make a meaningful impact on history, while an entire community with working infrastructure and complete institutions can. Basically the town starts introducing future technology (like advanced guns and heavy industry) and ideas (like liberalism and democracy) into the past, with the goal of overthrowing the Holy Roman Empire and replacing it with a democratic United States of Europe. This is achieved with the help of Sweden. Other Americans mess with other major powers like the papacy and even the Ming and Mughals.

I'm not sure how 1632 would work in Hohenzollern Empire because the whole premise relies on an American town being sent back in time to 17th century Europe and the culture shock both sides experience. If a Roman town was sent back in time to roughly where it was 300 years ago, I'm pretty sure the culture shock wouldn't be as bad, although it would open up a storyline where the future townspeople interact with the 17th century version of their town. The idea of the townspeople overthrowing the Holy Roman Empire and establishing a democratic republic is out of the question in Hohenzollern Empire since the time travelers are still Romans. Since the Scandinavians are in the middle of their centuries of war with Russia at this point, allying with them is also out of the question. I guess we could still have the town introducing future technology and the future Augustinian Code to the past Reich, with Frederica Augusta and the Inquisition wary about the changes since the Ottonian system feels very alien to Frederica Augusta's absolutism. This would be in the middle of the Fifty Years' War, so maybe the town would have to defend against heretic militias and offer their technology to the Throne in exchange for the numerical superiority of the army. Some townspeople with their future secular attitudes might be sympathetic with the heretics and try to broker a more peaceful solution. Others might go east and try to prevent the forming of the Lithuanian-Ruthenian Commonwealth, while Giedre, who historically invested heavily in military advances, might seek future books, weapons, and sympathizers to strengthen her forces, found the Commonwealth earlier, and prevent its decline by taking out Russia more decisively or even going after the weakened Reich. Scandinavia and Russia would definitely seek out future weaponry and military instructors to get an edge over the other. The Mongols and Manchus might also try to get future books and technology to reunite their empires and stop the Chinese advance, while the Tran might try to avoid their future of being annexed by a Ming-led China by taking over the Ming first, breaking the multi-emperor system centuries ahead of schedule. And just because, we could have the Jin and Song invest heavily in getting future technology so they can actually retake the mainland.
Yeah, that's not even mentioning the possible ways the new regime that takes over could collapse again. I swear, Volkerschalt becomes more of the Crapsack world the more I write up about it, I'm starting to feel that its getting out of my control. At the very least, they're pockets of hope outside of the Reich in Sudafrika, India, and the anti Communist Tianxia alliance if they get their act together. Even the belligerent Roman factions have pockets of reasonable moderates and reformers amougst their power base, even if their influence in those regimes are overshadowed by more vocal and bloodthirsty radicals and demagogues in those factions' inner circles.
This is also the timeline where my first attempt at Hohenzollern Empire TL-191 turned first into Draka and then 1984, so it's not unexpected. There is hope that the Tianxia could pull things together, while Sudafrika holds on.
As terrible as things are for the Volkerscaht Reich, at least it's not a full on Mingsplosion like in Tianxia. Good thing we have China to take the Reich's place as the center of the global economy, geopoltics and culure, otherwise Tianxia would be even more screwed than Volkerschalt. :eek:
Yeah.
Speaking of which, I think I'll settle with the Covenant becoming the cannon winner of the Civil War in Volkerschalt's version of the Crown Atomic AAR, or the New Restoration as it would be called ,with Michael Anatolios becoming the equivalent of Couglin/Pelley as one the leaders of a third civil war in that AAR because why not.:p
I'm not sure how to feel about Michael Anatolios, since I have not talked much about his Hohenzollernverse version, if I even wrote about him at all. From the joke interlude I wrote in Imperial Hearts I think I implied he was either dead or irrelevant in the Hohenzollernverse, presumably long before the point of divergence since he did take power in 1910 in the Annionaverse. Maybe we could have another person stand in for Coughlin/Pelley.
Also, I think there was a chapter or two in either early HOI3 or late Vicky 2 that mentioned some sort of New Deal that Otto implemented but Angelos took credit for, leading to a boost to Angelos' popularity and power. Granted, if we're talking realistically, then I don't think any form of economic progress from New Deal polices would have lasted for long thanks to the devastation the Reich faced in WW2, unlike OTL USA which was safe from any form of fighting on its homeland and was able to project power outside its sphere as a result, something none of the participating powers of TTL WW2 was able to accomplish for a while.
That does sound like something I'd write, but I looked back at the chapters between Black Tuesday and the outbreak of WWII and I can't find anything resembling a "New Deal" that Otto implemented and Angelos took credit for, though I did find plenty of "economic recovery" laws that Angelos received credit for, boosting his popularity and power.

