The Hohenzollern Empire 5: Holy Phoenix - An Empire of Jerusalem Megacampaign in New World Order

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
23 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.655
101
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Saint Wilhelmina and Kirill would be happy that their descendants are getting along and might be able to reunite the family again, despite whatever differences they may have. Fredrich and Ilyana's bonding reminds me of Otto and Victoria Louise's relationship in a way.

That part of Wilhelmina punching the Ecumenical Patriarch is funny to me, since I remember Saint Wilhelmina doing something similar to the Pope before kicking him out of the Vatican. It's also ironic as well, given some dark things about the OTL counterpart of that particular Ecumenical Patriarch that have come to light.
Yea. Similarly to how North Eimerica has for the 1990's and 2000's been TTL's Middle East I can see the fall of the Committee leading to Europe being like the Balkans of OTL during the Yugoslav Wars after the fall of Communist Yugoslavia but on steroids.
I remember hearing about how after the fall of the Iron Curtain, the prevailing sentiment among many Eastern Europeans became one of pessimism and cynicism due to how bad things remained. It could be similar among the Roman if the committee falls. That is, if the fall is a peaceful one. It could be worse if the fall is violent.
Come to think of it, a multicultural entity like the Reich collapsing to populism and genocidal bigotry does sound a lot like Yugoslavia. I guess we can saw that Otto is Witko is Tito now. :p

Considering how incompetent and hedonistic Saint Wilhelmina's grandson and eventual heir became (to the point where the 1900 breakdown of the Reich in Vicky 2 implied he hobbled the military and bureaucracy, which would cause of a lot of problems for future Kaisers up to Siegfried I and might have caused some of the Reich's early losses in the Sunset Invasion) after Saint Wilhelmina's son and intended heir died, I wonder if it's possible that Wilhelmina lost her son to the Worm in the end?

After remembering some Vicky 2 cultural discussions about them, I wonder how the Inti-Christian faith in Neurhomania or the Baha'i faith in the Middle East are doing now, given how certain it is the Committee hates syncretic religions like Antras Sansas as heresies just as much as it hates other religions like Judaism and Islam? It would ironic for Baha'i followers to go back to Persia to escape the Committee, considering how it started. As for the Inti-Christian religion, yeah it's likely as screwed as Nsoralan Malians or Nahua even if you don't account for the Commitee due to the warlords.

Is it just me, or does it look like North Japan's democratization process will end up looking something like Ataturk's Turkish Republic, in contrast to the South embracing Jerusalemite style nationalism and religious fanaticism and Korea drifting to Han and Zhao style populism?
 
Last edited:

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
56 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
9.571
2.615
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
Saint Wilhelmina and Kirill would be happy that their descendants are getting along and might be able to reunite the family again, despite whatever differences they may have. Fredrich and Ilyana's bonding reminds me of Otto and Victoria Louise's relationship in a way.
I wouldn't be surprised if Otto and Victoria Louise played the same children's game as kids over a century ago. It's timeless maybe because of its ties to the Worm.
That part of Wilhelmina punching the Ecumenical Patriarch is funny to me, since I remember Saint Wilhelmina doing something similar to the Pope before kicking him out of the Vatican. It's also ironic as well, given some dark things about the OTL counterpart of that particular Ecumenical Patriarch that have come to light.
and I did mention the incident in the chapter where Wilhelmina was born

True. That did not age well.
Come to think of it, a multicultural entity like the Reich collapsing to populism and genocidal bigotry does sound a lot like Yugoslavia. I guess we can saw that Otto is Witko is Tito now. :p
Mods: laser eyes intensify

