The Great Trek, the Mfecane, and Victoria's South Africa Problem

[luxfelix]

The main issue with development especially during this exact time of industrialization is fear by elites among ancien and dynastic or hybrid regimes regarding how technology impacts power/social dynamics. Even when open to new ideas they are more inclined to slow integration of it over rapid high reward process that can destabilize the social order of the regime.

I won’t say social and moral progress always go hand and hand. Often does but not always and I do think that’s dangerously naïve view to have at times. Look at China now going way of 1984 even with its create throughs in science.

Fascism and communism especially aren’t reactionary. Often authoritarian but not reactionary in the sense it is trying to revert to status quo of pre French Revolution which even fascist said hell no too. Many fascist especially after ww1 become disillusion with ideas of ancien regimes(monarchs, Christianity, and medievalism). After Kaiserreich German nationalist start “dabbling” in neo paganism and start idolizing “Vikings and Saxons” along with tribes that brought down Rome over “Germanic Christian monarchs and crusaders” like they did during imperial regime.

Communism took society that was on way to being Mexico/India(without democracy or hybrid regime like Federation at best) of Europe and forcedly/artificially social engineer population into its “ideas” with very mixed results even they could not see long term effects of. They sadly might not have been worse result for Russia in long run. The tsardom could easily evolve into “Uber” Saudi situation and people think Russian federation was bad imagine surviving Tsardom

The other hole in social and moral progress being tied to technology is capitalist themselves can be apolitical greedy whores and slaves to their own indulgence and wealth. This is reason you will see capitalist be shortsighted and work with monarchs, communist, and fascist if “money is right”.

For example, the US was often making many break throughs in technology at rapid rate and often allowed inventors more freedom. They often did not do this for love of science but possible rewards and advantages innovation.

For example, Ford or one of American billionaires can’t remember exactly who only got into philanthropy due to his son having sickness. Literally the rich did not care to invest in medical sector here over business and engineering until they realized “o shit this can hurt us too. Better fund this stuff more”. Polio was often “rich” or middle class disease here because it could “impact anyone” regardless of money

Good points!

Those are clear counter examples to the idea of ties between social/moral progress and technological advancements.

It is certainly a hope and a bias I have to see historical examples in a larger narrative of good triumphing over evil, resulting in technological rewards from some critical mass of individuals living virtuously (i.e. respecting property rights leading to incentives to produce abundance and innovate).

Maybe it's something more akin to the "invisible hand" at play (laissez faire), and innovation is more likely to occur in places with more economic freedom?

 

[Nibbes]

Good points!

Those are clear counter examples to the idea of ties between social/moral progress and technological advancements.

It is certainly a hope and a bias I have to see historical examples in a larger narrative of good triumphing over evil, resulting in technological rewards from some critical mass of individuals living virtuously (i.e. respecting property rights leading to incentives to produce abundance and innovate).

Maybe it's something more akin to the "invisible hand" at play (laissez faire), and innovation is more likely to occur in places with more economic freedom?

Pretty much your last sentence is spot on but you do have to worry about rapid social shifts or developments that can upset demographics of your population either directly or indirectly.

For example, compare emancipation gradually being weaved out like UK vs more rapid/sudden ones like US civil war. You “freed” slaves but most are largely illiterate and limited on skill set. It also sees large sudden influx of cheap wage labor when they are half population which capitalist would take advantage of. Vs more gradual method where you slowly transition into such things so it’s less socially destabilizing.

laissez-faire or more free democratic society with not overbearing regulations can rapidly advanced with right conditions but can be chaotic and uneven especially more shit the “framework” of society is(resources and circumstances at hand).

Even China now with all its advances are often just copying other people inventions and proving on them at best or learning to mass produce them.
Many Chinese from CCP lack social and networking skills of westerners or even capitalist democratic Asian counterparts like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan because they want brown nose yesmen that obey right word in working for party like cogs in machine not independent and social people who can undermine conformity of regime/single party state.
This is reason most famous individual Chinese figures/personality and billionaires often come from Hong Kong, Singapore, or Taiwan and not mainland as much

 

[luxfelix]

Pretty much your last sentence is spot on but you do have to worry about rapid social shifts or developments that can upset demographics of your population either directly or indirectly.

For example, compare emancipation gradually being weaved out like UK vs more rapid/sudden ones like US civil war. You “freed” slaves but most are largely illiterate and limited on skill set. It also sees large sudden influx of cheap wage labor when they are half population which capitalist would take advantage of. Vs more gradual method where you slowly transition into such things so it’s less socially destabilizing.

laissez-faire or more free democratic society with not overbearing regulations can rapidly advanced with right conditions but can be chaotic and uneven especially more shit the “framework” of society is(resources and circumstances at hand).

Even China now with all its advances are often just copying other people inventions and proving on them at best or learning to mass produce them.
Many Chinese from CCP lack social and networking skills of westerners or even capitalist democratic Asian counterparts like Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan because they want brown nose yesmen that obey right word in working for party like cogs in machine not independent and social people who can undermine conformity of regime/single party state.
This is reason most famous individual Chinese figures/personality and billionaires often come from Hong Kong, Singapore, or Taiwan and not mainland as much

Y'know, I wasn't considering timing/dosage; is something like introducing liberty in bite-size portions versus all at once an aspect the game can include as well, I wonder?

(I think one of the dev diaries describes reactionary movements.)