Realistically, Angelos probably would've impeded the progress of the New Deal, which was very progressive and left-wing in some areas. Angelos is anti-left and would seek to only implement parts that would benefit his Christian and German base, as well as corporate and dynatoi backers, while discarding the rest as equalist propaganda. So while there would be the appearance of economic recovery, economic inequality would still remain if not be worsened, especially when combined with his discriminatory laws. And of course any actual economic recovery made in those years would be erased by Angelos himself as his forces would rampage across the heartland to fight the Loyalists. When the Angeloi overran pro-Loyalist territories like Hispania, Greece, and Anatolia, they would try to dismantle or destroy local industry and carry out reprisals against local populations, thinning the number of potential workers. And when he started losing, he would try to burn as much of it as possible, though ultimately his Nero Decree to completely burn down what was left was never executed. Now obviously the Loyalists are also at fault because of their highly destructive strategic bombing late in the war. The end result is the entire Roman heartland is in ruins, which means Otto and the Loyalists could barely project power outside of Europe for years afterward. Again, this is why Otto and Adenauer decolonized Indochina, almost lost Neurhomania, and could only put up token resistance to the Soviets in the Occupied Territories while building their own nuclear bomb, protecting what's left of the nation, and rebuilding the economy before the Wirtschaftswunder began.
Great suggestions, more detailed and thought out than my original plan for those two countries in Volkerschalt honestly.
I also forgot to mention there should also be a neo-corporatist faction too, claiming inspiration from the short-lived Corporate Republic of Kanata. Although I'd prefer not to use the phrase corporatist at this point because it is associated with a different right-wing ideology.
I found your description for TTL HOI and I was wondering, based off the mechanics you described in the quote below, how would the Tianxia and Volkerschalt mods most likely play out from a gameplay and balance perspective?
Like the vanilla PDX games there'd probably be balance issues because the blobs would, you know, blob. There'd probably be more focus on internal mechanics because there are so many blobs in Hohenzollern Empire, while the AI would be less disposed to declare war, instead focusing on espionage and diplomacy.
In the Communist China update, I have a paragraph talking about the NUC's origins and how the revolution that exiled the Ming began with Communist uprisings in Machuria, Mongolia and Siberia and how the Army that was sent to quell the rebellions ended up defecting to the revolutionaries when the reached Bejing and pushed the Ming all the way to the Pearl River Delta when the rallying of anti Communist forces from Vietnam, Penglai and Fusang at a key battle stalled an offensive and caused the Communists and Tianxia to declare a ceasefire that would last until the late game of the Tianxia mod begins. I guess we could Puyi and his clan ally themselves in a pragmatic alliance with the Communists to fufil his ambitions, while he'd win the loyalty of the former Ming army and several defectors from the Goumingdang and Fuxingdoung parties due to a far left populist stance and charisma. The defeat that allows the Ming dyansty to survive the revolution would be chalked up to incompetent and disloyal underlings failing to execute Puyi's plan effectively by communist propaganda.
Interesting that you have the battle of the Pearl River Delta as the one that saves the Tianxia forces. The "Miracle of the Pearl River" could be a parallel to the last stand of the Song many centuries ago, where the army sacrificed itself there so that the fleet with the emperor could escape.

Also have you planned anything for possible internal conflicts within Tianxia China? The Tran never wanted to join the empire, but now that the Ming are brought low, they might try to get revenge and kick them out. Penglai might want to extract concessions from the Ming, like ending their colony status and seeing the Song dynasty reinstated. Although Fusang willingly joined the empire, they might want to sit out the conflict since they're on the other side of the Pacific and some might believe a war in Asia is not theirs to fight while others might want to restore an independent Jin dynasty.

There could also be an internal event chain for the NUC where Puyi and the communist leaders scheme against each other, kind of like what was presented in OTL KR's Romania dev diary recently. The two sides would be in a temporary alliance with a common goal in overthrowing the Ming, but once they accomplish that (or well before that happens under certain circumstances), they would turn on each other. The breaking point is the revelation that Puyi had sabotaged the communist forces at the Pearl River and allowed the Tianxia forces to survive. This would lead to all out war between the two sides. In one outcome, Puyi and his supporters would expel the communists and reform the NUC into the Qing dynasty. If this happened before defeating the Ming and the Tianxia, Puyi can either offer to rejoin the Chinese empire with a new constituent empire on the level of the Jin, Tran, and Song in Mongolia, Manchuria, and Siberia, or (the only option if the Ming are already defeated) he can defeat and reform the Tianxia, conquer the empire, and reorganize it with the Qing at the helm. In the other outcome, the communists win and purge Puyi and the Aisin Gioros before turning on the surviving noble clans and other moderates in a bloody campaign of terror. If the war with the Ming was not started yet, the NUC would immediately declare war. If the war was started but not won yet, the NUC troops would get a significant morale boost and the Tianxia forces a morale penalty, but at the cost of the NUC troop organization being weakened as the officer corps was purged. If the Tianxia were defeated at this point (or after the two options above were triggered), the NUC would expand the purges to the Ming, Song, Tran, and Jin nobilities as well as other moderates, rightists, and alleged anti-communists throughout the former empire. After all this happens, the NUC could either consolidate their gains and rebuild a "Red Tianxia" alliance with what they have already or continue expanding, with event chains and focus trees for expanding across Eurasia and the Eimericas.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
9 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.065
14
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
I'm not sure how 1632 would work in Hohenzollern Empire because the whole premise relies on an American town being sent back in time to 17th century Europe and the culture shock both sides experience. If a Roman town was sent back in time to roughly where it was 300 years ago, I'm pretty sure the culture shock wouldn't be as bad, although it would open up a storyline where the future townspeople interact with the 17th century version of their town. The idea of the townspeople overthrowing the Holy Roman Empire and establishing a democratic republic is out of the question in Hohenzollern Empire since the time travelers are still Romans. Since the Scandinavians are in the middle of their centuries of war with Russia at this point, allying with them is also out of the question. I guess we could still have the town introducing future technology and the future Augustinian Code to the past Reich, with Frederica Augusta and the Inquisition wary about the changes since the Ottonian system feels very alien to Frederica Augusta's absolutism. This would be in the middle of the Fifty Years' War, so maybe the town would have to defend against heretic militias and offer their technology to the Throne in exchange for the numerical superiority of the army. Some townspeople with their future secular attitudes might be sympathetic with the heretics and try to broker a more peaceful solution. Others might go east and try to prevent the forming of the Lithuanian-Ruthenian Commonwealth, while Giedre, who historically invested heavily in military advances, might seek future books, weapons, and sympathizers to strengthen her forces, found the Commonwealth earlier, and prevent its decline by taking out Russia more decisively or even going after the weakened Reich. Scandinavia and Russia would definitely seek out future weaponry and military instructors to get an edge over the other. The Mongols and Manchus might also try to get future books and technology to reunite their empires and stop the Chinese advance, while the Tran might try to avoid their future of being annexed by a Ming-led China by taking over the Ming first, breaking the multi-emperor system centuries ahead of schedule. And just because, we could have the Jin and Song invest heavily in getting future technology so they can actually retake the mainland.
Huh, this actually a more detailed and thought out response than I expected to get. Very interesting, honestly I wouldn't mind seeing this post on the table of contents.
This is also the timeline where my first attempt at Hohenzollern Empire TL-191 turned first into Draka and then 1984, so it's not unexpected. There is hope that the Tianxia could pull things together, while Sudafrika holds on.
Funny that you mention Draka, because I'm actually brainstorming ideas for an detailed Domination interlude that I’ll post sometime in the vague future. The point of Divergence I have in mind for Hohenzollernverse's Draka would be that the Triple Alliance takes the opportunity to invade Neurhomainia while the Reich is distracted by the Fifty Years War, forcing the heretics and the colonial government of Neurhomaina to put aside their differences to fight back against the Mexica army, with the heretics using very effective guerrilla strategies against the Mexica earning them mass sympathy and support from Neurhomaina's population. I imagine the inquisition would notice the Neurhomainan heretics beating back the Mexica and reluctantly choosing to tolerate them, maybe settling them away from Neurhomaina's population centers like new Berlin in favor of some where up north, like Guyana. I don't think the Domination of Merika that would form would be as reliant on slavery or ideological focused on it as OTL Draka are, but they'd still be as xenophobic and militaristic as the Draka are due to hostility to the Reich because of the Fifty Years War and a rivalry with Mexico due to a centuries long series of back and forth wars that last all the until the books begin in the middle of WW2. I imagine it’s government would be like a Paulist republic mixed in with theocratic elements similar to OTL puritanical governments of 17th century New England.
I'm not sure how to feel about Michael Anatolios, since I have not talked much about his Hohenzollernverse version, if I even wrote about him at all. From the joke interlude I wrote in Imperial Hearts I think I implied he was either dead or irrelevant in the Hohenzollernverse, presumably long before the point of divergence since he did take power in 1910 in the Annionaverse. Maybe we could have another person stand in for Coughlin/Pelley.
I suppose you're right, looks like I'll be sticking to my original plan of having a orginal character replacing Coughlin/Pelley's role in the post war Covenant then.