Yeah, I do see similarities with the collapse of Yugoslavia.
Considering how incompetent and hedonistic Saint Wilhelmina's grandson and eventual heir became (to the point where the 1900 breakdown of the Reich in Vicky 2 implied he hobbled the military and bureaucracy, which would cause of a lot of problems for future Kaisers up to Siegfried I and might have caused some of the Reich's early losses in the Sunset Invasion) after Saint Wilhelmina's son and intended heir died, I wonder if it's possible that Wilhelmina lost her son to the Worm in the end?
That could be possible. I didn't elaborate too much on him. The cult could also have killed Ali at some point, but I'd rather not have the deaths of every single supporting character I didn't talk too much about to be attributed to the Worm.
After remembering some Vicky 2 cultural discussions about them, I wonder how the Inti-Christian faith in Neurhomania or the Baha'i faith in the Middle East are doing now, given how certain it is the Committee hates syncretic religions like Antras Sansas as heresies just as much as it hates other religions like Judaism and Islam? It would ironic for Baha'i followers to go back to Persia to escape the Committee, considering how it started. As for the Inti-Christian religion, yeah it's likely as screwed as Nsoralan Malians or Nahua even if you don't account for the Commitee due to the warlords.
Internally, I consider the Nsoralan regions to be under the rule of ethnic Malian warlords, and it's not a stretch to say some of them might follow the syncretic Inti-Christian faith. As for the Baha'i, I'm not sure as I didn't talk too much about them. But it's safe to assume everyone in the Middle East is likely screwed for ethnic, cultural, religious, or ideological reasons.
Is it just me, or does it look like North Japan's democratization process will end up looking something like Ataturk's Turkish Republic, in contrast to the South embracing Jerusalemite style nationalism and religious fanaticism and Korea drifting to Han and Zhao style populism?
Hayabusa actually wants to bring back the shogun but doesn't have the political support for it yet. He would also grant the emperor asylum if he is found. So the north might end up reverting to the old constitutional monarchy system, with some moderate Paulluist influences.
 

GhostRider124

Major
53 Badges
Oct 21, 2018
570
47
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II
Saint Wilhelmina and Kirill would be happy that their descendants are getting along and might be able to reunite the family again, despite whatever differences they may have. Fredrich and Ilyana's bonding reminds me of Otto and Victoria Louise's relationship in a way.
Hopefully when the Reich is restored and the Hohenzollern's as well that Fredrich's rule will last as long as Otto's did when it comes time for him to rule. After the Committee falls I can see Wilhelmina ruling from now to 2100 since I think she is only in her 30's or 40's (50's at most) unless Elias douse something to mess that up. I can also see Fredrich ruling when we get to the Stellaris part of the story 2100 and beyond.
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
23 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.655
101
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Hopefully when the Reich is restored and the Hohenzollern's as well that Fredrich's rule will last as long as Otto's did when it comes time for him to rule. After the Committee falls I can see Wilhelmina ruling from now to 2100 since I think she is only in her 30's or 40's (50's at most) unless Elias douse something to mess that up. I can also see Fredrich ruling when we get to the Stellaris part of the story 2100 and beyond.
I think Wilhelmina would be 118 if she does live up to 2100 (as she's 56 now), which while unlikely it is possible for her to live that long, especially with medical advances, pretty sure the oldest people alive IRL are that age. On that hand, Elias and Theodor could live that long as well if Jerusalem doesn't fall. I do remember seeing some playthroughs of Stellaris where rulers end up living for crazy long periods of time, even without stuff that boosts average lifespans.
That could be possible. I didn't elaborate too much on him. The cult could also have killed Ali at some point, but I'd rather not have the deaths of every single supporting character I didn't talk too much about to be attributed to the Worm.
Fair enough, I must that say 51 does seem like a relatively young age for Gunhilda to die at though, so I wonder if there's some Worm related foul play there?
 
Last edited:

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
56 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
9.571
2.615
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
Hopefully when the Reich is restored and the Hohenzollern's as well that Fredrich's rule will last as long as Otto's did when it comes time for him to rule. After the Committee falls I can see Wilhelmina ruling from now to 2100 since I think she is only in her 30's or 40's (50's at most) unless Elias douse something to mess that up. I can also see Fredrich ruling when we get to the Stellaris part of the story 2100 and beyond.
Otto only reigned as long as he did because he ascended to the throne at age 7 or so and then lived to 108. For Friedrich to do the same, the committee would have to fall within the next two years and Wilhelmina and Joseph have to die so he is put on the throne at age 6-7...at which point people would question on why a toddler is on the throne in that current geopolitical climate and just abolish the monarchy.
I think Wilhelmina would be 118 if she does live up to 2100 (as she's 56 now), which while unlikely it is possible for her to live that long, especially with medical advances, pretty sure the oldest people alive IRL are that age. On that hand, Elias and Theodor could live that long as well if Jerusalem doesn't fall. I do remember seeing some playthroughs of Stellaris where rulers end up living for crazy long periods of time, even without stuff that boosts average lifespans.
The oldest person ever in real life died at the age of 122, so it's unlikely Wilhelmina would live that long. If Jerusalem doesn't fall, I could see Theodor extending his own life with whatever Annionaverse tech he can get his hands on, although he no longer has access to the data core and the Annionaverse was never as good as the Hohenzollernverse with the biomedical sciences.
Fair enough, I must that say 51 does seem like a relatively young age for Gunhilda to die at though, so I wonder if there's some Worm related foul play there?
Or she went out fighting the Worm and taking as many cultists down with her.
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
23 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.655
101
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Or she went out fighting the Worm and taking as many cultists down with her.
That's a nice story, Gunhilda going into a coma after an epic battle with Worm cultists and then holding out long enough to have a reconciliation with her daughter, very fitting way for her to go out.

While I am glad Wilhelm Karl redeemed himself in the end, I wonder how things would've gone had gone if he never became Kaiser and Wilhelmina or someone else like Horst or Georg succeeded Otto, or if Elisabeth Alexandria never died at all and X-Division defeated Sentinel in 2001 or something? Surely Elias would never would've gotten as far as he did, right? Feels like 2001 was in many years the year that set in motion the rise of the Committee and where the Reich truly fell.
 
Last edited:

GhostRider124

Major
53 Badges
Oct 21, 2018
570
47
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II
I think Wilhelmina would be 118 if she does live up to 2100 (as she's 56 now), which while unlikely it is possible for her to live that long, especially with medical advances, pretty sure the oldest people alive IRL are that age. On that hand, Elias and Theodor could live that long as well if Jerusalem doesn't fall. I do remember seeing some playthroughs of Stellaris where rulers end up living for crazy long periods of time, even without stuff that boosts average lifespans.
Otto only reigned as long as he did because he ascended to the throne at age 7 or so and then lived to 108. For Friedrich to do the same, the committee would have to fall within the next two years and Wilhelmina and Joseph have to die so he is put on the throne at age 6-7...at which point people would question on why a toddler is on the throne in that current geopolitical climate and just abolish the monarchy.
The oldest person ever in real life died at the age of 122, so it's unlikely Wilhelmina would live that long. If Jerusalem doesn't fall, I could see Theodor extending his own life with whatever Annionaverse tech he can get his hands on, although he no longer has access to the data core and the Annionaverse was never as good as the Hohenzollernverse with the biomedical sciences.
Yea I was just saying that I see Wilhelmina and Friedrich both having potently very long reign's.

While I am glad Wilhelm Karl redeemed himself in the end, I wonder how things would've gone had gone if he never became Kaiser and Wilhelmina or someone else like Horst or Georg succeeded Otto, or if Elisabeth Alexandria never died at all and X-Division defeated Sentinel in 2001 or something? Surely Elias would never would've gotten as far as he did, right?
I feel like if the X-Division did defeat Sentinel before it killed Elisabeth Alexandria leading to her becoming Kaiser instead of Wilhelm Karl I think the release of the Sentinel Papers that revealed the secret cabal trying to rule everything would still cause people to become hostile to the establishment allowing Elias to rise to power anyway. I can even see Wilhelm Karl becoming Kaiser in this scenario to due to the example of what he did to Otto in the actual story.

So like one of the Russian leaders said to Olga in a previous update in that it was only in the Reich that such conditions that lead to the Committee's rise would be possible.
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
23 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.655
101
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
I feel like if the X-Division did defeat Sentinel before it killed Elisabeth Alexandria leading to her becoming Kaiser instead of Wilhelm Karl I think the release of the Sentinel Papers that revealed the secret cabal trying to rule everything would still cause people to become hostile to the establishment allowing Elias to rise to power anyway. I can even see Wilhelm Karl becoming Kaiser in this scenario to due to the example of what he did to Otto in the actual story.

So like one of the Russian leaders said to Olga in a previous update in that it was only in the Reich that such conditions that lead to the Committee's rise would be possible.
Except in that scenario Ellie would‘nt have died and there wouldn’t be an 11/9 or war in Mexico, so I don’t think Elias would lead an authoritarian take over there. Maybe Theodor would’ve become the lead architect of Jerusalem in that timeline or something, wouldn’t that be a scary idea.:eek:
 

GhostRider124

Major
53 Badges
Oct 21, 2018
570
47
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II
Except in that scenario Ellie would‘nt have died
I thought Ellie had a disease like Cancer or something so I feel like she could die either way. I also feel like 9/11 would still happen due to the cause of the attack as stated in Chapter 451 that it was Roman forces near Tenochtitlan.

Maybe Theodor would’ve become the lead architect of Jerusalem in that timeline or something, would’t that be a scary idea.
Mabey in this scenario Elias and his squad would all be killed in Mexico allowing Theodor to take power instead?
 

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
56 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
9.571
2.615
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
That's a nice story, Gunhilda going into a coma after an epic battle with Worm cultists and then holding out long enough to have a reconciliation with her daughter, very fitting way for her to go out.
And I really didn't have her do that much "Joan of Arc" stuff in the actual game, so it would balance things out if I had her go down fighting the ultimate enemy.
Yea I was just saying that I see Wilhelmina and Friedrich both having potently very long reign's.
Friedrich is possible, but Wilhelmina is in her late 50s, so she would likely only reign 30-40 years.
While I am glad Wilhelm Karl redeemed himself in the end, I wonder how things would've gone had gone if he never became Kaiser and Wilhelmina or someone else like Horst or Georg succeeded Otto, or if Elisabeth Alexandria never died at all and X-Division defeated Sentinel in 2001 or something? Surely Elias would never would've gotten as far as he did, right? Feels like 2001 was in many years the year that set in motion the rise of the Committee and where the Reich truly fell.
The only alt-history scenario I could see is Elisabeth Alexandra not dying in 2001, possibly due to her and Anne's contingency plan actually working. Then Anne might still be alive, November 9 would still happen (since the plot was already in motion by then), but the escalation to war and the Patriot Act would not happen as that was Sentinel's doing. Otto might die a little bit later, maybe a few months, and then Elisabeth Alexandra would succeed him as a relatively similar ruler.
I feel like if the X-Division did defeat Sentinel before it killed Elisabeth Alexandria leading to her becoming Kaiser instead of Wilhelm Karl I think the release of the Sentinel Papers that revealed the secret cabal trying to rule everything would still cause people to become hostile to the establishment allowing Elias to rise to power anyway. I can even see Wilhelm Karl becoming Kaiser in this scenario to due to the example of what he did to Otto in the actual story.
Well even if the Sentinel files were leaked, Elisabeth Alexandra is still the rightful heir and would ascend to the throne. Wilhelm Karl would be off doing harmless stuff as it was Elias who goaded him into killing Otto and he wouldn't have done it himself.
So like one of the Russian leaders said to Olga in a previous update in that it was only in the Reich that such conditions that lead to the Committee's rise would be possible.
Yes.
Except in that scenario Ellie would‘nt have died and there wouldn’t be an 11/9 or war in Mexico, so I don’t think Elias would lead an authoritarian take over there. Maybe Theodor would’ve become the lead architect of Jerusalem in that timeline or something, wouldn’t that be a scary idea.:eek:
November 9 would still happen because the terrorists' plot had been formed months ago, but it wouldn't be as destructive or society changing because Sentinel had allowed it to proceed. So Ellie might still get cancer, or not, it's hard to say.
I thought Ellie had a disease like Cancer or something so I feel like she could die either way. I also feel like 9/11 would still happen due to the cause of the attack as stated in Chapter 451 that it was Roman forces near Tenochtitlan.
Yes, she got cancer as a result of breathing in certain toxic particles from the debris of the towers.
Mabey in this scenario Elias and his squad would all be killed in Mexico allowing Theodor to take power instead?
Theodor wouldn't be able to take power without Elias. It would probably end in Thierry becoming chancellor and actually leading the government. The Forum/CB would remain a political party.
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
23 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.655
101
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
And I really didn't have her do that much "Joan of Arc" stuff in the actual game, so it would balance things out if I had her go down fighting the ultimate enemy.
It would also spice up Saint Wilhelmina’s 30 years of peace on the story side, through I’m sure Gunhilda’s conflict with her adoptive daughter over the deportation programs would already do that.

A few pages ago, I suggested an Ottoman focused one off focused on Osman which could explain how he abandoned his rebellion and him and his descendants served the Hohenzollerns and gained rights for Sunni Muslims along way, but I wonder if it would be possible for Reinhard to be an antagonist to him later on, likely out of Reinhard’s envy or prejudice towards him? Apparently Osman died of illness years before Reinhard became Kaiser, so I guess they wouldn’t be rivals during his reign, but it would be still possible that Reinhard had him assassinated. Come to think of it, I wonder if we could say that attempt on Fredrich Augustin I‘s life actually came from Reinhard?
 
Last edited:

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
56 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
9.571
2.615
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
I do wonder how different things would be if Thierry and the Forum/CB remained the ruling party and how different they would be to the Committee?
They'd have a populist platform. They might be able to implement some of their policies, but much of their work takes time to complete, so it depends on if Thierry can win more terms and if his party maintains majorities.
It would also spice up Saint Wilhelmina’s 30 years of peace on the story side, through I’m sure Gunhilda’s conflict with her adoptive daughter over the deportation programs would already do that.
Although this happened towards the beginning of those 30 years of peace and I still have little for the rest of that time.
A few pages ago, I suggested an Ottoman focused one off focused on Osman which could explain how he abandoned his rebellion and him and his descendants served the Hohenzollerns and gained rights for Sunni Muslims along way, but I wonder if it would be possible for Reinhard to be an antagonist to him later on, likely out of Reinhard’s envy or prejudice towards him? Apparently Osman died of illness years before Reinhard became Kaiser, so I guess they wouldn’t be rivals during his reign, but it would be still possible that Reinhard had him assassinated. Come to think of it, I wonder if we could say that attempt on Fredrich Augustin I‘s life actually came from Reinhard?
Good idea. I haven't thought about it much. I could think about exploring that dynamic with Reinhard. Maybe I could have a comedic one-off about the founding of the Bottomless Tankard, bonus points if the Worm is involved.
 

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
56 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
9.571
2.615
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
I remember Saint Wilhelmina doing something similar to the Pope before kicking him out of the Vatican.
Now that I think about this more, I would like to actually expand on this incident. Although I remember writing this more as a exaggerated legend than a concrete historical fact, maybe it would be even more hilarious if the actual incident was crazier than that. Maybe the Pope was a cultist and Wilhelmina had an all out sword fight with him, and somewhere along the way the Pope got punched at least once. I did establish the Catholic Church was falling under the influence of the Worm cult by then.
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
23 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.655
101
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Now that I think about this more, I would like to actually expand on this incident. Although I remember writing this more as a exaggerated legend than a concrete historical fact, maybe it would be even more hilarious if the actual incident was crazier than that. Maybe the Pope was a cultist and Wilhelmina had an all out sword fight with him, and somewhere along the way the Pope got punched at least once. I did establish the Catholic Church was falling under the influence of the Worm cult by then.
Sounds funny to me and makes sense, given how the Worm here had corrupted the Catholic Church since the investiture controversy (although Heinrich IV winning the controversy may have set a bad precedent throughout the Reich’s history with the Kaiser having unquestioned political and spiritual authority up to the modern day). I also remember the legend saying she had the Pope thrown out of the Vatican by her own hands too, so maybe you work that in as well.

Out of curiosity, what would‘ve been France’s situation in 1066 and how it would play out in the following decades in your 11th century rework, considering that the French ended up like the Poles and Arabs after the conquests of the HRE and early Reich?
 
Last edited:

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
56 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
9.571
2.615
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
Sounds funny to me and makes sense, given how the Worm here had corrupted the Catholic Church since the investiture controversy. I also remember the legend saying she had the Pope thrown out of the Vatican by her own hands too, so maybe you work that in as well.
I intended for the “thrown out of the Vatican” thing to have been a figurative expulsion, but maybe she could have literally thrown him out a window. Would make for a hilarious inversion of history tropes where the real history is crazier than the one that’s written down.
(although Heinrich IV winning the controversy may have set a bad precedent throughout the Reich’s history with the Kaiser having unquestioned political and spiritual authority up to the modern day)
The Controversy would have set a long precedent of first secular rulers having more political authority than religious leaders, but it would be most decisive in weakening the Catholic Church as an institution and paving the way for the Schism, which would lead to the Byzantine Orthodox precedent of the emperor being head of the church instead of the Ecumenical Patriarch becoming dominant in the unified church, leading to the idea of separation of church and state not taking off in the Reich. And how did that end? Well, we know now.

Out of curiosity, what would‘ve been France’s situation in 1066 and how it would play out in the following decades in your 11th century rework, considering that the French ended up like the Poles and Arabs after the conquests of the HRE and early Reich?
The king at the time would have been the fourteen year old Philip I, who would have just ascended to the throne and begun ruling on his own in 1066. He was most known for an affair (at least from what Wikipedia says), which caused a rift with the Catholic Church and resulted in a papal excommunication. I could see him going down that same path. He would side with Heinrich against the Pope during the Controversy (although it would be a different Pope and he wouldn’t have had his affair yet). He might have joined Friedrich on the First Crusade, in which case he would have been too busy to participate in the Controversy.

I’m not sure about how the Sigmaringens eventually took the throne from him and the Capets. His and his son Louis’ reigns both saw gradual centralization of power away from feudal lords and onto the throne. Now I could have them both killed and wipe out the Capetian main line, but in-game I remember intentionally making sure the family didn’t die out. The only thing I could see happening is the feudal lords electing a Sigmaringen (although France doesn’t really have a tradition of electing monarchs), and their chances would be boosted by a Sigmaringen having married Louis and/or the claimant being Friedrich von Sigmaringen. But I don’t know how to get to that point.

After France falls under Sigmaringen rule (which I think happened around the 1080s-90s, but I’ll have to check the save file to be sure), it is brought into the HRE and then the Reich. The feudal lords who resisted Philip and Louis’ centralization would obviously not like the two Friedrichs’ reforms and violently resist, indirectly leading to Saint Wilhelmina’s aggressive purges decades later.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

TheAnguishedOne

Field Marshal
38 Badges
May 2, 2014
5.057
1.106
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
More wholesome goodness, I appreciate it.
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
23 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.655
101
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
I intended for the “thrown out of the Vatican” thing to have been a figurative expulsion, but maybe she could have literally thrown him out a window. Would make for a hilarious inversion of history tropes where the real history is crazier than the one that’s written down.
It would also be a pretty funny nod to the “defenestrations“ that happened in medieval and early modern Prague too.
The Controversy would have set a long precedent of first secular rulers having more political authority than religious leaders, but it would be most decisive in weakening the Catholic Church as an institution and paving the way for the Schism, which would lead to the Byzantine Orthodox precedent of the emperor being head of the church instead of the Ecumenical Patriarch becoming dominant in the unified church, leading to the idea of separation of church and state not taking off in the Reich. And how did that end? Well, we know now.
Feels like the Reich has had numerous opportunities to avoid becoming like Jerusalem and learn from its mistakes, such as during the Anarchy, Fifty Years War, Maximist Wars and the World Wars, and yet it kept screwing up, guess it was inevitable that something like Jerusalem would emerge.

I think I remember you bringing up that Judaism in Abyssinia has some heavy Coptic influences as a result of Ethopia‘s christian past to the point they believe Jesus is the messiah after @GhostRider124 posted his Tianxia update for the Middle East, so I was wondering how differently do you think Judaism in Abyssinia would be from other forms of Judaism seen in the Middle East, Europe and the Steppes based on how it emerged?
 

zenphoenix

Field Marshal
56 Badges
Mar 4, 2015
9.571
2.615
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
More wholesome goodness, I appreciate it.
everything's going to hit the fan now isn't it
It would also be a pretty funny nod to the “defenestrations“ that happened in medieval and early modern Prague too.
Exactly what I was thinking.:D
Feels like the Reich has had numerous opportunities to avoid becoming like Jerusalem and learn from its mistakes, such as during the Anarchy, Fifty Years War, Maximist Wars and the World Wars, and yet it kept screwing up, guess it was inevitable that something like Jerusalem would emerge.
More like it got through each of those dark times without fully learning its lesson, so history repeats itself and the darkness slowly grows.
I think I remember you bringing up that Judaism in Abyssinia has some heavy Coptic influences as a result of Ethopia‘s christian past to the point they believe Jesus is the messiah after @GhostRider124 posted his Tianxia update for the Middle East, so I was wondering how differently do you think Judaism in Abyssinia would be from other forms of Judaism seen in the Middle East, Europe and the Steppes based on how it emerged?
The idea of Ethiopian Judaism acknowledging Jesus as the Messiah yet not being a branch of Christianity is a rather new idea I came up with recently, so I haven't had much time to think about how exactly this isn't Christianity, or what other beliefs this branch of Judaism might have. Still have to flesh out steppes Judaism as well since that would obviously be very different from the European/Middle Eastern Judaism we are used to.
 

CaptainAlvious

Captain of the Imperial Guard
23 Badges
Mar 23, 2018
1.655
101
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
More like it got through each of those dark times without fully learning its lesson, so history repeats itself and the darkness slowly grows.
Yeah, the Reich really missed out on stuff like separation of powers and separation of church and state, even as secularism (through that was only implemented during Adenauer’s administration) and popular sovereignty took off. Despite all of Otto and Engelbert‘s talks of the Hohenzollernverse’s Reich being different from the Annoinaverse due to being a diverse nation rather than an feudal empire bent on assimilation, some elements of an empire remained.
The idea of Ethiopian Judaism acknowledging Jesus as the Messiah yet not being a branch of Christianity is a rather new idea I came up with recently, so I haven't had much time to think about how exactly this isn't Christianity, or what other beliefs this branch of Judaism might have. Still have to flesh out steppes Judaism as well since that would obviously be very different from the European/Middle Eastern Judaism we are used to.
Fair enough. Any ideas you got for Japanese Christianity tho, since it would obviously be different from Roman Christianity (which might result in Jerusalem seeing them as heretics even through the Commitee supports a Shinto/Buddhist South), particularly regarding it’s stance on the Emperor’s religious significance since even before the establishment of the Republic of Japan I think the Shogan in the North was officially ruling on behalf of the emperor?
 
Last edited: