The heart of the game is broken

[gav1230]

I had these issues at first. Try to see if they're plotting against you, and make sure their de-jure lands are intact.

 

[unmerged(464016)]

You have the people skills of a rabid raccoon, I swear.

And no. Welsh people should definitely throw a fit if they're being ruled by someone that doesn't properly represent them. The game takes place during a period where cultural differences bred some degree of resentment.

I disagree.



What Odintge is saying is true. The ai are NOT remotely smart about choices of Guardian. I can invent a Roleplaying reason as to why that is , maybe my Wife just thinks the Homosexual , Wroth , Envious , Craven , Lunatic Bishop of a different culture is just swell..... but a sane person would never entrust a kid to that man. The ai DON'T care what culture or traits the proposed guardian has. HE could be an Ethiopian leper (as English rulers) and they would still pick said person for some reason.



And it does often lead to a change of Culture that is just aggravating. The biggest issue is the stupid "would be hostage in foreign power"..... You can't honestly tell me wives were able to constantly deny their husbands guardianship over their own children... Specially when the Father is of a higher rank and the kids of of HIS house. Worst of all , that "Foreign" power is actually the person who the boy is going to inherit both lands from. Its a flaw in the ai not being able to detect Fathers or close Dynasty members. Im sure it was never intended to be this way.


SO yes there are things you can do to avoid culture shift such as NEVER marry your children to anyone outside your own little realm. Never give any children with a - land (because they won't accept guardian ship within the SAME realm if they aren't at ++++ relations). And basically just keep your kids at your court forever and pray no one invites them to their courts. THAT has to scream flawed to you guys surely?




But overall , culture alone doesn't normally cause a rebellion cycle. So i suspect some other factors are coming into play (but culture shifting is damn annoying ).

I really haven't had these issues unless I've collected several small- to medium-sized kingdoms, which in itself is rather implausible as such realms would have been divided among sons upon succession, however as 1.6 will give the option of destroying titles for massive prestige this will soon be corrected. I do agree with the tediousness of smaller rebellions though and the plot-system really should be reworked as coalitions between rebellious nobles should be the rule and not the exception. Fighting a short war against a single duke as the king of France is boring, when half of your kingdom rises against you and actually matches your military strengt - that is just plain old fun.

xD i only play with Limited or Automos CA for this reason man. I think you are right , makes game much more interesting.

 

[Sopot]

SO yes there are things you can do to avoid culture shift such as NEVER marry your children to anyone outside your own little realm. Never give any children with a - land (because they won't accept guardian ship within the SAME realm if they aren't at ++++ relations). And basically just keep your kids at your court forever and pray no one invites them to their courts. THAT has to scream flawed to you guys surely?

Well, yeah, but if it's becoming a problem that your grand kids are running amock, then you try to stop that for next time or do something where you know you will have control over thier children, land your hier in your realm and force a guardian on thier children.

 

[AndrewT]

Just to remind everyone that they are to be civil to each other, regardless of perceived provocation. Criticise the game all you want, but no personal insults will be tolerated.

 

[unmerged(464016)]

Well, yeah, but if it's becoming a problem that your grand kids are running amock, then you try to stop that for next time or do something where you know you will have control over thier children, land your hier in your realm and force a guardian on thier children.

Never that simple.

In game im playing now , my first ruler lived to 77. My son inherited for about 2 months and died , i had elective and the ai did a last second switcharoo to make my heir my sister. She lived till 75. By this stage all my sons had grand kids , and in most cases , great grand kids. Well needless to say , i had no control over my great grand kids or even grand kids in most cases. They married off to ladies , some with higher ranks then count. Next thing you know my Saxon line suddenly turns German and it would have taken many many generations to fix it. However my Rulers wife eventually dies , i remarry , my first born son dies early and only has a daughter. So my 65 year olds 2nd born son becomes heir and i can finally convert him back to Saxon.


PURE luck , nothing really in my control. I can't control a landed sons marriages. And if i marry him off for land prior to granting him land , he can cause a potential loss of land (if the wife dies first or is of higher rank). So as i said , the only choice you have is to keep your sons in your court. It might work out if your lands are totally within their cultural de jures , but we know places like England are chaotic with regards to culture. France , HRE , Iberia , ERE , they all have widely varying cultures within them , its simply not fair to call the op anything bad when the mechanics are working against him to begin with.

 

[Sopot]

Never that simple.

Of course it's not that simple, I've had hiers that were Greek as England, but, I made sure that my kingdom was prepaired for that. You can't get a new ruler then suddenly freak out because people don't like him and say it's the games fault and they shouldn't rebel cos you gave them counties 3 years ago. You need to always be aware of what is going on in your Kingdom and who your successors will be, if they are going to be a terrible ruler, then plan for that, don't just say the game is broken.

 

[tnick0225]

One thing about it the OP sure has gotten the thread bumping

 

[unmerged(464016)]

Of course it's not that simple, I've had hiers that were Greek as England, but, I made sure that my kingdom was prepaired for that. You can't get a new ruler then suddenly freak out because people don't like him and say it's the games fault and they shouldn't rebel cos you gave them counties 3 years ago. You need to always be aware of what is going on in your Kingdom and who your successors will be, if they are going to be a terrible ruler, then plan for that, don't just say the game is broken.

Im not saying this at all l0l.

I never commented on the other issues. I responded directly to people attacking the guy over culture changes. And my point remains firm. Read the entire thread , there are people saying he is in the wrong entirely because he let his rulers culture change. O_O....... as my original quote said

Originally Posted by NezzeOne View Post

You have the people skills of a rabid raccoon, I swear.

And no. Welsh people should definitely throw a fit if they're being ruled by someone that doesn't properly represent them. The game takes place during a period where cultural differences bred some degree of resentment.

Again , all im trying to tell you guys is that the person you are insulting over cultural changes doesn't deserve the hate over that issue.

 

[NezzeOne]

Im not saying this at all l0l.

I never commented on the other issues. I responded directly to people attacking the guy over culture changes. And my point remains firm. Read the entire thread , there are people saying he is in the wrong entirely because he let his rulers culture change. O_O....... as my original quote said



Again , all im trying to tell you guys is that the person you are insulting over cultural changes doesn't deserve the hate over that issue.

I'm not insulting him because he disagrees on culture changes.

I'm calling him out on his incredible rudeness throughout this entire thread. But, I'm digressing, so I'ma hit the road.

 

[Sopot]

I never commented on the other issues. I responded directly to people attacking the guy over culture changes. And my point remains firm. Read the entire thread , there are people saying he is in the wrong entirely because he let his rulers culture change. O_O....... as my original quote said

Yeah, and I was one of the people that said he could have done something to prevent it, never went so far as to insult him, even though he was pretty hostile towards me, which is why people went after him I guess.

I'll always stand by my assessment that there is always something you can do.

 

[unmerged(464016)]

Yeah, and I was one of the people that said he could have done something to prevent it, never went so far as to insult him, even though he was pretty hostile towards me, which is why people went after him I guess.

I'll always stand by my assessment that there is always something you can do.

But there isn't and you admitted that.

Of course it's not that simple, I've had hiers that were Greek as England,

How'd this happen if there is always a way.


I don't think there is much to be gained by me repeating the same things. You have already read why and how culture changes are sometimes simply nonviable mechanics. And you yourself have been a victim of it.



Anyway this thread is turning pretty silly. Maybe he was rude , maybe others were rude. I don't really want to get involved in that. I feel ive made my point about culture mechanics clear so ill leave it at that. good day!

 

[Sopot]

But there isn't and you admitted that.
How'd this happen if there is always a way.

You know how it happened or can guess, but you misunderstood what I mean, there is always a way to avoid the rebellions, cultural penalty is never enough on it's own to cause a rebellion, something else has to be in play.

 

[Maizel]

I never have the problems OP is describing. Thereb are sometimes Dukes wh are always rebelious, but that is mostly due to distance.

I would suggest a different playstyle for OP.

 

[Keanon]

Personally I think that the relation changes are way too radical and would half all the +'s and -'s so that it takes more to love and more to hate.

 

[MasterofMagic]

Why do dukes, no matter how much they like you before they became duke, always hate you? They will always have the huge desires modifiers and will eventually revolt. No matter what you do they revolt. You can push their claims, hand them counties, THEY CAN EVEN BE OF YOUR DYNASTY, and they will still revolt. To balance these negative modifiers you need to sustain around a +45 opinion, but the modifiers capable of mitigating this seem to dissapear after so many years. You can't stop dukes from rising against you- really, every couple years you get to play as Abe Lincoln with dukes instead of states. This is ruining the game. I'm not an incompetant that can't please my dukes; I can take over the map via war or peace; I can play a small realm, never expand my borders, and still cover the map with my dynasty. I've been playing the game since it came out and one of teh last patches ruined the game. I've watched youtube let's plays; I've watched the ai that controls neighboring countries and guess what?? They all have revolts all the time.

And what do you do about the duke problem? Forget executing anyone for treason because you can't afford the -10 modifier it brings- it doesn't set the example it should for treason: IT ENCOURAGES TREASON. you have to let them out for the +10, but it doesn't matter, cause more dukes are still going to revolt! Forget fabricating claims, cross your fingers and hope for that opinion bonus to hold off the next war for a couple years so you can finish a building. I hate having to hand out gifts every couple years- it's tedious. Why do honorary titles give less of a bonus than a gift? Do you know how covetted they were? If dukes are going to act like this boosting the bonus of honorary titles might be a way to fix the problem. I have don't have the interest or time to mod though- I don't care if it's easy.

Do you know how slow the game plays when you're at war? Do you know how boring it is to fight the same war for the 5th time with the same ruler?? Besides, who are these IDIOTS that think their 5 counties plus their couple supporting counts can take over france or the hre? Please don't tell me to just not use dukes, create kingdoms, or whatever- setting up vassels is the heart of the game and unfortunately, it's currently broken. It isn't suppose to work like this. This is a serious problem. I played several games before I came to this conclusion too in order to make sure it's true.

This is such a huge deal because pleasing your vassels is the heart of the game. Whether you're small or large, if your vassels are happy the game is easy. It's not always possible to have happy vassels- and that's good because it makes you appreciate a good ruler; the challenge is fun. But right now it's not possible to keep dukes from rebelling. This has got to be fixed before I buy an expansion or even play any more which is too bad cause I really like the game. The game is just not fun past 1120 or so.

Play a DUKE yourself and you won't have these problems. I have over 50 counts/counties and I keep everyone pretty happy and hardly anyone ever dips below -1 and since they really upped the amount of love you get from gifting it makes it even easier to keep them happy. Why do you need to play a King anyways? Dukes have always been the FUN of this game.

 

[unmerged(179107)]

This thread brought tears to my eyes from laughter, but then I became disappointed that you guys even commented on what's obviously a troll thread.

 

[MasterofMagic]

This thread brought tears to my eyes from laughter, but then I became disappointed that you guys even commented on what's obviously a troll thread.

Well, not necessarily as I've read others on here that have had problems playing as a King. He just doesn't know how to play a King well. One of the many things missed or overlooked from trying to play too fast is looking at ALL the stats of your prospective Dukes and seeing what will effect you negatively when placed on a throne. Things like being foreign, ambitious, zealous as those 3 things right there can knock a chuck out of their love for you. Of course there's a lot more as anything opposite to your traits become a negative also.

One thing about this game though is it isn't really designed to play comfortably easy from start to finish. It's suppose to be a challenge and make you scratch your head. I think there some players out there that think it should be a walk in the park when they have everything in place that SEEMS comfortable and correct. Jest didn't happen that way in history.

 

[Gedierond]

Since a lot of people have already stated their points of view on why they mostly disagree with the OP, I won´t get there. I´m just posting here to say that I actually agree that vassals shouldn´t revolt if they are hopelessly outnumbered and without allies. It really doesn´t make much sense. The AI should be tweaked a bit to realise when it has a good chance of succeeding, or at least when there´s a good chance that a revolt will spark a full civil war.

 

[Voy]

Since a lot of people have already stated their points of view on why they mostly disagree with the OP, I won´t get there. I´m just posting here to say that I actually agree that vassals shouldn´t revolt if they are hopelessly outnumbered and without allies. It really doesn´t make much sense. The AI should be tweaked a bit to realise when it has a good chance of succeeding, or at least when there´s a good chance that a revolt will spark a full civil war.

Excellent post! Vassals should plot more instead of throwing themselves inside my dungeon.

 

[spinoza013]

Excellent post! Vassals should plot more instead of throwing themselves inside my dungeon.

This is true