The Hohenzollern Empire 5: Holy Phoenix - An Empire of Jerusalem Megacampaign in New World Order

[GhostRider124]

Thinking about what could be done to the Reich in the DE during WW2 and the Cold War. These are my suggestions and they're mainly inspired by yours and CaptainAlvious’s conversations about the 1900’s, what happened in both OTL and what happened in dragoon9105’s “Annionaverse” and cookfl’s “The Crown Atomic” stories.

WW2
Europe
For Europe I do not see it devolving into Civil War but instead events like OTL’s West Virginia coal wars 1912-1921 and the Bonus Army March on Washington July 28, 1932 could lead to Markos Angelos and the Angelos coming to power in a similar manner that Benito Mussolini and Ioannis Metaxas came to power. But again instead of a civil war the battle between Otto and Markos could be more cloak and dagger. Then the Soviets invaded Poland in 1939 similar to what happened in OTL with the Axis nations of Persia, Mali and Ethiopia invading the middle east and Africa through a deal similar to OTL’s Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact causing the two leaders to set aside their differences. Then the Reich and China defeat the Axis but the Soviets keep their land in Eastern Europe. Otto uses this to paint the Angelos as incompetent leading to the Angelos to lose the 1945 Examination to the Christian Meritocratic Union/Christian Social Union?

Africa
In Africa due to the invasions by Mali and Ethiopia I could see those events play out the same. There could be an invasion of East Africa by Indian Raj as Gandhi wants to get rid of the royalist for good?

Cold War
Africa
For Africa I believe CaptainAlvious recommended something like the Algerian War of Independence. In were something like the Neurhomaina Emergency we talked about there could be an equalists faction aided by the Soviet’s, a nationalist faction like the National Liberation Front aided by China and an unofficial Pro-Roman faction like the Organisation armée secrète/Secret Armed Organization. I could see two things happening, one they are once again ignored leading to the Roman Governors in Africa to want to break away like they are now or something like Françafrique?

Europe
For Europe the pyrrhic victory in Africa coupled with the loss during the Siam War, the Counterculture Movement and the attacks by the Red Army Faction the Soviets could see the Reich as weak leading to their invasion in the 90’s leading to WW3?

 

[CaptainAlvious]

WW2
Europe
For Europe I do not see it devolving into Civil War but instead events like OTL’s West Virginia coal wars 1912-1921 and the Bonus Army March on Washington July 28, 1932 could lead to Markos Angelos and the Angelos coming to power in a similar manner that Benito Mussolini and Ioannis Metaxas came to power. But again instead of a civil war the battle between Otto and Markos could be more cloak and dagger. Then the Soviets invaded Poland in 1939 similar to what happened in OTL with the Axis nations of Persia, Mali and Ethiopia invading the middle east and Africa through a deal similar to OTL’s Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact causing the two leaders to set aside their differences. Then the Reich and China defeat the Axis but the Soviets keep their land in Eastern Europe. Otto uses this to paint the Angelos as incompetent leading to the Angelos to lose the 1945 Examination to the Christian Meritocratic Union/Christian Social Union?

Sorry, but there’s a lot of stuff I don’t agree with or think would work here. I think keeping the civil war would work better than this approach, because otherwise the Reich would easily steam roll the Axis and Soviets. Besides China, there‘s no other power that can take on the Reich in a conventional war. Also the Soviets attacking the Reich directly in 39 doesn’t make strategic sense and seems kinda suicidal. I honestly feel like the civil war is necessary for WW2 to work at all.

The other stuff in your post I don’t have a problem with, it’s just this section I have criticisms with.

 

[zenphoenix]

For Europe I do not see it devolving into Civil War but instead events like OTL’s West Virginia coal wars 1912-1921 and the Bonus Army March on Washington July 28, 1932 could lead to Markos Angelos and the Angelos coming to power in a similar manner that Benito Mussolini and Ioannis Metaxas came to power. But again instead of a civil war the battle between Otto and Markos could be more cloak and dagger. Then the Soviets invaded Poland in 1939 similar to what happened in OTL with the Axis nations of Persia, Mali and Ethiopia invading the middle east and Africa through a deal similar to OTL’s Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact causing the two leaders to set aside their differences. Then the Reich and China defeat the Axis but the Soviets keep their land in Eastern Europe. Otto uses this to paint the Angelos as incompetent leading to the Angelos to lose the 1945 Examination to the Christian Meritocratic Union/Christian Social Union?

Sorry, but there’s a lot of stuff I don’t agree with or think would work here. I think keeping the civil war would work better than this approach, because otherwise the Reich would easily steam roll the Axis and Soviets. Also the Soviets attacking the Reich directly in 39 doesn’t make strategic sense and seems kinda suicidal. I honestly feel like the civil war is necessary for WW2 to work at all.

A good way to remove the interwar period's dependency on Kaiserreich lore, since the pivotal moment in that decade was the 1926 general strikes, but there are some things I have to keep. I could add in more labor unrest. Some of it could even be tied to the Russian equalists through Trotsky's doctrine of permanent revolution. Since Russia's military is currently busy suppressing Yavdi, it would have to rely on espionage to foment unrest and insurgencies in Scandinavia, the Baltics, and the Reich. This meddling could push many Romans into Angelos' camp as he promises to fight and destroy the equalists, starting with a harsh crackdown on the labor movements, both Russian supported and not. When Otto takes the throne, he begins a shadow war against Angelos, with both making use of radio and television to appeal to the people and rally supporters. They'd also go around the country personally appealing to more citizens, and their supporters would start fighting each other. As international tensions ramp up, Angelos signs secret backroom deals requesting Axis military support and allowing their troops to cross the border into Roman territory, with the expectation that they withdraw when Otto is defeated. In 1939, India sets off the war by invading Turkestan, and as Otto's forces march off to the front lines, Angelos starts his coup. The Russians watch the developing situation with interest, but they can't act because Angelos's troops fully control the border fortifications. The Russians invade in 1941, when Angelos' forces are split between fighting the loyalists and taking over the neutral exile nations in Scandinavia, using troops taken from the border garrisons. This only serves to weaken both the Russian border defenses and the Scandinavian ones as well, giving Russia an opportunity to expand the revolution westward. You know, I could probably retcon Lithuania's takeover and push it back until 1941. The one thing saving Scandinavia is that the Yavdian exiles fight extra fiercely like in the OTL Winter War, so even though they lose a bit of land they still aren't fully conquered. So you still have a civil war in the Reich, but all of the Axis invasions of Roman territory are more like police actions that Angelos requested to boost his manpower. Some of the occupations do become permanent though, like Abyssinia laying claim to all of Roman Africa because Angelos is in no position to contest that. The war ends with Russian nuking of Angeloi-controlled cities, but I'll probably move them to targets further west. Or even Berlin itself. The ensuing Angeloi collapse and surrender would allow me to redraw the Cold War borders to something that is less like OTL, because the loyalists by 1944 had exhausted themselves too much for a war against the Russians.

In Africa due to the invasions by Mali and Ethiopia I could see those events play out the same. There could be an invasion of East Africa by Indian Raj as Gandhi wants to get rid of the royalist for good?

As said above, the African Axis initially occupies Roman Africa at Angelos' request as a way of crushing any loyalists there, but when it becomes clear Angelos can't project power that far south, they make their occupation permanent. Gandhi definitely would have helped Abyssinia invade the royalist exiles in East Africa.

For Africa I believe CaptainAlvious recommended something like the Algerian War of Independence. In were something like the Neurhomaina Emergency we talked about there could be an equalists faction aided by the Soviet’s, a nationalist faction like the National Liberation Front aided by China and an unofficial Pro-Roman faction like the Organisation armée secrète/Secret Armed Organization. I could see two things happening, one they are once again ignored leading to the Roman Governors in Africa to want to break away like they are now or something like Françafrique?

Yeah, I could stand to put more anti-colonial insurgencies in Roman Africa. I did make a big deal of Roman colonizers not being as brutal as OTL European imperialists, but there probably were still brutalities being committed that the Russian equalists could exploit as another front in the Cold War. The Paulluists could also get involved. I'm not sure of any specific parallels or details at the moment, but that would truly make the Cold War here an international shadow war. Just as the Chinese had Southeast Asia, the Reich would have Africa and to an extent India would still have East Africa, as the 2020s war shows.

For Europe the pyrrhic victory in Africa coupled with the loss during the Siam War, the Counterculture Movement and the attacks by the Red Army Faction the Soviets could see the Reich as weak leading to their invasion in the 90’s leading to WW3?

I want to keep World War III as equalist Russia's last ditch effort to remain relevant after years of economic decline, political corruption, and diplomatic setbacks around the world. When Gorbachev (or his renamed equivalent) attempts economic and political liberalization, Valentin and other equalist hardliners see it as the nail in the coffin for world equalism and launch their coup, then start the war to take the Reich and China down with them. It doesn't matter that it makes no sense and they'll eventually lose, their pride and ideological zeal forces them to invade. But yeah, the Reich did have its issues in the 1970s and 80s which would lead to initial Russian successes. There could be more Russian successes in Scandinavia, maybe with an amphibious invasion of Sweden to get around the heavily armed Yavdian exile defenses. And Russian operatives could foment equalist and separatist uprisings in Chinese Siberia and Turkestan. Meanwhile, the Eimerican equalists would begin sending troops across the Atlantic to land in Norway, Hibernia, Caledonia, Gallia, Hispania, and Mauretania. I'd like to add that in so that the war isn't a cakewalk for the Reich and there's no way they wouldn't do that with the UTR's reputation for amphibious invasions and the Eimerican Commune's industrial strength. Not all of them would be full-fledged D-Day level invasions, but rather small landing parties designed to draw troops away from the eastern fronts. Maybe all of the deaths from these invasions would stoke separatist and nationalist sentiments at home that would lead to the UTR's and EC's collapses after the war, while on the Roman side they would lead to the early patriot movement getting supporters in the western provinces due to perceptions that the government could not defend them. They'd start out as militias fighting the equalist invaders, but after the war they'd turn their anger against the government.

 

[CaptainAlvious]

I wonder about Sumatra, Hawaii, Mittagsland and the other Roman overseas pacific territories in the Cold War, since they’re near China’s sphere and I could see China supporting sepreatist movements within them to bring them into China’s fold, especially Sumatra and Mittagsland. Hawaii might be contested by the Eimerican/Russian Equalists and Chinese who both the Romans off the island. Also since the Eimerican Equalists knocked Fusang and Kanata out of WW3 pretty early on, I could see them trying amphibious invasions in the Pacific too.

 

[zenphoenix]

I wonder about Sumatra, Hawaii, Mittagsland and the other Roman overseas pacific territories in the Cold War, since they’re near China’s sphere and I could see China supporting sepreatist movements within them to bring them into China’s fold, especially Sumatra and Mittagsland. Hawaii might be contested by the Eimerican/Russian Equalists and Chinese who both the Romans off the island. Also since the Eimerican Equalists knocked Fusang and Kanata out of WW3 pretty early on, I could see them trying amphibious invasions in the Pacific too.

You know, I should probably fix Fusang’s and Kanata’s roles in WW3. No way will the equalists settle for a white peace that leaves ideological enemies in power. In the former, they’d try to restore the equalist government that Wilson previously overthrew, and in the latter they’d restore the Union of Vinland but as a puppet of the EC this time to resolve that old rivalry. With access to Fusang’s ports, the equalists would then try to take the Panama Canal so the UTR and EC can move fleets from the Atlantic to the Pacific. But they wouldn’t get anywhere because the UPM will hold them off at the canal. They’d then try to send Fusang’s navy, but most of the fleet would mutiny and refuse to take orders from the equalists.

On the other side, I could see China attempting to swipe the Reich’s western Pacific holdings, specifically Sumatra, Guam, and Mittagsland. Hawaii is too far away for the military, but there could be Chinese spies active alongside Eimerican ones. Their efforts would be opposed by Ryukyu, of course, which would send its large fleet around on patrols to deter the Chinese from trying anything. Maybe this lays the groundwork for the Ryūgū Alliance we see in 2039.

 

[GhostRider124]

A good way to remove the interwar period's dependency on Kaiserreich lore, since the pivotal moment in that decade was the 1926 general strikes, but there are some things I have to keep. I could add in more labor unrest. Some of it could even be tied to the Russian equalists through Trotsky's doctrine of permanent revolution. Since Russia's military is currently busy suppressing Yavdi, it would have to rely on espionage to foment unrest and insurgencies in Scandinavia, the Baltics, and the Reich. This meddling could push many Romans into Angelos' camp as he promises to fight and destroy the equalists, starting with a harsh crackdown on the labor movements, both Russian supported and not. When Otto takes the throne, he begins a shadow war against Angelos, with both making use of radio and television to appeal to the people and rally supporters. They'd also go around the country personally appealing to more citizens, and their supporters would start fighting each other. As international tensions ramp up, Angelos signs secret backroom deals requesting Axis military support and allowing their troops to cross the border into Roman territory, with the expectation that they withdraw when Otto is defeated. In 1939, India sets off the war by invading Turkestan, and as Otto's forces march off to the front lines, Angelos starts his coup. The Russians watch the developing situation with interest, but they can't act because Angelos's troops fully control the border fortifications. The Russians invade in 1941, when Angelos' forces are split between fighting the loyalists and taking over the neutral exile nations in Scandinavia, using troops taken from the border garrisons. This only serves to weaken both the Russian border defenses and the Scandinavian ones as well, giving Russia an opportunity to expand the revolution westward. You know, I could probably retcon Lithuania's takeover and push it back until 1941. The one thing saving Scandinavia is that the Yavdian exiles fight extra fiercely like in the OTL Winter War, so even though they lose a bit of land they still aren't fully conquered. So you still have a civil war in the Reich, but all of the Axis invasions of Roman territory are more like police actions that Angelos requested to boost his manpower. Some of the occupations do become permanent though, like Abyssinia laying claim to all of Roman Africa because Angelos is in no position to contest that. The war ends with Russian nuking of Angeloi-controlled cities, but I'll probably move them to targets further west. Or even Berlin itself. The ensuing Angeloi collapse and surrender would allow me to redraw the Cold War borders to something that is less like OTL, because the loyalists by 1944 had exhausted themselves too much for a war against the Russians.

That would definitely explain why there are things like Ethiopian troops in Russia and by diverting these forces to Europe could give China room to invade from the east?

I want to keep World War III as equalist Russia's last ditch effort to remain relevant after years of economic decline, political corruption, and diplomatic setbacks around the world. When Gorbachev (or his renamed equivalent) attempts economic and political liberalization, Valentin and other equalist hardliners see it as the nail in the coffin for world equalism and launch their coup, then start the war to take the Reich and China down with them. It doesn't matter that it makes no sense and they'll eventually lose, their pride and ideological zeal forces them to invade. But yeah, the Reich did have its issues in the 1970s and 80s which would lead to initial Russian successes. There could be more Russian successes in Scandinavia, maybe with an amphibious invasion of Sweden to get around the heavily armed Yavdian exile defenses. And Russian operatives could foment equalist and separatist uprisings in Chinese Siberia and Turkestan. Meanwhile, the Eimerican equalists would begin sending troops across the Atlantic to land in Norway, Hibernia, Caledonia, Gallia, Hispania, and Mauretania. I'd like to add that in so that the war isn't a cakewalk for the Reich and there's no way they wouldn't do that with the UTR's reputation for amphibious invasions and the Eimerican Commune's industrial strength. Not all of them would be full-fledged D-Day level invasions, but rather small landing parties designed to draw troops away from the eastern fronts. Maybe all of the deaths from these invasions would stoke separatist and nationalist sentiments at home that would lead to the UTR's and EC's collapses after the war, while on the Roman side they would lead to the early patriot movement getting supporters in the western provinces due to perceptions that the government could not defend them. They'd start out as militias fighting the equalist invaders, but after the war they'd turn their anger against the government.

I fell like many right-wingers in the Reich especially those that form the Committee latter on would treat this like a second Sunset Invasion.

You know, I should probably fix Fusang’s and Kanata’s roles in WW3. No way will the equalists settle for a white peace that leaves ideological enemies in power. In the former, they’d try to restore the equalist government that Wilson previously overthrew, and in the latter they’d restore the Union of Vinland but as a puppet of the EC this time to resolve that old rivalry. With access to Fusang’s ports, the equalists would then try to take the Panama Canal so the UTR and EC can move fleets from the Atlantic to the Pacific. But they wouldn’t get anywhere because the UPM will hold them off at the canal. They’d then try to send Fusang’s navy, but most of the fleet would mutiny and refuse to take orders from the equalists.

This could go into the MITHC discussion we had before. The Chinese face mounting loss of life due to simultaneous attacks from both Native Americans and Equalist with this causing them leavening like Japan in the show only for Wilson to support the Fusang and Kabata governments to prevent them from being overthrown thus bringing them into the Reich's sphere of influence?

On the other side, I could see China attempting to swipe the Reich’s western Pacific holdings, specifically Sumatra, Guam, and Mittagsland. Hawaii is too far away for the military, but there could be Chinese spies active alongside Eimerican ones. Their efforts would be opposed by Ryukyu, of course, which would send its large fleet around on patrols to deter the Chinese from trying anything. Maybe this lays the groundwork for the Ryūgū Alliance we see in 2039.

I know that most of their forces would be busy fighting the Axis but it would be nice to see China put more effort into trying to take the Reich's Pacific holdings. One outcome of the Reich being distracted in Europe could make the governors of Roman Sumatra, Guam, Mittagsland and Hawaii look more to Ryukyu for defence leading to them being more accepting of the Ryūgū Alliance?

 

[zenphoenix]

That would definitely explain why there are things like Ethiopian troops in Russia and by diverting these forces to Europe could give China room to invade from the east?

I'm sure those Ethiopian troops ended up there because that front was going badly and the Axis realized what was going on, so they diverted troops from occupation duties to fight in Russia, but all that achieved was slowing down the Russians while occupations of Roman Africa and other loyalist regions fell apart due to resistance movements no longer being as suppressed. India would do the same thing, which would weaken its fronts against China and lead to the whole postwar situation there.

I fell like many right-wingers in the Reich especially those that form the Committee latter on would treat this like a second Sunset Invasion.

Yep.

This could go into the MITHC discussion we had before. The Chinese face mounting loss of life due to simultaneous attacks from both Native Americans and Equalist with this causing them leavening like Japan in the show only for Wilson to support the Fusang and Kabata governments to prevent them from being overthrown thus bringing them into the Reich's sphere of influence?

I could see that. The Chinese colonial government in Fusang gradually falls apart throughout the 1980s because of the repeated indigenous, local Chinese, and equalist insurgencies which utterly discredit it. Okay, so you know how I said before that I wanted Fusang to gain independence before WW3 happened as it does right now? What if I don't do that? What if the insurgencies and unrest in Fusang escalates so far that Chinese colonial authorities lose control over most of the country? Equalist factions would be supported by the Russians, Eimericans, and equalist Kanatans, nationalists would be supported by the Paulluists, moderates would be supported by Romans, and there'd be a few democratic moderates who just want independence from the military junta.

The North Eimerican situation further destabilizes when the Union of Vinland collapses and becomes capitalist again. I know I wrote that whole revolution as being bloodless and another "haha funny reference" to how the Union of Britain was created in Kaiserreich (the troops sent to suppress protesters turned on the government and overthrew it), but realistically there'd still be multiple equalist and indigenous insurgencies within Kanata, the latter because some indigenous peoples may have benefited more from the equalist regime than the previous royalist one. So going into the mid-1980s you now have two of the major North Eimerican powers suffering significant civil unrest.

The EC's internal tensions haven't risen to that level yet, but neither is it stable and functioning. At least Kanata can rely on the Reich sending in military and economic aid to prop up the new capitalist government. Seeing the successful Roman intervention, the Chinese government swallows its pride and request Wilson's help as well in Fusang. What follows is Wilson sending in a Roman army to cut a bloody path through every major Fusang rebel group, securing each major Fusang city with massive collateral damage. The rebels generally retreat to the outer provinces, near the EC and CSSA borders, where they continue their insurgencies. With the cities back in Chinese hands, Wilson declares the mission accomplished and leaves.

So now the Chinese have Fusang's cities back, but the countryside is still full of rebels, pro-independence sentiments are on the rise among the coastal population, and the military dictatorship has just discredited itself by reaching out to a perceived enemy. The insurgencies in Fusang and Kanata and the simmering tensions in the EC would be absorbed into WW3 when that breaks out, like how the Second Sino-Japanese War of 1937 became part of World War II in OTL. And when the war breaks out, all hell breaks loose in North Eimerica. The Chinese colonial government loses control of Fusang's cities again, this time to pro-independence democratic forces, while the equalists push towards the coast from the mountains and the borders. The EC attempts to distract its increasingly angry population with an invasion of Kanata, supporting the equalist remnant forces there, as well as sending troops to invade the Roman mainland, but the high body counts from both operations only inflames tensions further. Once the war ends and all of the soldiers return home, the EC, CSSA, and UTR explode into ethnic conflict, Kanata gets stabilized by more Roman aid, and the Chinese government is forced to withdraw from Fusang, which aligns with the Reich to get support via Kanata. Oh and I guess Penglai also gets independence, which puts the junta into a death spiral of protests, insurgencies, and economic crisis.

I know that most of their forces would be busy fighting the Axis but it would be nice to see China put more effort into trying to take the Reich's Pacific holdings. One outcome of the Reich being distracted in Europe could make the governors of Roman Sumatra, Guam, Mittagsland and Hawaii look more to Ryukyu for defence leading to them being more accepting of the Ryūgū Alliance?

Yeah, good idea.

 

[CaptainAlvious]

You know how the US voted to maintain the brutal Communist Khmer Rouge regime Cambodian UN seat in opposition to the Vietnamese invasion, while allegedly also encouraged China to support the Khmer Rouge to counteract Soviet/Vietnamese influence in Southeast Asia? Well what if similar incidents could happen here, with two of the superpowers gaining up on the last. For example, you would have Chinese and Russian agents working to spilit Neurhomania, Hawaii (where they would be foiled by the pro Roman Ryukyu), and Africa off from the Reich through they would still be enemies in other circumstances, while the Reich itself would either help China in the case of Wilson’s intervention in Fusang, or undermine China by making sure a Russian sponsored revolution in Southeast Asia countries like Nusantara and Cambodia succeeds, even if the long term that Equalist regime the Romans helped come to power would become a Roman enemy again. And of course, I see the Romans and Chinese encouraging a schism between the Russian and Eimercian Equalists.

Also with our recent rework of Nusantara starting off as a neutral country before being taken over by Roman, Chinese, and Russian aligned factions that brutally purge the opposition, who’s to say the same thing can’t be true of Twantinsyuyu, with a Chinese backed dictatorship purging Roman and Russian aligned factions, and then vice versa when that dictatorship is replaced with either a Roman/Russian sympathetic regime or a non aligned one like Paulluists. Essentially each ideologically bloc would have their own Operation Condor in Twantinsuyu.

 

[zenphoenix]

You know how the US voted to maintain the brutal Communist Khmer Rouge regime Cambodian UN seat in opposition to the Vietnamese invasion, while allegedly also encouraged China to support the Khmer Rouge? Well what if similar incidents could happen here, with two of the superpowers gaining up on the last. For example, you would have Chinese and Russian agents working to spilit Neurhomania, Hawaii (where they would be foiled by the pro Roman Ryukyu), and Africa off from the Reich through they would still be enemies in other circumstances, while the Reich itself would either help China in the case of Wilson’s intervention in Fusang, or undermine China by making sure a Russian sponsored revolution in Southeast Asia countries like Nusantara and Cambodia succeeds, even if the long term that Equalist regime the Romans helped come to power would become a Roman enemy again. And of course, I see the Romans and Chinese encouraging a schism between the Russian and Eimercian Equalists.

Makes sense that two of the superpowers would try ganging up on the third in any flashpoint region. Russia and China could support various Neurhomanian independence groups for their own aims. They’d also try the same with the Pacific islands, but Russia would have to back out once PARA collapses because that’s the only equalist nation with Pacific ports. China could try doing stuff similar to what Han does in 2039, but mainly propping up its colonial possessions and eliminating rival Roman ones. And of course Ryukyu is the wild card.

We know Southeast Asia is going to be a big geopolitical mess as China wants to keep control while the Reich and Russia destabilize it, but I see Central Asia being another point of contention. I could keep the North/South Persia dynamic going a bit longer, but Turkestan would be the big one as a Chinese satellite state intended to be a barrier to further Russian expansion. Turkestan could be a battleground for the three powers since it lies at the crossroads of all of their blocs. Which is only fitting because Samarkand was historically a major city on the Silk Road. The Romans would seek China’s authorization to conduct covert operations into occupied Yavdi. The Chinese have a unique opportunity to send their agents across the Caspian Sea into the Caucasus region and what is known in OTL as Kalmykia, recruiting local Buddhists and Mongols into their network. The Russians would not only want to destabilize and flip Turkestan red but also use it to slip into western China, since the Turkish border is less fortified than the Russian one.

For Southeast Asia, that could explain why the Khin Thai came to power in Siam and why the Reich didn’t step in to crush them until they had defeated all of the other factions. The Reich probably supported any rebel group opposed to China there, including equalists. They may have done the same in Fusang. The reason they then crush those equalists at China’s request would be because of a change in chancellor to Wilson, since Roman administrations tend to have different foreign policy priorities. And then in the Eimericas they’d work with China to encourage the ideological schism with Russia. Meanwhile, China and Russia do the same with Roman allies in Asia like South Persia and West India, not to mention Southeast Asia, and try to destabilize Roman Africa, Mali, Abyssinia, and Indian Africa. The Eimericans and Russia would team up to target the exile governments in Scandinavia but argue over who is in charge of the alliance.

Also with our recent rework of Nusantara starting off as a neutral country before being taken over by Roman, Chinese, and Russian alinnged factions that brutally purge the opposition, who’s to say the same thing can’t be true of Twantinsyuyu, with a Chinese backed dictatorship purging Roman and Russian aligned factions, and then vice versa when that dictatorship is replaced with either a Roman/Russian sympathetic regime or a non aligned one like Paulluists.

It would explain why they kept flip flopping between dictatorships in the 1970s and 80s. All three superpowers sought to expand or maintain their influence in South Eimerica, with the Russians being especially aggressive because Tawantinsuyu would give them Pacific ports.

 

[GhostRider124]

Wilson declares the mission accomplished and leaves.

Will he be standing on a Aircraft Carrier with 'Mission Accomplished" in big letters when he makes that declaration?

The Chinese colonial government loses control of Fusang's cities again, this time to pro-independence democratic forces

In TTL the Reich could do the same in Fusang in that many of the weapons that they gave the Pro-Democratic forces ended up in the hands of the Paulluists leading to the Junta that is there now in the 2030's. Similar to how in OTL many of the weapons given to the Free Syrian Army ended up in the hands of terrorist groups?

I could keep the North/South Persia dynamic going a bit longer,

Since you are doing that I could also see India being divided longer. However come to think of it they could unify at the same time they did in the current story and be TTL's Austria in were due to the foreign powers agreeing to leave they have to agree not to be in any alliance?

For Southeast Asia, that could explain why the Khin Thai came to power in Siam and why the Reich didn’t step in to crush them until they had defeated all of the other factions.

I thought the Khin Thai was pro-Chinese, but later on the Thai government went from pro-Chinese, then pro-Equalists and then finally pro-Roman? So in this instance wouldn't each change of the government be represented by a different faction with the Khin Thai only being the pro-Chinese phase?

 

[CaptainAlvious]

Makes sense that two of the superpowers would try ganging up on the third in any flashpoint region. Russia and China could support various Neurhomanian independence groups for their own aims. They’d also try the same with the Pacific islands, but Russia would have to back out once PARA collapses because that’s the only equalist nation with Pacific ports. China could try doing stuff similar to what Han does in 2039, but mainly propping up its colonial possessions and eliminating rival Roman ones. And of course Ryukyu is the wild card.

We know Southeast Asia is going to be a big geopolitical mess as China wants to keep control while the Reich and Russia destabilize it, but I see Central Asia being another point of contention. I could keep the North/South Persia dynamic going a bit longer, but Turkestan would be the big one as a Chinese satellite state intended to be a barrier to further Russian expansion. Turkestan could be a battleground for the three powers since it lies at the crossroads of all of their blocs. Which is only fitting because Samarkand was historically a major city on the Silk Road. The Romans would seek China’s authorization to conduct covert operations into occupied Yavdi. The Chinese have a unique opportunity to send their agents across the Caspian Sea into the Caucasus region and what is known in OTL as Kalmykia, recruiting local Buddhists and Mongols into their network. The Russians would not only want to destabilize and flip Turkestan red but also use it to slip into western China, since the Turkish border is less fortified than the Russian one.

For Southeast Asia, that could explain why the Khin Thai came to power in Siam and why the Reich didn’t step in to crush them until they had defeated all of the other factions. The Reich probably supported any rebel group opposed to China there, including equalists. They may have done the same in Fusang. The reason they then crush those equalists at China’s request would be because of a change in chancellor to Wilson, since Roman administrations tend to have different foreign policy priorities. And then in the Eimericas they’d work with China to encourage the ideological schism with Russia. Meanwhile, China and Russia do the same with Roman allies in Asia like South Persia and West India, not to mention Southeast Asia, and try to destabilize Roman Africa, Mali, Abyssinia, and Indian Africa. The Eimericans and Russia would team up to target the exile governments in Scandinavia but argue over who is in charge of the alliance.

Good points all around, especially with Turkestan and maintaining North Persia and East India. Turkestan is neighboring Roman aligned Afghanistan and the Russians after all, so it makes sense to give it a North Persian ally in the Chinese camp. Definitely could see the Soviets support independence groups in Siberia, Mongolia, and Manchuria too.

For a beef moment, I wondered about you having the Mittleimerican Equalists survive longer too, but I thought against it due to how it ties into the collapse of the PARA and Mexico’s transition into Zoltan‘s Baathist like Paulluist dictatorship, and the importance that has to the story. Also with how much Taysha kept kicking Zolton’s ass in every war they fought with him, I sometimes wonder why the Reich let the pro Roman regime in Taysha collapse to a democratic revolution in the Nahua Spring, but I guess there wouldn’t be much of a point to keep it around without the threat of Zoltan to the region. Also the Romans couldn’t prevent the collapse of Mayapan into civil war either.

It would explain why they kept flip flopping between dictatorships in the 1970s and 80s. All three superpowers sought to expand or maintain their influence in South Eimerica, with the Russians being especially aggressive because Tawantinsuyu would give them Pacific ports.

I imagine the Romans would be pretty invested in a pro Roman dictatorship themselves, as it would remove a potential threat to Neurhomania and Roman influence in the Eimericas, and Twantinsuyu’s ports would let them project more power into the Pacific and protect territories like Mittagsland, Hawaii, and Sumatra more effectively without relying on Ryukyu (especially once access to the Panama is taken away by the UPM’s Paulluist regime).

With the new lore of the UTR/EC trying out amphibious invasions, I imagine they would draw on the lessons of the Carib Republic and the Nusantaran Equalist invasions western Europe in addition to their own experinces in WW2, while the UPM and Mayan navies do the same, leading to the Battle of Mobile.

Remembering the CK2 events of chocolate being introduced to Europe, our discussion of gunpowder being introduced to Europe in the 13th century, and the fact the Mexica would bring slaves from the European expeditions back to the Eimericas, I‘ve been wondering about having the Columbian Exchange/Transalantic Slave Trade start off in the 13th century. I was also thinking about the age of exploration/colonization start off earlier than canon as well, like Mali starting to colonize Nsoloria (I recall Mali having a large navy as late as Vicky 2, so maybe they could take on Portugual’s role in TTL and explore the African coast and Nsoloria) and India conquering East Africa in the late CK2 era.

 

[zenphoenix]

Will he be standing on a Aircraft Carrier with 'Mission Accomplished" in big letters when he makes that declaration?

Him and Schröder both.

In TTL the Reich could do the same in Fusang in that many of the weapons that they gave the Pro-Democratic forces ended up in the hands of the Paulluists leading to the Junta that is there now in the 2030's. Similar to how in OTL many of the weapons given to the Free Syrian Army ended up in the hands of terrorist groups?

I could imagine a lot of weapons the Reich sold to various Cold War rebel groups are still in circulation decades later, some repurposed by later dictatorships. Hey, maybe even the current wave of neo-equalists in Southeast Asia is still using stuff left over from the Sian Wars. Or maybe those weapons circulate on the black market and end up in the most random places…like Japan. I’m thinking lots of Iran-Contra type deals being made, especially in Wilson’s administration. So his time would see a surge in rebellions and insurgencies around the world, some of which are on his payroll and others which give him an excuse to…increase the military budget.

Since you are doing that I could also see India being divided longer. However come to think of it they could unify at the same time they did in the current story and be TTL's Austria in were due to the foreign powers agreeing to leave they have to agree not to be in any alliance?

That would mess with India’s role in WW3 and its redemption arc of atoning for the Rasas by restoring the Roman alliance and becoming a key founding member of Schengen.

I thought the Khin Thai was pro-Chinese, but later on the Thai government went from pro-Chinese, then pro-Equalists and then finally pro-Roman? So in this instance wouldn't each change of the government be represented by a different faction with the Khin Thai only being the pro-Chinese phase?

The Seri Thai were the first independence group and initially opposed to both the Reich and China, but they gradually became pro-China and anti-Reich. The Chaw Thai were their more militant wing. The Khin Thai were an entirely unrelated equalist faction that ultimately defeated both of the others and took over Siam.

Good points all around, especially with Turkestan and maintaining North Persia and East India. Turkestan is neighboring Roman aligned Afghanistan and the Russians after all, so it makes sense to give it a North Persian ally in the Chinese camp. Definitely could see the Soviets support independence groups in Siberia, Mongolia, and Manchuria too.

Turkestan would be extremely crucial for China as it’s the only way it can access North Persia and the natural resources it has. North Persia and Turkestan are also the only ways China can directly threaten the Roman heartland, so I could see them massing troops and installing nuclear missiles there like how the OTL US relied on Turkey to apply pressure on Russia, which indirectly led to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Speaking of that, I could turn the equivalent here into something else that isn’t just a funny reverse of OTL. The Romans would place nukes in Cuba, prompting China to put nukes in North Persia and Turkestan, and then the Russians respond by arming all of their nuclear missile facilities in their mainland and Eastern Europe.

For a beef moment, I wondered about you having the Mittleimerican Equalists survive longer too, but I thought against it due to how it ties into the collapse of the PARA and Mexico’s transition into Zoltan‘s Baathist like Paulluist dictatorship, and the importance that has to the story. Also with how much Taysha kept kicking Zolton’s ass in every war they fought with him, I sometimes wonder why the Reich let the pro Roman regime in Taysha collapse to a democratic revolution in the Nahua Spring, but I guess there wouldn’t be much of a point to keep it around without the threat of Zoltan to the region. Also the Romans couldn’t prevent the collapse of Mayapan into civil war either.

Yeah, I think it would be more fitting if PARA’s downfall came from inter-Party factions and the various ethnic groups disagreeing over if deposing the Mitteleimerican equalists was the right thing to do. Because to the rest of the world, it would seem like PARA had betrayed the revolution by deposing another equalist regime and allowing a capitalist one to replace it. Regardless of the reasons, there have to be consequences. And without the Union of Mitteleimerica as a buffer state against the UPM and Tawantinsuyu, PARA now directly borders a capitalist state. The Reich knows this and would send agents to destabilize PARA, exploiting the internal power struggles that have emerged after the war.

As for Hasiinay (since “Táyshá” refers to the people, as in “the Táyshá”) flipping to democratic, I probably will retcon them as having adopted a democratic system after independence but retaining close ties to the Reich. This will be a common occurrence in North Eimerica, as being democratic or meritocratic will not necessarily mean aligning with China or the Reich, respectively. Part of it owes to indigenous forms of government, especially republicanism and consensus democracy, not being direct analogues to Eurasian forms.

I imagine the Romans would be pretty invested in a pro Roman dictatorship themselves, as it would remove a potential threat to Neurhomania and Roman influence in the Eimericas, and Twantinsuyu’s ports would let them project more power into the Pacific and protect territories like Mittagsland, Hawaii, and Sumatra more effectively without relying on Ryukyu (especially once access to the Panama is taken away by the UPM’s Paulluist regime).

Yes indeed. Not to mention the Reich gets access to Tawantinsuyu’s economy and natural resources.

With the new lore of the UTR/EC trying out amphibious invasions, I imagine they would draw on the lessons of the Carib Republic and the Nusantaran Equalist invasions western Europe in addition to their own experinces in WW2, while the UPM and Mayan navies do the same, leading to the Battle of Mobile.

Yeah, especially since after those two incidents the Reich wouldn’t make the same mistake. The Atlantic fleets would be mobilized specifically to protect the western coasts. The Russian navy would be limited to the Baltic and Black Seas and can’t break out into the Atlantic, which means the Eimericans have to rely on their own ships. I could see the majority of their attack fleets being sent on suicide missions to divert the Atlantic fleets away from the invasion convoys. That doesn’t solve the problem of the Roman submarine fleet though. So there’s probably be heavy casualties even before the invasion forces reach Europe. I could see the invasions of Norway and Hibernian being the most successful, while the others either only land a small party of survivors that are instantly annihilated/made to surrender or flat out never make it.

Tying in to my idea to make the space race crazier, what if the Russians invested significantly in space infrastructure in North Eimerica and built up local space programs? The reason I bring this up is that it’s possible that to support this naval invasion, and realizing that any attempt to cross the Atlantic would be suicide, the Eimericans drop more troops in from orbit. Of course, these troops also get instantly annihilated, but it would increase the general Roman public’s paranoia and contribute to the postwar rightward shift.

Mobile by comparison is only on the other side of the Caribbean from Mayapan and the UPM, so those two won’t have the same problems.

Remembering the CK2 events of chocolate being introduced to Europe, our discussion of gunpowder being introduced to Europe in the 13th century, and the fact the Mexica would bring slaves from the European expeditions back to the Eimericas, I‘ve been wondering about having the Columbian Exchange/Transalantic Slave Trade start off in the 13th century. I was also thinking about the age of exploration/colonization start off earlier than canon as well, like Mali starting to colonize Nsoloria (I recall Mali having a large navy as late as Vicky 2, so maybe they could take on Portugual’s role in TTL and explore the African coast and Nsoloria) and India conquering East Africa in the late CK2 era.

The Sunset Exchange, as I’ve started calling it, did start with the invasion of the 13th century. The game events mention syphilis and chocolate coming to Europe, while smallpox and horses appear in the Eimericas. It’s fair to assume the Mexica took European slaves back across the Atlantic during their time in Europe. Maybe some of those slaves would escape and form small societies in the borderlands or in friendly native states, and some of them could even have introduced the natives to Christianity and Romanitas. Now I’m imagining doctrinal differences between the Christianity of the 13th century Roman ex-slaves and Fusang Christianity imported from Japan and the 17th century Reich.

I like the idea of starting the Age of Exploration earlier, but I’m not sure if I want Mali to have a colony in South Eimerica before Kristoff Eimerich even went on his voyage. I’m not against it, but it would be weird because if Mali had a successful voyage, the Reich would hear of it and follow soon after, and then the pacing gets messed up. India I’m perfectly fine with, since the East African coast had long had significantly contact with Arabia and the Islamic world.

 

[CaptainAlvious]

As for Hasiinay (since “Táyshá” refers to the people, as in “the Táyshá”) flipping to democratic, I probably will retcon them as having adopted a democratic system after independence but retaining close ties to the Reich. This will be a common occurrence in North Eimerica, as being democratic or meritocratic will not necessarily mean aligning with China or the Reich, respectively. Part of it owes to indigenous forms of government, especially republicanism and consensus democracy, not being direct analogues to Eurasian forms.

Fair point, but I think my earlier theory about the Reich no longer needing a militarized dictatorship to counteract Zoltan could work as well. Also like you mentioned how different Roman administration have their own foregin policy concerns, perhaps Merkel or the Roman public are unwilling to tolerate the regime’s human rights violations like Schroder and Kohl administrations were, and so pulled back Roman support of the government, allowing the Nahua Spring to begin there. I’m not opposed to the Cherokee government being retconned into something less repressive tho.

The Sunset Exchange, as I’ve started calling it, did start with the invasion of the 13th century. The game events mention syphilis and chocolate coming to Europe, while smallpox and horses appear in the Eimericas. It’s fair to assume the Mexica took European slaves back across the Atlantic during their time in Europe. Maybe some of those slaves would escape and form small societies in the borderlands or in friendly native states, and some of them could even have introduced the natives to Christianity and Romanitas. Now I’m imagining doctrinal differences between the Christianity of the 13th century Roman ex-slaves and Fusang Christianity imported from Japan and the 17th century Reich.

Imagine those 13th century Christian slaves being surprised by the prescense of Muslims, Sephardi Jews, and Norse influence in Mexico at this time. Actually, the Mexica embracing more Abrahamic elements ever since the Andulsians arrived in Mexico and Mayapan 12th century would explain why they abolished human sacrifice at the end of CK2.

Sadly tho, I feel like those Christians, Muslims, and Jews in Mexico and Mayapan would have a rough time with the authoritarian regimes of the 20th century and the unrest of the 21st century, especially the Paulluist ones like Zoltan’s Nahua-Mexicayotl centric regime at the expense of other ethnoreligious groups in Mexico.

In addition to all of the militant anti colonial movements supported by Russia and China in both Roman Africa and nearby African states like Mali and Abyssinia getting destabilized (the Senegal uprisings and the Abyssinian Equalist regime come to mind), I imagine there being a lot of peaceful civil rights movements that would still be repressed like the Lynx Noir in France were, leading to Africa still being marginalized and underrepresneted in the pre 2030 Reich like France, the former Occupied Territories, and Muslims of the former Islamic world were. Retconing Roman colonization of Africa to be less benign also makes sense, since there still moments of violent colonization and repression by the Romans and Indians, like the conquest of Mutapa, the treatment of Muslims, and the Inquisition purging some African peoples for heresy.

 

[GhostRider124]

Turkestan would be extremely crucial for China as it’s the only way it can access North Persia and the natural resources it has. North Persia and Turkestan are also the only ways China can directly threaten the Roman heartland, so I could see them massing troops and installing nuclear missiles there like how the OTL US relied on Turkey to apply pressure on Russia, which indirectly led to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Speaking of that, I could turn the equivalent here into something else that isn’t just a funny reverse of OTL. The Romans would place nukes in Cuba, prompting China to put nukes in North Persia and Turkestan, and then the Russians respond by arming all of their nuclear missile facilities in their mainland and Eastern Europe.

Tying in to my idea to make the space race crazier, what if the Russians invested significantly in space infrastructure in North Eimerica and built up local space programs? The reason I bring this up is that it’s possible that to support this naval invasion, and realizing that any attempt to cross the Atlantic would be suicide, the Eimericans drop more troops in from orbit. Of course, these troops also get instantly annihilated, but it would increase the general Roman public’s paranoia and contribute to the postwar rightward shift.

Speaking of the area around I think what would have been OTL's Baikonur Cosmodrome is part of the CAC. This got me wondering if it would still exist in TTL and who would control it?

Also can the boarder of Central Asia be changed in both the DE and during the restructuring of the world after the current arc since the boarder gore is not the best, especially that long panhandle that Turkistan has going into western China?

As for Hasiinay (since “Táyshá” refers to the people, as in “the Táyshá”) flipping to democratic, I probably will retcon them as having adopted a democratic system after independence but retaining close ties to the Reich. This will be a common occurrence in North Eimerica, as being democratic or meritocratic will not necessarily mean aligning with China or the Reich, respectively. Part of it owes to indigenous forms of government, especially republicanism and consensus democracy, not being direct analogues to Eurasian forms.

I know that it was the Fox and not the Iroquois who first united the other tribes but I was wondering if a version of Eimerican democracy can be based off of the Iroquois and their form of early federalism which some say was the basis for modern American Federalism?

The Sunset Exchange, as I’ve started calling it, did start with the invasion of the 13th century. The game events mention syphilis and chocolate coming to Europe, while smallpox and horses appear in the Eimericas. It’s fair to assume the Mexica took European slaves back across the Atlantic during their time in Europe. Maybe some of those slaves would escape and form small societies in the borderlands or in friendly native states, and some of them could even have introduced the natives to Christianity and Romanitas. Now I’m imagining doctrinal differences between the Christianity of the 13th century Roman ex-slaves and Fusang Christianity imported from Japan and the 17th century Reich.

I like the idea of starting the Age of Exploration earlier, but I’m not sure if I want Mali to have a colony in South Eimerica before Kristoff Eimerich even went on his voyage. I’m not against it, but it would be weird because if Mali had a successful voyage, the Reich would hear of it and follow soon after, and then the pacing gets messed up. India I’m perfectly fine with, since the East African coast had long had significantly contact with Arabia and the Islamic world.

Since we are now back on the CK2 part of the story it would be interesting if you went more in depth about how the Reich went from a Feudal Empire to being a more "modern" nation state. One way that I thought you could do this is to take more inspiration from Austria's history. That being how in OTL it was the Austrian Empire from 1804–1867 until the Ausgleich that gave the Hungarians co-status becoming Austria-Hungary?

A similar thing could happen here. The HRE existing from 862 to 1105 in were the Greeks becoming co-rulers could be like the Ausgleich. Then after WW2 in keeping in line with Otto forming the post-war Länder being the Second Ausgleich similar to how in OTL there were some reformers who wanted the Dual Monarchy to become a tri-empire of Germans, Hungarians and Slavs?

I would also love to see more interaction between the "commoners" and the nobility since as we found out through Kaiser Wilhelm IV were even in the modern day there is technically no laws against royalty being more involved in politics.

 

[zenphoenix]

Fair point, but I think my earlier theory about the Reich no longer needing a militarized dictatorship to counteract Zoltan could work as well. Also like you mentioned how different Roman administration have their own foregin policy concerns, perhaps Merkel or the Roman public are unwilling to tolerate the regime’s human rights violations like Schroder and Kohl administrations were, and so pulled back Roman support of the government, allowing the Nahua Spring to begin there. I’m not opposed to the Cherokee government being retconned into something less repressive tho.

Sure. After the Cold War ends, the Reich can afford to be less pragmatic and more idealistic, at least on the surface. So when the Nahua Spring happens, Merkel (or her renamed replacement) withdraws aid from the dictatorship and applies pressure on it, leading to the success of liberalization.

Not sure what to do with Tsalgehi Ayeli right now. I might retcon the whole theocracy thing out since that was purely a gameplay thing and historical Cherokee political systems are pretty interesting. Maybe they could be a major political rival of the Haudenosaunee.

Imagine those 13th century Christian slaves being suppressed by the prescense of Muslims, Sephardim, and Norse influence in Mexico at this time. Actually, the Mexica embracing more Abrahamic elements ever since the Andulsians arrived in Mexico and Mayapan 12th century would explain why they abolished human sacrifice at the end of CK2.

Yeah, they’d be really confused as to why Muslims and Jews are greeting them there, but the Norse would have long been assimilated due to their smaller numbers. Though some stories about them might have survived. Speaking of those stories, when the ex-slaves’ descendants, Eimerican Jews and Muslims, and people who know the Norse stories meet the Romans, they could lead to weird rumors and myths about the New World. Stuff like El Dorado, Norumbega, Mormon mythology, and Antillia. The Cities of Gold would be the first big ones because the Reich would be vaguely aware of the Mexica and Tawantinsuyuan homelands and assume that the former must be extremely wealthy to cross the Atlantic in such large numbers. That and Eimerich met the Muisca early in his voyages, who were the originators of the myth of El Dorado in OTL. Norumbega wouldn’t be called that, but stories of the Norse and their journey from Vinland to Mexico would be exaggerated by the indigenous peoples over the centuries. Some Christians, Jews, and Muslims might take cues from the Book of Mormon and label the indigenous peoples as lost tribes of Israel or whatever. Abrahamic adherents in the New World might be hailed as a miracle. Interest in other potential pre-Sunset Invasion interactions between Eurasia and North Eimerica would increase. Because if there are Jews, Muslims, Christians, and Buddhists in North Eimerica, then what about Visigothic Spaniards, Basques, Saint Brendan, Carthaginians, and Phoenicians?

Getting back on topic, Abrahamic and Buddhist influence would definitely lead to religious reforms within Mexicayaotl and weaken the Cult of Huitzilopochtli. I mentioned before how Buddhism was adopted by many Mexica subjects who hated the human sacrifices and other brutalities of the state religion, but the Abrahamic faiths would also find followers for the same reason. Judaism frowns upon proselytization but encourages non-believers to follow the Seven Laws of Noah and achieve salvation. That way, so many Mexica subjects would find that lack of being imposed on people as appealing. Christianity obviously has messages of love, peace, and redemption, but the story of Christ’s sacrifice to redeem humanity and usher in a new covenant would perfectly fit into Mexica culture and mythology. Not only because of all of the sacrifices that can be portrayed as part of the old covenant that was ended with one final sacrifice but also because of Mexica mythology’s story of Nanahuatzin, which Izinchi referenced in the main story. Islam would straight up condemn the human sacrifice and general brutality of the regime.

Looking back at my screenshots, the event text for smallpox in the Mexica Empire mentions how the emperor ordered all slaves and prisoners captured from Europe were to be executed to stop the spread of the disease. Maybe some of them escaped the purges and see the diseases as divine retribution. Some natives might draw the same conclusions and convert as a result.

The rate of native conversions must have happened extremely quickly, as the Mexicayaotl religious reformation and codification happened in 1279 under Ocuil’s son Zipactonal.

Sadly tho, I feel like those Christians, Muslims, and Jews in Mexico and Mayapan would have a rough time with the authoritarian regimes of the 20th century and the unrest of the 21st century, especially the Paulluist ones like Zoltan’s Nahua-Mexicayotl centric regime at the expense of other ethnoreligious groups in Mexico.

Both the equalists and pan-Eimericans would also target Abrahamic adherents, the former because of their state atheism and the latter because they see them as foreign influences to be eradicated.

Building on the above finding of the European slaves being purged because of smallpox, there could be a stigma among many indigenous communities that Abrahamic adherents spread smallpox or other diseases.

In addition to all of the militant anti colonial movements supported by Russia and China in both Roman Africa and nearby African states like Mali and Abyssinia getting destabilized (the Senegal uprisings and the Abyssinian Equalist regime come to mind), I imagine there being a lot of peaceful civil rights movements that would still be repressed like the Lynx Noir in France were, leading to Africa still being marginalized and underrepresneted in the pre 2030 Reich like France, the former Occupied Territories, and Muslims of the former Islamic world were. Retconing Roman colonization of Africa to be less benign also makes sense, since there still moments of violent colonization and repression by the Romans and Indians, like the conquest of Mutapa, the treatment of Muslims, and the Inquisition purging some African peoples for heresy.

Not to mention the media would focus on the major movements in Europe and not care much about the ones in Africa, so the government can be more aggressive there. Also because it fears the African groups are being supported by China or Russia.

Speaking of the area around I think what would have been OTL's Baikonur Cosmodrome is part of the CAC. This got me wondering if it would still exist in TTL and who would control it?

It does exist in the current canon and as of 2037 is under the control of CAC/Turkestan, but I want to retcon it out eventually. The OTL USSR created Baikonur because it was in a sparsely populated area and in the southernmost part of the country, closest to the equator. China, which actually has easy access to the equator and sparsely populated areas around it, has no reason to build the Baikonur Cosmodrome. The primary Chinese launch facilities in the retcon will probably be in Hainan (where one of OTL modern China’s spaceports is located), southern Vietnam, northern Penglai, and the Maldives. I could also add locations in eastern Indonesia or Papua, since those regions remained under direct Chinese control until the 1970s. It could also explain why East Timor is still under Penglai administration, as China built a spaceport there.

If Persia, Turkestan, and Afghanistan set up a joint space program, their spaceport would be on the Persian coast.

Russia’s space program would be in a weird position because it doesn’t have that much land as far south as Baikonur, only a narrow strip of land between the Caspian and Aral Seas which would be directly threatened by Chinese Turkestan. So it would have to rely on the Eimericans for good launch sites. The best candidates would have been in PARA and the Union of Mitteleimerica, but their collapse means Russia has to look elsewhere. The next best locations would be in the UTR, like the occupied Mayan islands and its southern half on the mainland. Would be ironic if Russia operated a spaceport out of where Cape Canaveral would be in OTL. Any Russian spaceports would also become political bargaining chips for the Eimerican equalists, who’d want concessions in exchange for letting Russia use the land.

Also can the boarder of Central Asia be changed in both the DE and during the restructuring of the world after the current arc since the boarder gore is not the best, especially that long panhandle that Turkistan has going into western China?

I’d like to keep the messy border there, aside from a few minor adjustments to go along natural features. The panhandle is kind of charming, in my opinion. Not all borders are going to look nice, as real life can attest to. If anything, I think Turkestan’s borders are too clean. Its northern border is almost entirely horizontal. Maybe I’ll give it some more territory in the north and southeast. I guess that’ll incidentally fix the panhandle, sure. I was going to figure out a lore explanation by saying that the Turks in the panhandle are still culturally similar to Turks further west, while those to the north and south were Sinicized, but I could reuse this to explain why China doesn’t hand over the entire Tarim Basin to Turkestan, since that was where the Ghaznavids were exiled to for centuries. Tibet I can explain as having a large Tibetan population that doesn’t see itself as part of Turkestan despite being Slavicized. So China is inclined to keep Tibet under direct control while establishing a Turkish buffer state.

I know that it was the Fox and not the Iroquois who first united the other tribes but I was wondering if a version of Eimerican democracy can be based off of the Iroquois and their form of early federalism which some say was the basis for modern American Federalism?

I did mention how Iroquois consensus democracy laid the groundwork for Eimerican republicanism in the modern era, so I could see them actually pioneering the idea in the 13th century. I talked about how indigenous groups banded together in larger confederations to defend themselves against the Mexica. Looking at other screenshots from CK2, the events state that the Iroquois were the last holdouts against the Mexica. I don’t think it elaborates any further after that, so I conclude that the Haudenosaunee ultimately turn back the Mexica from the US Northeast region, and their success inspires other natives to adopt similar political structures, namely the confederation system and consensus democracy. Though given the various names listed in that event (Shoshone Dominions, Sioux Commonwealth, Free Iroquois City-States—all of these will of course be given appropriate non-French indigenous names in my story), they might already have distinct political systems, but they’d still incorporate Haudenosaunee reforms since they were the most successful of the anti-Mexica states.

But yeah, modern post-Cold War Eimerican democracy and republicanism are already heavily inspired by the Haudenosaunee model.

Since we are now back on the CK2 part of the story it would be interesting if you went more in depth about how the Reich went from a Feudal Empire to being a more "modern" nation state. One way that I thought you could do this is to take more inspiration from Austria's history. That being how in OTL it was the Austrian Empire from 1804–1867 until the Ausgleich that gave the Hungarians co-status becoming Austria-Hungary?

I wouldn’t say Austria-Hungary is a good example of a nation-state. It was still a multi-ethnic empire that was constantly in danger of being torn apart by the restless nationalities it ruled over. My primary inspiration comes from the Roman Empire’s idea of Romanness and Romanitas. For a while, I considered it a sort of proto-national identity, but that isn’t completely correct. There was a post on r/badhistory lately (should still be on the front page, if not search “Byzantines were Roman”) that elaborated more on the nuances of being a Roman in the Byzantine era. To summarize, one was a Roman if they were Orthodox Christian, spoke Greek, and culturally behaved like the Romans of the imperial core. Actual genetic ethnicity didn’t matter. Therefore, Jews and Bulgarian speakers couldn’t be Romans. The empire also aimed to assimilate non-Roman groups as potential threats, with foreigners like western Europeans at times looked on with suspicion for not being Roman. Imperial wars of expansion also had a pattern by only targeting regions considered to have a perceived Roman population. So there was no reason to conquer, say, Russia or even Egypt by the 11th century, since their identities had diverged so much from the Roman one of were never considered Roman to begin with, but there were always calls to reconquer Italy and the Holy Land. So the eastern empire in the 11th century wasn’t quite a proto-nation, but it did have some parallels. Also, apparently “Basileia ton Rhomaion” is a bit ahistorical and I should just be calling the eastern half Rhomania from the very beginning. A minor thing but sure.

Anyways, I say this because Friedrich the Great is going to take one look at all this, throw out half of it, and then actually start the Reich down the path to nationhood. He’d also look at the feudalism in the Holy Roman Empire (in case I haven’t said it before, the “Holy” was added much later on, as “Holy Empire” in 1157 and “Holy Roman Empire” in 1254) and try to throw that out as well. Though that doesn’t happen immediately, more like a gradual process that accelerated with the 12th Century Renaissance and the Black Death economically empowering commoners. The Roman identity would be expanded so that it isn’t as restrictive as under the Byzantines, so that non-Christians can still be Romans (but not Catholics or non-Orthodox Christians), and some degree of cultural distinction is tolerated. Foreigners, even those of other religions, were to be dealt with as potential allies and partners, not threats—the OTL Byzantine Empire sent out missionaries to convert pagans because of the threats they posed, but the Reich does not because it can reduce those threats via trade and diplomacy. Assimilation was only pursued for certain groups considered troublesome (like the French and Muslims). Still, the Reich only wanted to reconsider lands it considered Roman. It was just that what it considered Roman was vastly expanded to include everything from the classical era and then a little more. As the general public becomes more educated and economically successful, the nobility lose their power. Feudalism falls away the more that commoners gain economic freedom and social mobility, so they aren’t stuck working in a noble’s estate. I suppose I could go over the decline of feudalism in more detail. I did go over the socioeconomic consequences of the Black Death in CK2 among other things. I mentioned here how Friedrich the Great saw the Byzantine nobility system as a way of breaking the power of the HRE nobles, allowing him to work on bringing the Byzantine nobles to heel with Alexios’ help probably. Still, into the modern day the Roman identity wouldn’t be based on ethnicity. Ethnic distinctions were irrelevant to the eastern empire, so they remain irrelevant to the Reich. To be a Roman, just adopt Roman cultural customs, have a good understanding of Roman (expanded to include German as well as Greek), recognize the Kaiser and the Augustinian Code, and don’t be a Christian heretic. Ethnic distinctions arguably still don’t matter to the Reich in the 21st century. See how ethnicities for Roman characters in the story side are generally listed as “European” instead of “white” or “French” or “German,” though perhaps I should just write “Roman” instead. All of the distinctions of being French or German or Greek come down to language and culture, but all are still considered Roman. There isn’t a specific moment when the Reich stopped being in the limbo between empire and sort-of-but-not-really proto-nation and started outright being a nation, as the Roman identity and how people perceive it is always evolving. But there would be a clear moment when feudalism ended.

A similar thing could happen here. The HRE existing from 862 to 1105 in were the Greeks becoming co-rulers could be like the Ausgleich. Then after WW2 in keeping in line with Otto forming the post-war Länder being the Second Ausgleich similar to how in OTL there were some reformers who wanted the Dual Monarchy to become a tri-empire of Germans, Hungarians and Slavs?

Yeah…I don’t think a Dual Monarchy is happening. If anything, that would tear the whole Reich apar. I see parallels to how the classical empire was partitioned into west and east. From the framework I laid out above, it seems I can try to justify the merging of the HRE and Byzantine empires by a massive reinterpretation of the idea of Romanness. That and the copious use of an early printing press combined with an early introduction of humanism, Friedrich’s charisma and military genius, and political-religious hegemony achieved by the subjugation of the Papacy.

I would also love to see more interaction between the "commoners" and the nobility since as we found out through Kaiser Wilhelm IV were even in the modern day there is technically no laws against royalty being more involved in politics.

Yeah, I do have some ideas for commoners in government roles in the CK2 era, because Friedrich wouldn’t care for social class, only merit.

 

[CaptainAlvious]

I kinda feel like asking how you might change up TTL Manhattan project in DE, because the Rasas and Angeloi developing nukes first before the Soviets seize the nukes and use them on the Angeloi and Angels, leaving the Romans and Chinese to catch up, is pretty interesting. Also the idea of Russia’s nuclear arsenal being spilt up between the Reich and China is concerning, given how this current war played out.

Since you’re reworking the Cuban Missle Crisis, I wonder how that would be resolved here, as the Soviets withdrawing nukes from Eastern Europe is pretty unlikely. Maybe some flashpoint zone, like the two Indias, has nukes withdrawn from there, but I’m not sure about that.

Also with how short lived the Union of Mittleimerica was, I wonder about moving the North Korea parallels to somewhere else. I’m thinking North Persia, since we’re having it last longer here, meaning that the war between the two Persias would probably end up as a stalemate like the Korean War. Perhaps like OTL North Korea, North Persia would be ecmonomiclly ahead of South Persia due to Chinese backing until the South catches up and the North stagnates and collaspes as the Chinese Junta begins to decline. To go further with the Korean parallels we are now applying to Persia, as Korea would now be under Chinese rule in DE, I could see Reza Khan becoming a dictator again after the 1953 coup, purging Equalists and Republicans at the behest of the Reich. Making Khan’s post WW2 regime a mix between South Korean dictators and the Pahlavi dynasty.

 

[zenphoenix]

I kinda feel like asking how you might change up TTL Manhattan project in DE, because the Rasas and Angeloi developing nukes first before the Soviets seize the nukes and use them on the Angeloi and Angels, leaving the Romans and Chinese to catch up, is pretty interesting. Also the idea of Russia’s nuclear arsenal being spilt up between the Reich and China is concerning, given how this current war played out.

Not sure about specifics. At the moment, I think I’ll keep the basic outline from current canon, just with more detail and less Sherlockisms. Also Oppenheimer as not an Angeloi.

Since you’re reworking the Cuban Missle Crisis, I wonder how that would be resolved here, as the Soviets withdrawing nukes from Eastern Europe is pretty unlikely. Maybe some flashpoint zone, like the two Indias, has nukes withdrawn from there, but I’m not sure about that.

I don’t see how it will end without the Reich removing its nukes in Cuba, but perhaps the other two powers would also agree to remove its other nukes in flashpoints, like North Persia and Eastern Europe.

