The Greek oikoumene: an organic and dynamic community of the Greek world (loosely inspired by EU HRE)

[Pilbur]

In view of bringing flavor to the game and fleshing out diplomacy, I think that the wider Greek world would be nicely represented by some form of ad-hoc mechanic (I am using the EU HRE system just as a broad references, of course many differences should be allowed).

I am aware that similar ideas were proposed here and there in the past, but I did not find a recent and organic proposal in this sub forum mirroring this one. I spotted a thread created by crownsteler when checking this sub forum and I found some similarities to my idea (but there related to specific leagues, not an overall community of all Greek states). Also Rhaegar1 suggested some form of HRE-style league mechanic, but keeping it open and generic for every culture. I do not want to steal anyone’s suggestion, if so please feel free to write in the comment and text me.

The main historical inspiration for this proposal:

• The role played by Philip and Alexander as leaders of the “Greek alliance” in the revenge war against Persia.
• The competition among the Diadochi and their successors for prestige and authority in Greece, both for controlling its cities and for boosting recruitment and immigration in their newly conquered Asian kingdoms.
• The rise of Rome, which “liberated” Greece from the Macedonians and later subjugated it.

Main features:

• Membership of the Greek community, with some unique diplomatic options.
  • Arguably all Greek culture nations
  • Some geographical limitation could be discussed (what if someone create a Greek colony in the Baltic Sea?)
  • Possibly some mechanism to allow the admission of foreign powers (Latin/Italic only?) meeting specific criteria.
• Role of Hegemon, the leader of the Greek world.
  • Roughly similar to the EU HRE Emperor: bonuses, additional responsibilities and diplomatic options (for example defending Greek cities from external invaders, funding of temples and other construction project. There is a huge potential for interesting options here!).
  • Role to be held by countries and/or tied to specific characters, also considering the role of Republics (allowing Rome to fill this role if certain criteria are met).
    • The end game for Rome should be dismantling or reforming this “Greek HRE”.
  • Allow this role to be vacant is no one is suitable to lead the Greek world.
• Gameplay effect for smaller State: ability to negotiate with stronger powers, exchange political support for protection or other benefits.
• Role of Diadochi/Hellenistic kingdoms.
  • Included either as members with a particular status or as external bidders for influence, reputation, manpower and immigration (the immigration part will be very important for immersion and hopefully gameplay-wise, if the devs are reworking manpower and tying units to culture).
  • Strategic dilemma for the Hellenistic Kings: directly ruling Greeks cities or granting them some sort of autonomy (inspired by the propaganda of the Antigonids IRL). Different pros and cons for each playstyle.
• Rework of Olympics and potentially an addition of other games/festivals (TBD, necessary to make them interesting and not a nuisance).

I kept the proposal short and simple. OFC it could be vastly expanded or changes, I am more than happy if someone is willing to improve it.

I end my declamation by saying that something like this would unleash many benefits for gameplay (pros and cons of different strategies), immersion and uniqueness of different cultures in the game.

I hope that unifying or conquering Greece will become something more fun that defeating a defensive league and simply annex the provinces.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

Possibly some mechanism to allow the admission of foreign powers (Latin/Italic only?) meeting specific criteria.

why only Latin? better ways to do it:

• allow non-greek countries if they have integrated any greek culture or have Hellenic religion. Most Italian states would qualify by default, while other nations could convert.

Alternatively,

• expand Hellenization events and decisions (the Jewish nations already have them). After finishing them, a country would become eligible for membership.
• Let the Hegemon decide who can join? They could invite barbarians, but it would reduce their reputation among the Greek nations.

 

[Greece stronk]

This seems interesting, but isn't very historical. The Greek world worked somewhat like that from the Persian invasions up to Alexander's death, but not really in the games time period. Maybe a general cultural mechanic could be used to achieve something similar.

 

[Farad]

and also it be pretty awkward with the 1 hellenic pop in anudhapura(india) with them getting some of hellenic events though they might be able to write an exception for that

 

[Pilbur]

Thank you for the support and the feedback, I am happy this proposal made it in the top three of the week.

I wish to clarify some points and address the concerns raised by Greece stronk.

This proposal is not aiming at creating a "permanent league" of all Greek States, at least at the start of the game (such a league could become a reality if specific conditions are met).

At the start the "Greek Community" will operate only as a loose cultural affiliation (for example common modifies, bonus and malus for opinion, specific diplomatic or personal interactions between members).

The role of "Hegemon" should be vacant at the game start. Only a very strong State, meeting conditions to be carefully decided, should be able to fill in that role.

The conditions to become Hegemon could involve something like the the control of strategic territories (such as the historical "fetters of Greece"). Military and economicc power in comparison to rivals, good relationships, bonuses from past donations to temples and cities (evergetism)...it could be nicely tailored to different playstyles.

Becoming Hegemon should be a viable strategy for dominating and eventually annexing the Greek-speaking world. Outright annexation should be an option, but with consequences (unrest, opinion drop, happiness...lot of flexibility here). Again, to give an idea, something similar (but not the same!) to expanding within the EU HRE....different possibilities with different implications.

In sum, I envision a system which:

1. Increase the regional and cultural flavor, both early and mid-game.
2. Give the playert interesting gameplay choices for playing and expanding in the Greek world

 

[Jiben]

A league mechanic is something i hope for eventually but i'm abit unsure if a pan hellenic league is realistic, in my mind there would be many smaller mini hre's around greece like aetolian league/achean league who are seperate but work as mini confederations of their own.

Should it be restricted to greeks? Some other cultures had "leagues" aswell. Etruria for example have a good argument for being split up and put in a collective league, or have tribes able to band together and form tribal confederations etc.