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Too many updates to comment on all of them (missed yesterday due to a sudden illness), so I've only coherently read about loki's success in Rome, the disaster in Spain, and Narwhal's mixed bag in Athens. Still, it's all fascinating stuff and I'll read the rest more in-depth tomorrow. Thanks, gentlemen! :)
 
So are sieges a more protracted affair than in other AGEOD games? In my experience, sieges usually don't last through more than a couple of battles, or maybe I've been spending too much time playing WiA going immediately on the assault...
 
So as you can see I have quite a lot of troops being trained up and a reasonable reserve of replacements.


The replacement chit symbol that you have labelled as "Non legion" is actually garrison militia. The first replacement chit symbol is for regular troops and includes Legionaries, auxiliaries, slingers, javelinmen and marines. :)
 
Sieges in WiA are generally short affairs, if you bring some guns. Most forts are just some wood logs, and towns are generally just villages with a wood pallisade.... Only the oldest and largest towns had "real" European style fortifications at that time. The number of people, the amount of space and the style of warfare just didn't justify spending that much money and time on large fortifications. In Rise of Prussia (same time period) sieging a large town or strong fortification can take a long time if you are unlucky, the enemy has an engineer unit and/or a fort defender inside, and you are short on siege guns and/or engineers yourself.

I am a bit disappointed in the pirates in AJE - ok, he has an eyepatch, but I am missing the parrot...
 
July 87 - Displays of Bravery

After losing Rome a couple turns ago, I seize Athenae in one epic battle :

DbattleofAthenae.jpg


This is quite the victory. Unfortunately, the remains of the Pontic – Hellenistic army manages to retreat, as I could not trap it in the city.

But at least, Athens is taken :

Dfallofathens.jpg


So here is the situation in Greece :

DSituationGreece.jpg


AS you can see, as I was taking Athens, Thessalonica was captured :

DlossofTHeessa.jpg



And here are my orders :

Dorders.jpg


You cannot see the remains of the Pontic force I defeated because Romans have appaling scouting capacities, and thus enemy armies which retreat in mountains are out of my sight. I suppose it is broken anyway.

In the Far East, Lucullus have some victories ; nothing too big but it is still a please :

DSelinus1.jpg


Unfortunately, the Pirates are still there, so I will keep Lucullus in Selinus one more turn :

Dpoliceaction2.jpg


But to be honest, the big events are in Italy :

DNotsurprised.jpg


How dare they ? How dare they ? The proscriptions (I did not take picture, but yes I suffered from them and it drew me out of cash) were bad enough – but this ? What are those people ? Communists ?

Anyway, there is another piece of news. The Populares finally launched their final assault, much to my surprise, and had quite a surprise (so did I) :

DeventItaly.jpg


DDecisive.jpg


Let’s be honest that’s a crippling defeat ; but Loki100 had no idea about the equilibrium of forces and the importance of defensive position in AJE as it was his very first game. With one third of his main force destroyed, I can happily go retake Rome ! I am not too eager to pursue it, since for the same reason as in Greece I don’t see it (the population in the region is not loyal enough to tell me where they are) and I prefer Rome (sure fact) rather than running the risk of falling in more Populares.

Dracetorome.jpg


I suppose the Populares may go for Rome themselves.

Beginner’s Corner – Unit advanced description

When you click on an element, you have an advanced description of it.

Let’s have a look on the elements in a legion :


Unitstaradvanced.jpg


Note that Imperial legions are different from late Republic legions.

So, from top to bottom :

Nationality : ROM is for Roman. You get “replacements” for your lost / damaged elements by nationality.

Experience : Well, obvious. Note that all those elements are from the same unit, and so that elements within the same unit can have different levels of experience.

Strength : The number of “black guys” is the current strength, while the total number of guys is the maximum. Thus, the Roman cavalry has 5 strength points out of 6. I will call them “strength points” (SP) from now on.

Name & type

Number : this is exactly the same thing as the “strength”, except it is converted in a number of men (and / or horses, elephants, camels, siege machine, ships if applicable). The cavalry has 5 SP out of 6 – that’s 240 men and horses out of 300.

Offensive Fire : that’s the chance to hit when on the attack, at range. Each point gives you 2,5%. Archers are at about 10, slingers at 5. Javelineers can go up to 9, but of course they have less range than archers.

Defensive Fire : Same as offensive fire, but in defense. There is only a significant difference in the case of siege machine.

Initiative : Who shoots first… No effect on assault.

Range : Well, the range. For instance, whatever its initiative, archers facing legions will shoot first

Rate of Fire : Number of times a unit can shoot in a round of combat. A unit can shoot once per range up to the maximum of its rate of fire. For instance, archers with range 3 and ROF 2 will shoot once at range 3, once at range 2. They will not shoot at range 1 – it looks unrealistic but it is a simplification that gives realistic results.

Protection : For each point of protection, the chance to receive damage is reduced by 10%.

Discipine : This stat serves to about everything : chance to “form” a square when charged, chance to surrender in siege, chance to rout after taking hits, …

Assault : Each point gives 0,5% of chance to hit the enemy into assault. The two number (offense/defense) are always the same in AJE. It looks like very low but the “assault” test is done a lot more in combat than the range test.

Ranged / Assault damage : How much damage are done by these types of attack. The first is damage in SP, the second in cohesion.

Cohesion : Whether the unit is “exhausted” or not. The second number is the maximum, the first the current level. Cohesion will have its own beginner’s corner.

Movement : Type of movement. Each type of movement treats terrain differently

Speed Coeff. : Speed of the unit.

Detect Land / Sea Capacity to detect an opponent – it must beat the opponent “hide” ; which can have various bonuses. The highest Detect of the stack is used.

Hide Chance to stay unseen. The lowest hide of the stack is used. It can be modified a lot by terrain.

Weight : Weight of the unit, used when your transport it by ship

Support : A bit more complex – let’s just say that unit with “Support : Yes” do not count toward total frontage (i.e. the number of elements that can fight for a given terrain), or more accurately have their own frontage.

Police : How good is the element at gaining Military Control of a region.

Supply/Ammo : How much ammo/supply can carry, compared to its maximum.

Patrol : How much the unit can “block” enemy unit from passing. Patrol of a stack is the total of everyone’s patrol

Evade : How good is the unit to avoid enemy’s patrols. The evade of a stack is then averaged by unit - the lowest agerage evade of a stack is used to determine the evade of the whole stack.

Abilities : The abilities of the element. Note that the "Legion" ability becomes a detailled list brought by the Legatis element.

Money : Cost of the element in money

Day : How long it is to build an element.

Most of these elements will have their own beginner's corner.
 
Let’s be honest that’s a crippling defeat ; but Loki100 had no idea about the equilibrium of forces and the importance of defensive position in AJE as it was his very first game.

This might be a bit of a problem. Itis true that the roman army was good in building (temporary) fortifications for their armies,even when camping somewhere for a short time. But these where to make sure they were not overrun by a larger army, and to keep the supply and non-combattants safe in case of a battle. As far as I know, with more or less equal forces, the army was deployed in front of the camp fortifications. Several legions building a fortification, and then awaiting force of several other legions to assault them trench warfare style - just not done I think. (Unless everely outnumbered it would probably be bad giving up the ability to manouevre).

But I ill await counter examples :)
 
Huh, that's an aggressive move (though what should I expect having read a bunch of Narwhal AARs). I would've cut my losses and moved to Greece.
 
Surprising victory in Italy. I wonder if Loki can turn the tide when fresh (green) Legions arrive.

Well it was bad, but not game ending. I can recover my losses so its a race against time. The longer Sulla is kept busy in Greece, the more I have the chance to rebuild and still take control over italy

Let’s be honest that’s a crippling defeat ; but Loki100 had no idea about the equilibrium of forces and the importance of defensive position in AJE as it was his very first game.

This might be a bit of a problem. Itis true that the roman army was good in building (temporary) fortifications for their armies,even when camping somewhere for a short time. But these where to make sure they were not overrun by a larger army, and to keep the supply and non-combattants safe in case of a battle. As far as I know, with more or less equal forces, the army was deployed in front of the camp fortifications. Several legions building a fortification, and then awaiting force of several other legions to assault them trench warfare style - just not done I think. (Unless everely outnumbered it would probably be bad giving up the ability to manouevre).

But I ill await counter examples :)

I'll look at the battle in detail in my update. But with hindsight etc, there were other reasons - such as I only had 1 Roman (as opposed to Italian allied) legion against 3. I still think I had to attack, but maybe I could have waited a while till the force at Brundisium arrived. Or even better, from the start built a huge stack and ignored all other sectors in Italy.

Huh, that's an aggressive move (though what should I expect having read a bunch of Narwhal AARs). I would've cut my losses and moved to Greece.

That is now on my list of ideas. Its not that I want to help the Pontics but taking advantage of the chaos may work in my favour.
 
Turn 6 - Populares (July 87)

Brundisium surrenders without me needing to make a final assault (its taken 4 turns to capture a level 2 fortified city), using two full Roman legions. So that may give some idea of the average time to take out a city. Across the game I noted a far higher incidence of surrender (due to supply?) rather than having to launch a final assault compared to what I am used to from other AGE games (though this may also reflect the new siege mechanics introduced in the PoN 1.3 patch and applied across the AGE games)



But the big (bad) event is further north. Cinna and Marius combined and struck at Ancona. Oh well.



Well lets unpick it a bit. Rain maybe a bit of a problem. I was outnumbered (but that maybe false as the fleet are showing and I'm sure took no part in the actual battle). More critically I was outnumbered in terms of legionary cohorts (14 vs 50). As you can see my losses were mainly in terms of auxiliaries and Italian allies (the orange stuff). And the legionary entrenchment bonus.

Well for myself I think that gave the legions protection from ambush and the opportunity to avoid the usual post-battle slaughter if they lost. But I don't think they had any role in open battle.

So why attack?

Well my logic was I wanted to clear Italy if I could before Sulla gained control of Greece. I had a number of legions in training (but they were at least 4 turns away) and the 2 at Brundisium (and it would have taken 3 turns to get them up to Perugia). So I think it was a fair choice. But rather disastrous.

It seems the gods agreed.



But the citizens were really on my side



Bad news from Greece



Very bad news off Sicily



That is a huge Pontic fleet with an army. No wonder Narwhal is doing so well in Greece when the entire Pontic army is heading for Sicily. Has he bribed the AI?

Spain in the meantime carries on paying for its failure to resist the Spanish



After Ancona I think I need to make an effort to convince the populace that I am winning



So what to do?

Well Spain is lost, so no point trying to build any more forces there. I have one legion in training and if that survives maybe I can make an effective stand somewhere.

I have 4 legions in training in N Italy and the 2 that captured Brundisium. The main army can recover cohesion at Perugia. I think I'll use the 2 at Brundisium to invade Greece. Lets see if I can add to the chaos over there and buy a bit of time.

Sicily worries me (I have another legion being trained up at Syracusa), but maybe those Pontics are off to Spain?
 
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Subscribing - interesting AAR as I'd expect from you two :)
 
Narwhal said:
How dare they ? How dare they ? The proscriptions (I did not take picture, but yes I suffered from them and it drew me out of cash) were bad enough – but this ? What are those people ? Communists ?
I keep thinking there must be a fairly amusing AJE AAR waiting to be written from the perspective of a 1930s Soviet Communist historian, eager to prove to Stalin that some hapless losing party in a Roman civil war was basically trying to jumpstart communism 2,000 years early. But that's probably better left to loki, who seems to know the subject matter fairly well.

Good stuff going on - well, perhaps not for the Populares in Spain. Or in Sicily. Or near Ancona... But hey! Narwhal scored an impressive victory in Athens! :)
 
What's the comparative economic advantages? Because I'm surprised that, with a majority of his troops concentrated, Loki's army was still smaller than the Optimate's army in Italy. Or maybe things aren't being balanced because the Optimates are supposed to be fighting the Populares and the Pontics at once, and the Pontics have shipped a couple armies to Sicily?

I dunno, it just seems that the Populares are at a real disadvantage in this game.
 
I keep thinking there must be a fairly amusing AJE AAR waiting to be written from the perspective of a 1930s Soviet Communist historian, eager to prove to Stalin that some hapless losing party in a Roman civil war was basically trying to jumpstart communism 2,000 years early. But that's probably better left to loki, who seems to know the subject matter fairly well.
Hmm, is there a Spartacus slave rebellion scenario?
 
I keep thinking there must be a fairly amusing AJE AAR waiting to be written from the perspective of a 1930s Soviet Communist historian, eager to prove to Stalin that some hapless losing party in a Roman civil war was basically trying to jumpstart communism 2,000 years early. But that's probably better left to loki, who seems to know the subject matter fairly well.

Joke not, its true. In the more historically deterministic school of Marxist history (ie including Stalinism), there has been a lot of effort down those lines. In effect to prove that the class struggle in its pure capitalist form was hinted at in the nascent forms of those classes across different forms. Of course to that must be added a strict transition (everywhere, regardless of any engagement of reality) from slave-feudal-capital. Tosh of course, but that didn't stop it informing the mindset of a complete generation.

Now of course, taking Spartacus' name as a symbol of revolt has a long and noble traditional. And a lot of the debate in the French revolution was indeed couched in terms of this era. Both the names adopted by the various philosophical positions and by individuals were a very deliberate appropriation of the social and political debates in this era.


Hmm, is there a Spartacus slave rebellion scenario?

And, yes, if you buy before release you get a Spartacus scenario for free. I believe it will be generally available sometime later.

Subscribing - interesting AAR as I'd expect from you two :)

glad its down to our usual standard, it is indeed a fascinating game, but I think it will take some time to come to an idea which scenarios are well balanced, which you can balance by using player expertise etc

Good stuff going on - well, perhaps not for the Populares in Spain. Or in Sicily. Or near Ancona... But hey! Narwhal scored an impressive victory in Athens! :)
What's the comparative economic advantages? Because I'm surprised that, with a majority of his troops concentrated, Loki's army was still smaller than the Optimate's army in Italy. Or maybe things aren't being balanced because the Optimates are supposed to be fighting the Populares and the Pontics at once, and the Pontics have shipped a couple armies to Sicily?

I dunno, it just seems that the Populares are at a real disadvantage in this game.

Should add at Ancona that Narwhal's army looks larger due to the presence of the garrison (those units with the little castle symbol), a problem with those battle reports is the top line reports all the units in a province, not all those actually in the battle. More I think of it, more I think the imbalance in legions was key, and, if so, I should have moved those 2 I used to take Brundisium north. I might have won and then been able to do my sieges in relative peace.

If so its a good reminder of the mindset of take out the enemy's field army first.

I don't think the scenario is balanced. Narwhal has mentioned a few times that the Pontics have a huge but fragile army. As you've seen from the battle reports, veteran legions can take it apart and it needs a lot of care in terms of the supply system. I'm scrabbling to build an army and exploit a very brief window of opportunity.

Now as 1-1-1 (ie a player on the Pontics), things get interesting. Its in the interest of the Populares & the Pontics to get rid of Sulla first, so I doubt a Pontic player would have sent a large force to invade Sicily and my Greek gambit could have been more valid (both to give the Populares a toehold for later and to create even more pressure on Sulla).

In effect, like a lot of AGE games, the focus is on accuracy, play balance is secondary. I guess with experience, as with other games, a view will emerge as to which scenarios are well balanced or what split of sides will make up for different levels of experience (ie don't play your first RUS PBEM as the Reds in the long scenario etc)

Yay! A new AAR with loki and Narwhal!

There is something rather enjoyable at being back to doing this. Its not just the in-game activities, but the chance to correct the record afterwards
 
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Great AAR!

While I am waiting for my AJE, I am playing NCP.

How come, this game never recieved much love from players or AGEOD? It's French history, for Gods sake!

Some even calls it "The unloved son of AGEOD"...

Cheers,
 
I think mostly because NCP does not tie the battles together, in a grand campaign. Most of the scenario's are pretty short, with not to much choices. Not much player input, and obvious (historical) strategies and outcomes. And once you played them a few times, you can come up with ahistorical "tricks" to win - like rushing an army forward, swamping with cavalry and other tricks. T make matters worse the AI did seem to have a bit of problem with the time period - it was often leading with supply wagons and funny thing like that. What seems to be the most popular campaign - the peninsula war in Spain - had quite a bit of errors in it at the start leading to the wrong troops disappearing, leaders appearing twice, events not firing, partially firing or repeating- and so on. Those things might have been solved now, as Ageod is pretty good on following up, but by then people already had left the game for the next one.
 
Great AAR!

While I am waiting for my AJE, I am playing NCP.

How come, this game never recieved much love from players or AGEOD? It's French history, for Gods sake!

Some even calls it "The unloved son of AGEOD"...

Cheers,

I'm not sure. I've tried it PBEM and SP and the map is wonderful, the units detailed and gorgeous to look at, but it doesn't seem to work for me. I think the weekly turns shift the focus added to the brutal org-loss rules on movement, you can end up with a useless army that has done nothing but spend 2+ weeks exiting a single province.

As a test (am I not kind and considerate to you all :cool: ), I've rerun the first five turns SP, doing a number of different things.

I concentrated my weak, scattered Spanish forces at Novo Carthago and sent the North African units there (not least the Spanish force lacks for leadership). The Spanish revolt kicked off near modern Lisbon not Corduba so I almost have a single additional trained legion ready. This might allow me to contest the loss of Spain, but I have lost all the south.

Placed merchants turn 1, started requisitions turn 1 (provoked a slave revolt in N Africa). Lots more money, at least 2 more legions in training than I had in the PBEM.

Sent the legions from Tarentum to Cinna, took Rome on turn 2 in two separate assaults. Cinna beat up an isolated Sullan legion at Spoletum and joined with Marius turn 4. Hit 2+ legions at Ancona and won. Battle report below. Note I have 38 legionary cohorts against 30 but if anything the AI is better dug in than Narwhal was.



Sulla has just taken Athens. His 4 legions in Italy are scattered and 3 have been badly handled already.

So it looks like the only solution is to concentrate in Italy. Don't move the African forces till the winter storms end. The Spanish revolt is random, so I think your chances depend on where it kicks off. If the Sulla player also concentrates. Well you can stare at each other and take the chance with new legions to secure the rest of Italy? Still think its hard against a player to get control of Italy but I think I could now do it against the AI.

I think if the AI had done what Narwhal has done, I would still have lost at Ancona?