Armour however is a big thing, to me it is at least. 11 FAV vs 7 is a major factor to me, 30 points is more than enough to make up for it, plus that extra 50cal.
The Guards Armoured Division balance
- Thread starter Harold Alexander
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Armour however is a big thing, to me it is at least. 11 FAV vs 7 is a major factor to me, 30 points is more than enough to make up for it, plus that extra 50cal.
It's a factor, but i've found with medium tanks that the need to get mass outweighs the need for better front armor and the 20% premium is a bit rough. I don't think either tank is amazingly cost-efficient, though.
Fun fact, French division tank crew are better trained and got more equipment available than the Guard Armoured.
On a serious note, firefly should increase vet.... otherwise it's just expensive and ineffective to fight panthers.....
On a serious note, firefly should increase vet.... otherwise it's just expensive and ineffective to fight panthers.....
Cant agree here, 12th armoured have superior options on all phases.
Recon tab
12th > Guards armoured because of glorious SPW 222, spahtroppen and other things on different phases. ACW and Humber is good but they are not on the same lvl of effectivness as autocannons.
Infantry tab
12th > Guards because of glorious 2x mg 42 panzergrenadiers, and cheap 2 star commanders/halftracks. Rifles with current mg and firesupport balance are absolute garbage.
Tank tab
12th >> Guards, cromwels is not good unit because you can counter it even with light cannons and autocannons. On phase B with 12th div you have a lot of 1 and 2 star tanks and very strong panthers and 2 star tigers .
Support
Guards > 12th but not much, cromwell cs is very fragile and crocodile is not very effective on phase C when germans have KT, tigers panthers and flaks/pak's 43.
Arty
12th >> Guards, 12th div have mortar halftrack with 1200 range - that is much better and much effective than 25pdr and sexton on phase A and cheaper. Also 12th have different mobile and very powerful rocket artillery on phase B and C, but guars are stuck with 25 pdrs without stars on all phases.
Anti Air
12th > Guards, guards have crapsten and 2 types of crusaders, crusader MK 2 is mediocre AA, and crusader MK 1 is good, but 12th have wilberwind on phase A, and many other stuff like the Flak 88 and Flak 36/37.
Air tab
12th >>> Guards, 12th have very good 2x2 star Bf 109 on phase B, guards have the tempest without stars on B and with 1 star on C, 2 star bf 109 is cheaper and better than tempest without stars.
12th is an insanely good deck and i don't think anyone is really going to be able to match them right now
Ultra aggressive playing with this deck can be stopped by the 1 at gun in the bush. I win 8 games of 10 with this deck vs some noobs, but in competitive games vs good opponents this deck is absolutely garbage, especially vs infantry decks with big amount of effective infantry and cheap at cannons in 1x1 2x2 .
Actually this deck is bad at tank warfare, because all tanks are so fragile and dont have stars, and this deck is very bad in infantry fights, because rifles are weak, and bren groups are useless. Arty on phase A is not the savior in this situation, because 25 pdr have low accuracy, low HE and low splash.
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Have to agree with OP, this division is weak. I like the idea of an armored division with a solid tank tab and an inf tab like this, ie a combination of spam inf and decent transports. The tank tab is very weak when you compare it with axis armored decks. Unvetted one per card Firefly in B and one per card vet Firefly in C... You are not going to win head on tank battles- fair enough, but then your division needs the proper support assets to turn the tank battle into your favor, like solid AoE arty or good plane tab. This division has neither.
Also, how to deal with henschell on phase A? Any thoughts? That spitfire bomber on phase A looks decent but too slow and too expencive for that purpose.
You know what I think it is? I think that the Guards nor Polish actually have anything that stands out as being exceptional. They both feel like they have a lot of mediocre units, in all tabs with no viable unicorns that makes the division pop. They're actually quite bland, and with so much mediocrity, divisions like the 3rd Canadian and 15th Scots tend to bring more to the table in a competitive setting.
Big reason i want cromwell in the recce tab and the AEC in support. AEC will be a fairly interesting/unique support tab unit and the cromwell will be a "unique" recce unit especially the mk VII with 11 armour (an 11 armour recon is something nobody else goes near, right?).
But my thread over on the eugen forums about it doesnt seem to have picked up much support, if people like that idea of the AEC swapping over for "pop" or just like the idea, support it, show eugen you want it ^^. If not then fair enough
Agreed.
Agreed.Big reason i want cromwell in the recce tab and the AEC in support. AEC will be a fairly interesting/unique support tab unit and the cromwell will be a "unique" recce unit especially the mk VII with 11 armour (an 11 armour recon is something nobody else goes near, right?).
But my thread over on the eugen forums about it doesnt seem to have picked up much support, if people like that idea of the AEC swapping over for "pop" or just like the idea, support it, show eugen you want it ^^. If not then fair enough
The Guards have a lot going for them, it's just not flashy.
Form a line across the map in A and slowly push forward with mediums, arty, and infantry in B. If you meet resistance you can't crack, stop pushing and swing in from the flanks.
This play style is specialized by this division because the income curve, inf, tank availability/pricing, and recon.
Form a line across the map in A and slowly push forward with mediums, arty, and infantry in B. If you meet resistance you can't crack, stop pushing and swing in from the flanks.
This play style is specialized by this division because the income curve, inf, tank availability/pricing, and recon.
and suddently some 88 in A will kill your advance on every shot :I thx, but no.
Ok, but where do the Guards Armored have an advantage over the scots or canadians with a playstyle like that?
That's more looks like joke than suggestion, so your proposal is to sit on the ass all the first phase and waiting on the german rocket arty, panthers and 2 star fighters lol. And actually if you not going forwards with your tanks you will die soon from enemy infantry which comes for you and from enemy mortars. And as I said before Sextons dont do a lot of damage.
actually canadians and scottish divisions are good for competititve matches because they can roll germans on phase A and then they have ability to build defences on phase B with 17 pdrs etc. Guards armoured sucks on phase A, and on phase B it sucks even more and harder.
Yea that's what I implied. Scots/canadians can do what Guards does but better and are more flexible. It feels as though there is no competitive edge to Guards atm in whatever gamesize or any map.