I did mention a possibility of the Imperial Union State's government to fall apart due to a national populist take over after the war and a bloody purge of politcal enemies after that, so I guess we could always give them a Pelley equlivent as a foil to Dandolo's role as a Heuy Long analogue. I was thinking that Julius Evola would be a good fit for several reasons: he's a pretty obscure figure in real life, which makes him perfect for something that likes to turn obscure characters into major players like Kaiserreich. His radical conservative ideology would obviously put him at odds with Communist remnants after the war as well suppoters of Doukas' regency, but he'd also crack down harshly on surviving clergy that supported the Coveant since the real life Evola was strongly anti christian and would probally despise the inclusive Orthodox church of the Hohenzollern Empire more so than he hated the Catholic Church in OTL.
Like the vanilla PDX games there'd probably be balance issues because the blobs would, you know, blob. There'd probably be more focus on internal mechanics because there are so many blobs in Hohenzollern Empire, while the AI would be less disposed to declare war, instead focusing on espionage and diplomacy.
Now that we're talking about Paradox games in the Hohenzollernverse again, why am I picturing picturing many CK2 players choosing to play as Hassan and having him try to defeat Fredrich the Great in the 1066 start date as a challenge? I mean, I imagine that historians and the average Roman citizens probably wouldn't know about Hassan's allegiance to an eldritch cult desiring world (eventually universal and multiversal) domination and the creation of a totalitarian autocracy dedicated to spreading the influence of an cosmic entity across the universe, so I imagine most Romans would probably see him as some sort of Saladin like hero just defending Islamic civilization from aggressive enemies instead of the villain we saw him as in Wilhelm’s flashback . Maybe there would be an achievement for defeating Fredrich the Great's death stacks and even forming a Roman Caliphate in place of the Reich. Who knows, it could even make for interesting mega campaigns and AARs in TTL, wouldn’t that be meta.:p
Interesting that you have the battle of the Pearl River Delta as the one that saves the Tianxia forces. The "Miracle of the Pearl River" could be a parallel to the last stand of the Song many centuries ago, where the army sacrificed itself there so that the fleet with the emperor could escape.
Sounds good, I'll be sure to mention the parallel in the Ming exiles update that will wrap up these Volkerschalt interludes.
Also have you planned anything for possible internal conflicts within Tianxia China? The Tran never wanted to join the empire, but now that the Ming are brought low, they might try to get revenge and kick them out. Penglai might want to extract concessions from the Ming, like ending their colony status and seeing the Song dynasty reinstated. Although Fusang willingly joined the empire, they might want to sit out the conflict since they're on the other side of the Pacific and some might believe a war in Asia is not theirs to fight while others might want to restore an independent Jin dynasty.