Also with how short lived the Union of Mittleimerica was, I wonder about moving the North Korea parallels to somewhere else. I’m thinking North Persia, since we’re having it last longer here, meaning that the war between the two Persias would probably end up as a stalemate like the Korean War. Perhaps like OTL North Korea, North Persia would be ecmonomiclly ahead of South Persia due to Chinese backing until the South catches up and the North stagnates and collaspes as the Chinese Junta begins to decline. To go further with the Korean parallels we are now applying to Persia, as Korea would now be under Chinese rule in DE, I could see Reza Khan becoming a dictator again after the 1953 coup, purging Equalists and Republicans at the behest of the Reich. Making Khan’s post WW2 regime a mix between South Korean dictators and the Pahlavi dynasty.

Yeah, I could see that working.

 

[GhostRider124]

Also with how short lived the Union of Mittleimerica was, I wonder about moving the North Korea parallels to somewhere else. I’m thinking North Persia, since we’re having it last longer here, meaning that the war between the two Persias would probably end up as a stalemate like the Korean War. Perhaps like OTL North Korea, North Persia would be ecmonomiclly ahead of South Persia due to Chinese backing until the South catches up and the North stagnates and collaspes as the Chinese Junta begins to decline. To go further with the Korean parallels we are now applying to Persia, as Korea would now be under Chinese rule in DE, I could see Reza Khan becoming a dictator again after the 1953 coup, purging Equalists and Republicans at the behest of the Reich. Making Khan’s post WW2 regime a mix between South Korean dictators and the Pahlavi dynasty.

Yeah, I could see that working.

I also like the idea but in order to do that wouldn't you need to completely rework Koreas current lore since at the moment it is mainly OTL South Koreas history?

Tying in to my idea to make the space race crazier, what if the Russians invested significantly in space infrastructure in North Eimerica and built up local space programs? The reason I bring this up is that it’s possible that to support this naval invasion, and realizing that any attempt to cross the Atlantic would be suicide, the Eimericans drop more troops in from orbit. Of course, these troops also get instantly annihilated, but it would increase the general Roman public’s paranoia and contribute to the postwar rightward shift.

It would be funny if one group of these groups of soldiers missed their mark and landed in some random Roman town and be like TTL's version of Red Dawn (the 1984 version)?

Also. I was wondering if Part 4 of Repositioning will be coming out today since the last one came out on Jul 16? If you still need time that's fine I was just wondering.

 

[zenphoenix]

I also like the idea but in order to do that wouldn't you need to completely rework Koreas current lore since at the moment it is mainly OTL South Koreas history?

Korea would have been integrated as a Chinese province for centuries at this point, so I imagine there was some heavy Sinicization happening, and the Korean identity would have to have been reclaimed in the 20th century as part of the independence movement. I don't know how it would go, but it would probably start out like that.

It would be funny if one group of these groups of soldiers missed their mark and landed in some random Roman town and be like TTL's version of Red Dawn (the 1984 version)?

That's what I was thinking, they wouldn't necessarily land in coastal areas but randomly across Europe.

Also. I was wondering if Part 4 of Repositioning will be coming out today since the last one came out on Jul 16? If you still need time that's fine I was just wondering.

Yeah, I might need a little more time.

 

[zenphoenix]

Repositioning, Part 4​

Downtown Isfahan

Mozaffar had started to enjoy the celebratory banquet, as much as he hated the reason why it was a thing, when it abruptly ended and the cabinet was called into an emergency briefing. He wasn’t even finished with his dinner when he was whisked into a car and driven to Ali Qapu, where they convened in the war room. He didn’t understand why they were here now, as there was no military operation currently in progress. In fact, the entire Mesopotamian front had disintegrated due to entire armies outright deserting and leaving holes in the front lines. Had Jerusalem not been suffering its own internal troubles, it could have easily pushed the Artesh back to the border, and then some. I still don’t get why they decided to nuke themselves. Maybe that’s the point.

He supposed it couldn’t hurt to ask. “Gentlemen, please explain why we’re still meeting in the war room.”

“Mozaffar, there is a pressing matter of national security which requires us to deploy the Artesh.” Interim Chancellor Parviz Zakaria put his elbows on the table and his interlocked hands up to his chin, his composure stoic and deadpan like a statue of the shahs of old. Abbas Jaberi had to announce his resignation and retirement several hours ago, ahead of his planned announcement. Mozaffar’s plan was to help Uncle Abbas announce his retirement, combined with an endorsement of his political campaign, on the 27th, but Parviz gave them little time to react by getting the votes needed to oust Jaberi much faster than Mozaffar had expected. He would only be chancellor until July 1, when Mozaffar would no doubt win the examinations, but it seemed he wanted to flaunt his power while he still had it. “The situation in Isfahan is deteriorating. Riots have sprung up in multiple districts.”

“Riots?”

“Yes, if you’ll look at this map here…” The Minister of Intelligence laid out a map of the city on the table, with certain neighborhoods having been circled. “The Zayandeh River Patrol has gone on strike, claiming human trafficking will surge in the coming weeks.” He next pointed to Isfahan Tech. “Meanwhile the Isfahan Teachers’ Association, along with various university student organizations, simultaneously went on strike. Students have barricaded the entrances to the campus and dorms.” After that, he pointed at downtown. “Numerous malls and popular restaurants have suddenly announced they would be closing indefinitely.”

“Have you contacted the Chamber of Commerce and the Restaurant Owners Association?” Mozaffar asked.

“They refused to take my calls, only saying this was in solidarity with the strikes elsewhere.”

“Damn strikers,” Parviz said, “Let’s see how well they take it when we fire the lot of them and replace them with patriots who actually want to work.”

“That’s only going to make the situation worse,” Mozaffar said, “Especially with the river patrol. Where are we going to find replacements for them in a timely manner?”

“There will always be people ready to take their place,” Parviz said, “Such is the way of the free market.”

But how long will we need to properly train them?

“Spontaneous rioting has also broken out in downtown and other major districts,” the Minister of Intelligence continued, “They haven’t gotten close to Ali Qapu or any government buildings, but some businesses have been torched.”

“Roman ones?” Parviz didn’t miss a beat.

“…There is no indication any specific minorities or their businesses were targeted.”

Besides, most of the Roman businesses have long since closed up.

“We need a response,” Parviz said, “Mozaffar?”

“Yes?” Mozaffar said.

“As Regent, you have to put out a statement denouncing the rioting. Since we’re a nation of rules and laws, we can’t condone violence. Those entitled brats in the street are merely doing what the Romans did and trying to subvert our nation from within.”

“That’s going too far, Parviz.”

“No, it’s the bare minimum response. We need to project strength at this moment. Showing weakness would only give in to the defeatism and cynicism that Jerusalem encourages.”

“Are you saying that Jerusalem is behind this?” the Minister of Intelligence asked. “Because from what I found, Jerusalem is no longer capable of that.”

“Doesn’t matter, but if we can spin it that way, then that will give sensible people an enemy to rally around,” Parviz said, “We can then paint anybody who continues complaining as a Jerusalemite sympathizer. Two birds with one stone. Mozaffar, get that statement out by tomorrow.”

An aide rushed into the room and whispered in the Minister of Intelligence’s ear. The minister’s eyes widened. “What? Are you sure? …Okay.”

He turned to the other men. “Julian Anniona has made his move.”

“That brat?” Parviz said. “I thought he left with the rest of them.”

“Officially, yes, but we have reason to believe he is still in the city. He just put out a video. Here.”

A video of Julian appeared on the TV screen. He was sitting in what appeared to be a hotel room, with a chessboard set up on the table in front of him.

“Citizens of Persia!” The Roman spoke in fluent Persian, his rhetoric and intonation flowing like poetry. “You may know who I am, but it matters not. I am merely a vessel through which the anger of the people makes itself heard. I am not alone, for I stand alongside many thousands, perhaps even millions, who are dissatisfied with the current state of affairs. Fear us, or rally behind us! The Persian government, an ostensibly meritocratic one that claims to respect the rule of law, has demonstrated it only wants to fan the flames of hatred. The so-called last defenders of meritocracy do this at a time when such hatred will only weaken us and invite the forces of true evil to snuff out the last light in this world. We stand with all who have no way of defending themselves, without considering their nationality or social class, regardless of whether they be Romans or Persians. Jerusalem has slaughtered countless billions since last November, but the Artesh slaughtered over eighty thousand Crusaders fleeing Isfahan on April 2 in cold blood, while they were all retreating and in no condition to fight. Furthermore, the Persian government has deigned the innocent Roman refugees residing in this land of freedom be considered guilty of the same crimes by national association. This is a cruel and meaningless act, and there shall be a reckoning.”

“Is that a threat?” Parviz said.

Mozaffar remained quiet. Julian Anniona…he’s really doing it, huh?

“I claim responsibility for helping General Saikhangiin Börte and her troops survive the Battle of Mosul,” Julian continued, “I could not condone the cold sacrifice of thousands of Yavdian troops just to make the lives of Persian ones much easier. And so I took steps to rectify the situation and prevent that scenario from happening. I will not repudiate battle on a fair and level field, but nor will I tolerate one-sided massacres of the weak by the strong. The only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed as well! Wherever oppressors abuse their power by making the powerless suffer, my allies and I shall appear to put them in place, no matter how mighty they may seem. No amount of guns or money can stop us.”

He thrust a fist into the air. “Those of you with power, fear us! Those of you without it, rally behind us! We shall make the people’s true voices heard and pass judgment on the wicked!”

The video ended.

“We should suppress this video,” Parviz said to the Minister of Intelligence.

“It’s no longer possible. Copies were simultaneously delivered to each major news organization and to online social media and video hosting sites. It’s already out there.”

“Damnit!” Parviz said. “Find that Anniona brat and arrest him for insurrection!”

Mozaffar said nothing.

Perhaps he can free us all…

---

The Isfahan Police Department analyzed the footage and soon figured out the hotel where Julian was broadcasting from. A cordon was set up five minutes later. Several squads of heavily armed counterterrorism units arrived after another ten minutes, establishing an impenetrable barrier which nobody could hope to break through. Once all exits were covered, the police moved in.

“Isfahan Police Department! Open up!”

“Hands behind your heads! Up against the wall!”

“Where is Julian Anniona?!”

“On the floor!”

Staff and guests screamed and cowered on the floor as the cops waved around fully automatic assault rifles and large riot shields, demanding to know where Julian was. Everybody was ordered to stay on the floor and await further instructions. Then the squads turned to the rooms, searching through every one on every floor. Parviz had assured Mozaffar that the courts had provided the necessary warrants already, but Mozaffar doubted it. It had only been less than half an hour since the broadcast happened.

“How did we move so fast?” Mozaffar asked.

“You’d be surprised at how fast the government can act when it’s not being held back by bureaucratic red tape,” Parviz said.

“Have you been reading Josiah Burkard’s books?”

“He makes some good points.”

Didn’t that guy get executed?

Body cameras on each cop broadcast footage of the raid back to Ali Qapu in real time. Maids screamed as the police pushed them against the walls, kicked down the doors of rooms, and turned over everything not nailed down without a care in the world for the guests’ belongings. As they ascended the floors, they reported in.

“Floor 1 clear, no sign of Julian Anniona.”

“Floor 2 clear. No sign of the target.”

“Floor 3 clear. No sign.”

This continued all the way until the top floor, which was likewise devoid of any boy named Julian Annniona. When the first team stormed onto the rooftop and found it also empty, Parviz slammed his fist against the table. “DAMNIT! Where the hell is that boy?!”

“You fell for the oldest trick in the book,” Mozaffar said, “That message was obviously prerecorded. Or perhaps the background was dressed up to look like that particular hotel’s rooms when it was actually somewhere else.”

“Don’t mock me, Mozaffar!” Parviz said. “He’s made a fool of the police! Why didn’t you tell me sooner?!”

“I tried, but you weren’t listening!”

---

Elsewhere in Isfahan, Julian watched as the police’s heavy-handed crackdown played out on multiple computer screens, each also showing a red circle indicating a recording was in process.

“Like moths to a flame,” he said, “Mozaffar made me into his bogeyman, so he forces himself to treat me as one. People can be so predictable.”

“I’m surprised he fell for that,” Angelica said, “We didn’t put too much effort into the video.”

“When you want to believe in something, you see what you want to see,” Julian said, “This looks like enough material for Noor and Navid to work with. Now I just have to compress all of the files into something I can send…”

“Are you sure things are still going according to plan?” Tania said. “While Mozaffar did take the bait, we didn’t get the reactions we wanted from the general public.”

“That’s fine,” Julian said, “That’s why we have backup plans. The protests we’ve organized will no doubt spread across Isfahan and gain more supporters. They are close to reaching critical mass. One more push, and they’ll no longer need our help.”

“Does that mean we can start work on…” Angelica said.

Julian shook his head. “No, the defenses are still impenetrable.”

“What about the sewers?” Tania said. “We could try sneaking in that way.”

“Best not to waste our resources there for now,” Julian said, “On that front, we need to apply pressure from the public square. We should pick the battles we can win.”

“We sticking to our plan?” Angelica said.

“Yes,” Julian said, “Again, you might not like it, Angelica.”

“Try me.” Angelica cracked her knuckles. “As long as Mozaffar likes it less.”


Elsewhere

Angelica climbed out of the Balmung and leapt down to the ground. A light layer of red dust kicked up around her boots, accompanied by a muffled rustling coming from her boots. She appreciated the advancements in vac suits made out of necessity over the last few years. To allow humanity to better explore the surface of its new home, vac suits had to be as easy to put on as another layer of clothing, while retaining the same safety and durability of older models designed for space. The military-issue model she wore was flexible and comfortable, like a heavy coat. At first, she felt concerned that there was only a thin layer separating herself and her oxygen supply from the thin atmosphere, but the company assured her not a single vac suit had ever ruptured outside of combat.

Angelica looked around, taking in the sights of the Martian surface. She was currently near the apex of Olympus Mons, though from the gentle sloping and sheer size of the mountain it looked no different from any other part of the surface. It was far different from the mountains she was used to on Terra. No… Her eyes turned up to the sky. It had been twenty years, but the blue Martian twilight still felt off to her, as if she still longed for the beautiful sunsets from home. The positions of the stars were still roughly the same. She reached up and pointed at a location she had memorized since her first day on Mars. Her visor followed her finger, marked the area, and zoomed in, revealing two new stars—one smaller than the other—in the sky. There you are…ma maison.

“Found you, Angelica.” Angelica turned around and found Julius casually leaning against the Balmung, arms crossed. The Sigurd was parked in the distance. She had been so lost in her thoughts that she had tuned out the Sigurd’s approach. “Stargazing as usual?”

“Yes.” Angelica looked back up at the distant Earth. “Thinking of home.”

“Thinking of old Terra.”

“Earth.” In private, Angelica didn’t hesitate to use that name, even when speaking to the emperor himself. “Yes. I can’t help but think of where we came from.”

“Terra is dead, Angelica.” Julius had no reason to use formalities in private. “That’s why we’re here.”

“Consider it the ramblings of someone who remembers the planet, but I can’t help but think otherwise.” Her visor scrolled through data on Earth’s atmosphere gathered by the latest imperial probes. “The atmosphere isn’t as irradiated as we once thought. And there are signs of continued human habitation. New sources of light, new structures, even a few radio transmissions. There are still people down there.” She pulled up a map of Europe and focused on what was once France. “Perhaps even my hometown is still alive.”

Julius nodded. “Yes, I’ve seen the data as well. I was briefed on it as soon as we received it.”

“And yet we refuse to do anything.”

“It’s not so much as refusing as being unable to do anything.” Julius gestured to the plains of Olympus Mons stretching out past the horizon. “This planet—our new home—is still at war. Our empire is the only hope for Terrankind, but UNAP intends to repeat the same mistakes as our forefathers did. We don’t have time to go back to a dead planet.”

That was true. They were still at war with UNAP. With the surrender of Mangala’s remaining habitats, many of the other nations had either followed suit or rallied around UNAP. UNAP was the last major faction with an industrial base, technology, and manpower the Reich could not easily crush in a single strike. But Julius would try anyways. At the end of the month, all of the Reich’s assets—both on the ground and in space—would be called into play for an attack on the UNAP capital, Beck. It was something they had been planning for months, even during the Mangala campaign. The timing had to be just right for all variables to perfectly line up and ensure victory. But right now, Angelica didn’t want to discuss the plan. She didn’t have to see through Julius’ visor to know what he was thinking. “What about after we win, Julius?”

At that, Julius visibly recoiled. No gasp was transmitted to her audio, but she knew there was one. She shook her head. “Honestly, Julius, you’ve never been able to hide anything from me. You never had plans to go back to Earth, right?”

“Why should I concern myself with a planet that I’ve only lived on as an infant and never personally knew?” Julius’ voice rose. “Look around you, Angelica. All these red rocks, this mountain you say isn’t a mountain, the blue twilight you say is unnatural—it’s all natural to me. It’s all I’ve ever known. Mars is the only planet I’ve lived on. I’ve spent my entire life in habitat domes, autoritters, and vac suits. I’ve never known a breathable atmosphere or wide open areas you can walk around in without limit—without a vac suit even. The priests talk about Jesus’ miracles at the Sea of Galilee, but I don’t know what a sea is. Yet people your age always talk about this glorious Eden, full of free air, unregulated water sitting around everywhere, sharp mountains like spears, and blue skies and red sunsets. To me, that sounds alien. That is what sounds unnatural. If it’s so great, then why is it an irradiated hellscape? Why were we cast out of it?”

Angelica looked across the barren red wastes. She closed her eyes and pictured a grassy meadow, with birdsong in the air, a light breeze rustling through her hair, and sunlight warming her skin. But as hard as she tried, the illusion fell apart. She could still sense the vac suit’s helmet boxing in her head from the echoes of her breaths. The vac suit’s sensors registered no wind, and even if there was, it wouldn’t feel the same.

“Julian.” The boy emperor let out an audible gasp. There was another old and discarded name Angelica didn’t hesitate to use. “I may sound like UNAP right now, but if you think about it, you’re the one who’s similar to our enemy.”

“And why’s that?”

“UNAP is rooted in the past. They cling to it like a lifeline, ignoring the reality of the present and the possibility of the future. But you do the opposite. You wish to discard the past entirely, focus entirely on the future. You speak of building a new home for Terrankind on Mars, one with no room for the old ways.”

“Is that a bad thing?” Julius said. “If the old ways failed us, then we should discard them. Build something entirely new.”

“What foundations, Julian?” Angelica snapped “What foundations will you root your new world in?”

“I will not build my new world on rotten foundations!”

“And what if some of the old foundations still stand?! Will you tear them down with the rotten ones, or make use of them to maintain continuity? If we discard everything about our pasts, including those ideas and traditions that sustained us without destroying us, then what part of our civilization did we end up saving?”

“I…I…” Julius could not respond.

“Remember, Julian, you cannot discard the entirety of our history on a whim, just because parts of it destroyed Terra,” Angelica said, “It is up to you to salvage what can still be salvaged and use that to build the foundations to the future. Otherwise, we will never learn from our predecessors’ failures.”

Julius went silent. After a few moments, he gave his reply. “It is still difficult for me to see the importance in returning to a planet that I have only seen as an irradiated mess.”

“The old Earth that was will be a roadmap for the new Terra,” Angelica said, “After all, it is still the only planet we know of with a natural biosphere capable of supporting Terran life. Even if it’s irradiated, the data we gather on how it works will be instrumental in terraforming efforts. Furthermore, if we gather soil that isn’t irradiated, we can use it to supplement our agricultural efforts here. And finally, why wouldn’t we rescue any survivors still there and bring them here to become loyal imperial subjects? Would we leave our fellow Terrans to die and spend centuries struggling to terraform this planet?”

“Fellow Terrans…”

“Should they have a right to live with us, just like us, who escaped here twenty years ago? Or should we condemn them to a slow and painful death in the wastes?”

“But…”

“And terraforming efforts. How will we create a livable atmosphere here if we refuse to study the only other one we know? How will we grow crops from the lifeless dust on Mars if not for the soil of old Terra?”

“Uh…”

“How long will terraforming take? How much longer are you willing to delay it, just so the new Terra is purified, as you say, of the old ways? How long will we have to wait because you were not willing to use what worked, Julian?!”

“I—” Julius stammered. Then he relented, like he always did. “Okay, okay, you win. Perhaps there is some merit in returning to old Terra.”

“Of course there is,” Angelica said.

“Perhaps there are things worth saving from old Terra,” Julius said, “I’ll have to think more about it. But just as we shouldn’t forget the past, nor should we forget the present. We have a war with UNAP to win.”

“As soon as we return to Olympus Base, I will begin preparations. Beck will fall under my sword, I swear upon it.”

“Glad to hear it, Angelia,” Julius said, “I can’t wait to see what the Valkyrie of Alençon will do.”

“I will not disappoint you, my Emperor.” Angelica’s voice grew more formal.

“And after our victory, we will discuss old Terra. You have my word.”

Angelica nodded. “Thank you, Julius.”

---

Sorry for the delay. I know I said I needed more time, but I don't want you guys to wait any longer.