There could also be an internal event chain for the NUC where Puyi and the communist leaders scheme against each other, kind of like what was presented in OTL KR's Romania dev diary recently. The two sides would be in a temporary alliance with a common goal in overthrowing the Ming, but once they accomplish that (or well before that happens under certain circumstances), they would turn on each other. The breaking point is the revelation that Puyi had sabotaged the communist forces at the Pearl River and allowed the Tianxia forces to survive. This would lead to all out war between the two sides. In one outcome, Puyi and his supporters would expel the communists and reform the NUC into the Qing dynasty. If this happened before defeating the Ming and the Tianxia, Puyi can either offer to rejoin the Chinese empire with a new constituent empire on the level of the Jin, Tran, and Song in Mongolia, Manchuria, and Siberia, or (the only option if the Ming are already defeated) he can defeat and reform the Tianxia, conquer the empire, and reorganize it with the Qing at the helm. In the other outcome, the communists win and purge Puyi and the Aisin Gioros before turning on the surviving noble clans and other moderates in a bloody campaign of terror. If the war with the Ming was not started yet, the NUC would immediately declare war. If the war was started but not won yet, the NUC troops would get a significant morale boost and the Tianxia forces a morale penalty, but at the cost of the NUC troop organization being weakened as the officer corps was purged. If the Tianxia were defeated at this point (or after the two options above were triggered), the NUC would expand the purges to the Ming, Song, Tran, and Jin nobilities as well as other moderates, rightists, and alleged anti-communists throughout the former empire. After all this happens, the NUC could either consolidate their gains and rebuild a "Red Tianxia" alliance with what they have already or continue expanding, with event chains and focus trees for expanding across Eurasia and the Eimericas.
Great suggestions, love the ideas you have for internal power struggles in the NUC and disputes between the Tianxia dynasties. Granted, I'll probally have the narration of the Ming Exiles update imply a cohesive and united Tianxia alliance determined to fight the Communists, but certainly consider them as challenges NUC or Ming players would have keeping their factions together before major event that is WW2 takes place.

Also, I believe India should play a major role in the Tianxia vs Communist China conflict since, with the Reich imploding, India would be the Nationalist Union of China’s strongest enemy aside from Tianxia. For the Tianxia, maybe India could have the choice of either helping the Ming take down the NUC or have one of the three other dynasties subvert the Ming as the leaders of the Sinosphere, while if the NUC defeat the Tianxia first then India could support Puyi and his nationalist faction against his former Communist allies. Obviously the Communist party of the NUC would probably want revenge against India for contributing to China’s defeat in WW1 and taking frontier western provinces like Xinjang and Tibet from them, so they’d likely declare on both the Tianxia and India at the same time and try to kill two birds with one stone.
 
Last edited:

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
52 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
7.951
1.435
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
Huh, this actually a more detailed and thought out response than I expected to get. Very interesting, honestly I wouldn't mind seeing this post on the table of contents.
I'll add it after this goes up.
Funny that you mention Draka, because I'm actually brainstorming ideas for an detailed Domination interlude that I’ll post sometime in the vague future. The point of Divergence I have in mind for Hohenzollernverse's Draka would be that the Triple Alliance takes the opportunity to invade Neurhomainia while the Reich is distracted by the Fifty Years War, forcing the heretics and the colonial government of Neurhomaina to put aside their differences to fight back against the Mexica army, with the heretics using very effective guerrilla strategies against the Mexica earning them mass sympathy and support from Neurhomaina's population. I imagine the inquisition would notice the Neurhomainan heretics beating back the Mexica and reluctantly choosing to tolerate them, maybe settling them away from Neurhomaina's population centers like new Berlin in favor of some where up north, like Guyana. I don't think the Domination of Merika that would form would be as reliant on slavery or ideological focused on it as OTL Draka are, but they'd still be as xenophobic and militaristic as the Draka are due to hostility to the Reich because of the Fifty Years War and a rivalry with Mexico due to a centuries long series of back and forth wars that last all the until the books begin in the middle of WW2. I imagine it’s government would be like a Paulist republic mixed in with theocratic elements similar to OTL puritanical governments of 17th century New England.
Not sure about removing the slavery motivation since that drives a lot of the later books. Also there's no way a Draka Neurhomania would allow Mexico to survive that long. It also wouldn't be good for book pacing if Mexico survives up to WW2. Maybe have Neurhomania conquer Mexico and the rest of the Eimericas within 100-150 years and then have the later books focus on Neurhomania expanding across the Atlantic or Pacific.
I did mention a possibility of the Imperial Union State's government to fall apart due to a national populist take over after the war and a bloody purge of politcal enemies after that, so I guess we could always give them a Pelley equlivent as a foil to Dandolo's role as a Heuy Long analogue. I was thinking that Julius Evola would be a good fit for several reasons: he's a pretty obscure figure in real life, which makes him perfect for something that likes to turn obscure characters into major players like Kaiserreich. His radical conservative ideology would obviously put him at odds with Communist remnants after the war as well suppoters of Doukas' regency, but he'd also crack down harshly on surviving clergy that supported the Coveant since the real life Evola was strongly anti christian and would probally despise the inclusive Orthodox church of the Hohenzollern Empire more so than he hated the Catholic Church in OTL.
He could be a good postwar leader.
Now that we're talking about Paradox games in the Hohenzollernverse again, why am I picturing picturing many CK2 players choosing to play as Hassan and having him try to defeat Fredrich the Great in the 1066 start date as a challenge? I mean, I imagine that historians and the average Roman citizens probably wouldn't know about Hassan's allegiance to an eldritch cult desiring world (eventually universal and multiversal) domination and the creation of a totalitarian autocracy dedicated to spreading the influence of an cosmic entity across the universe, so I imagine most Romans would probably see him as some sort of Saladin like hero just defending Islamic civilization from aggressive enemies instead of the villain we saw him as in Wilhelm’s flashback . Maybe there would be an achievement for defeating Fredrich the Great's death stacks and even forming a Roman Caliphate in place of the Reich. Who knows, it could even make for interesting mega campaigns and AARs in TTL, wouldn’t that be meta.:p
I guess 1066 would have a similar setup to OTL but with Hassan now as a playable character appearing on the start screen near the other important characters. He'd be a minor vassal of Caliph al-Mustansir who starts as his vizier. He has a large starting army generating by event and some good traits and stats. There'd be an event chain when Friedrich the Great appears and starts invading the Middle East (either by event chain or through the AI being more likely to do it on its own) where he could travel across the different Islamic realms to raise his own coalition to repel Friedrich the Great (getting combat bonuses to counter Friedrich the Great's doomstacks), culminating in a battle event which fires if the two are in the same battle. Depending on combat skill, one of them will emerge on top although the AI chances are weighted in favor of Friedrich the Great if the player is not involved. Should Hassan win, he could try to reunite the old caliphate, either under the Abbasids, Fatimids, or himself, and then go after Europe. I agree there should be an achievement for conquering Europe and establishing a Roman Caliphate.

There are probably children's stories and obscure rumors that Hassan was working with a secret cult, though the details vary and most people and historians consider them fabrications made by Friedrich the Great's supporters to demonize Hassan. I think a character briefly talks about a children's game based on Hassan in a future update. He has been rehabilitated since then as minorities and Muslims embrace him as a good man and inspiring leader caught up on the wrong side of a war, whose death, as tragic as it was, was necessary for the Restoration to take place later on.
Sounds good, I'll be sure to mention the parallel in the Ming exiles update that will wrap up these Volkerschalt interludes.
Speaking of which, where are the Ming exiles based again?
Great suggestions, love the ideas you have for internal power struggles in the NUC and disputes between the Tianxia dynasties. Granted, I'll probally have the narration of the Ming Exiles update imply a cohesive and united Tianxia alliance determined to fight the Communists, but certainly consider them as challenges NUC or Ming players would have keeping their factions together before major event that is WW2 takes place.
The Ming obviously still consider themselves the center of the empire and the leaders of the fight against the communists, leaving them a little oblivious at times as to what the other dynasties want. Maybe to distract from their own internal conflicts, the NUC would try to stir up dissent and disunity within the Tianxia, like supporting Fusang's neutrality movement or Vietnam's independence or subverting the Song restoration into a communist revolution.
Also, I believe India should play a major role in the Tianxia vs Communist China conflict since, with the Reich imploding, India would be the Nationalist Union of China’s strongest enemy aside from Tianxia. For the Tianxia, maybe India could have the choice of either helping the Ming take down the NUC or have one of the three other dynasties subvert the Ming as the leaders of the Sinosphere, while if the NUC defeat the Tianxia first then India could support Puyi and his nationalist faction against his former Communist allies. Obviously the Communist party of the NUC would probably want revenge against India for contributing to China’s defeat in WW1 and taking frontier western provinces like Xinjang and Tibet from them, so they’d likely declare on both the Tianxia and India at the same time and try to kill two birds with one stone.
India in the Imperial Century was not really on friendly terms with the Tran despite both of them being Roman allies, as the Tran viewed India as plotting to expand into Southeast Asia and the Indians saw the Tran as an economic rival possibly threatening the Maritime Southeast Asia colonies and cutting the supply lines to and from Daksina Jamina. India here might not be likely to help the Tran subvert the Ming as that would just revive their old rival as a serious threat, but they might be willing to support the Song restoration movement, though as an Indian protectorate serving as a buffer state for Daksina Jamina. The Jin are likely too far away to be interacted with.

I wouldn't put it above India to form a temporary alliance with the Ming against the NUC though. The Indian government would be even more scared of communists than a resurgent Ming-led China. Under certain circumstances, if both governments have the right ideology and made the right event and focus tree choices, India may even join the NUC-Tianxia war on the Ming's side. If the NUC already won the war, India would definitely support Puyi's faction and stir up unrest in the former Ming and Tran lands, maybe even sending troops to occupy the rest of Penglai for itself. If the communists win the power struggle, they will be absolutely enraged by India. If the Ming are defeated and they are not already at war with India (through the previous war), they will declare war. If the war with the Ming hasn't started yet, they will start the war and also declare war on India. After the war and their eventual victory, they will install a Union of India as a loyal "Red Tianxia" puppet before turning to the Middle East and Central Asia should the right focus tree be taken.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
9 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.065
14
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
Not sure about removing the slavery motivation since that drives a lot of the later books. Also there's no way a Draka Neurhomania would allow Mexico to survive that long. It also wouldn't be good for book pacing if Mexico survives up to WW2. Maybe have Neurhomania conquer Mexico and the rest of the Eimericas within 100-150 years and then have the later books focus on Neurhomania expanding across the Atlantic or Pacific.
I see your agrument about the slavery thing, but I remember the EU4 and Vicky 2 segments described the Atlantic slave trade in TTL as being a lot smaller than OTL, so the Merikans probably wouldn’t have a big population of slaves to work off of. Then again, I suppose they could Institute a form of racially blind slavery much earlier than the Draka. It could also try to delay the Reich's abolition of the slave trade or even declare Independence the moment Kaiserin Victoria II "the Emancipator" puts her foot down on the slavery issue.

As for the Mexico thing, I was originally gonna go for Operation Sunrise Invasion not happening or going badly to justify them existing as a strong empire until Merikan Neurhomania declares war on them in the middle of WW2, but I’m considering changing it to what you just said. Maybe the Domination of Merika could fight fascist Twantinsuyu in WW2, having not conquered them before due to the Andean mountains and the Amazon rain forest in the way geographically. Maybe the Domination of Merika could adopt Pierremaskin's pan Eimerican ideology and take it much further, wishing to expand across the Pacific and Atlantic.
Speaking of which, where are the Ming exiles based again?
At the moment, Tawain, the Pearl River delta, and any other Chinese colony that isn’t ruled by the other dynasties, like parts of Japan (Ainu Monsir is communist, the shogunate is independent and Imperial Japan is a Tianxia puppet state) and the Philippines amoug others. It’s pretty small compared to the other dynasties I know, but they could make up for it with a boost to industrial capacity and division training.

Your other ideas for India, the Tianxia and the NUC are great. I'll try to find a way to incorporate them into my Indian, NUC and Ming updates if I can.
 
Last edited: