Billung may still prove useful, for while you have the agreement of the tribe you should also look to the Gods for favour and they would not refuse a sacrifice.
The Great Pillar: Deeds of the Saxon
- Thread starter coz1
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Another AAR by @coz1 ! 
I am pleased, and I love the start.
I have all DLCs but I must admit I never played a tribe in the Charlemagne start. So it will be totally new for me too.
I am pleased, and I love the start.
I have all DLCs but I must admit I never played a tribe in the Charlemagne start. So it will be totally new for me too.
A rough-and-tumble moot, that one. Lothar's handling of Billung may yet have repercussions, but allowing his insolence to go unchecked would have made him look weak in front of his peers, and strained their faith in his leadership.
While too much of a CK2 newbie yet to offer too much sage gameplay advice, Billung did look to be a bit of a dolt, so maybe best out of the way - especially if he moved to claim after that falling out. As for the son - have you had a look to see if he was harbouring much resentment after his father was slapped in the clink?
Uhuhu, I haven't finished reading this but I'm liking it so far!
Pagan Saxony? And the Frankish invasion hasn't happened yet? I want to see that! You have a new sub
Pagan Saxony? And the Frankish invasion hasn't happened yet? I want to see that! You have a new sub
The consensus seems to be that it was a smart move. But even if not, CK2 (and the resulting AARs) is far more fun if you don't always play optimally.
Fb-fb:
And that lasted for a couple of months before it went away. They are coming at some point but I don't know when.
At least with the Wessex game I had given it a spin a time or two before I started. This one, I began cold as ice. It may show.
To all - Thanks for all the great comments. As mentioned, I played a little more after posting this last update and hope to get that out soon enough. Not sure when but hopefully by the weekend. It is early still, but already I can see that playing a pagan in this area is tough. This AAR may not be very long.
Billung was definitely inefficient with a score of 5 compared to what I have now. As my only vassal, firing him would have been a problem so this was surely a stroke of luck.
Yes, and slow going at first. I am used to a little more quick action after the last game.
That's true though I did play a little more after this last bit and looked down for a surprise. Good old Karl was shown as Incapacitated.Make him dig his own hole in the ground
One will have to come to some sort of accomodation with those Franks, one imagines
And that lasted for a couple of months before it went away. They are coming at some point but I don't know when.Is that a thing in game? If so, I have not discovered it yet. His son is no slouch and has an artifact (which I don't and I am terribly jealous!)
Great to see you on board! It's definitely a learning experience.Another AAR by @coz1 !
I am pleased, and I love the start.
I have all DLCs but I must admit I never played a tribe in the Charlemagne start. So it will be totally new for me too.
That's true and I am now wary of these "spend time together" events as so far they have been nothing but trouble. Is it always like this?
I did check on the son after that and he seemed no more or less charmed by me. He holds a tribe himself to the south (and it actually is where Irmensul is - the graphic at the start of each post.) I have eyes there too.
Great to hear! Welcome on board and I hope to keep entertaining you.Uhuhu, I haven't finished reading this but I'm liking it so far!
Pagan Saxony? And the Frankish invasion hasn't happened yet? I want to see that! You have a new sub
Good thing that, because sub-optimally is usually how I play.
At least with the Wessex game I had given it a spin a time or two before I started. This one, I began cold as ice. It may show. To all - Thanks for all the great comments. As mentioned, I played a little more after posting this last update and hope to get that out soon enough. Not sure when but hopefully by the weekend. It is early still, but already I can see that playing a pagan in this area is tough. This AAR may not be very long.
When you play a Viking (with the Old Gods DLC), you can make a sacrifice to Odin when calling for a Blot (it's a decision in game). I don't know/don't remember for the other pagans.
As a Germanic Pagan you can hold a great blot every nine(?) years which yields a chunk of piety/prestige for each human sacrifice (up to four I think) from your dungeons. May be beneficial to hold a blot to celebrate your rule and Billung would likely then be a 'guest of honour'.
Didn't see your reply The Number 9 until after mine but you're spot on with what you're saying.
Fb-fb:
To all - the next scene follows. It covers the rest of my last play session and was...well, you'll see.
Awesome!
Excellent to know. When/if the time is right, I just may do that.
To all - the next scene follows. It covers the rest of my last play session and was...well, you'll see.
770
December 770
“It has been a poor year, Sigbert,” High Chief Lothar stared into the fire of the long hall and spoke to his friend as others slept around them.
It was late and Sigbert knew well why the High Chief lamented so. He poured another cup of mead and handed it over, “I could tell you that it was your fault, but that would not help your wound. Try this instead.”
“I think the Gods did try and tell us when good Wichimann went on to glory,” Lothar accepted it with shame still in his heart.
Sigbert laughed, “Emptying his bowels? What glory lies in that? The Grand Chief can lament, but he cannot be proud of his son.”
“And yet his son is dead...nearly twelve moons. It was a poor omen and we should have seen the signs. I did not listen to my seer and I should have.”
“You should not have put so much faith in Wlencing,” the chief’s man suggested with a smirk, “A fine rider, but not the commander you need.”
Lothar considered the words and offered a soft nod, “I was feeling bold. The son of Billung did not rise against me when I put his father to chains. Amelung would not care. Word came from the south...this great King of the Franks...he is called incapable. I went looking for glory. First to Lenzen in the east and I hear no word back from Luder. And then...”
“And then our Grand Chief Theoderic found greed in his heart,” Sigbert suggested, “Saw the northern tribes against this Haraldr Wartooth and thought to gain glory for himself.”
With a heavy sigh, Lothar remembered it, “We are warriors and proud. I raised our men. We marched north. It was perfect weather and the Gods already smiled upon me. How could I know?”
“When he moved too fast,” Sigbert answered, “And when you chose Wlencing instead of me to help lead.”
“Your jealousy does not ease my shame,” Lothar chided, “And the outcome remains the same.”
Sigbert gave nod, “And you remain too beholden to Theoderic. You did what you could. There by the great winds and saw he was in trouble with the Fyn. You moved as swift as you might but it was not enough. The Grand Chief had already seen to his harm.”
“Our harm!” Lothar shouted not caring if anyone heard him, “We crossed as best we could...made it there in time for the battle! Yet over eight hundred brave Saxons died there and found their glory! What could I do but slink home in defeat. The Gods do not smile upon me! They show me no favor!”
Sigbert pulled long at his drink as he listened and then answered, “And you escaped to fight once more. Unlike Theoderic. He is blamed for the loss and not you. He was the one to feel the sting of captivity...not you.”
“And he is angered,” Lothar suggested with a deep frown.
“As he should be for it was his trouble and not yours,” Sigbert counseled, “You honored your promise. There is glory and pride in that. He lives in defeat, Lothar...not you.”
Lothar drank the rest of his mead and moved to pour another, “He is home again...to his tribe. He stews.”
“He is not the only one,” Sigbert suggested, “Slesvig was a poor adventure and one you should not have needed to assist. You have done favor to Unwad Unwanid of the Westphalia. He stews as well. I do not know why you do not join his cause.”
Lothar turned only slightly with a narrowed brow, “To fight a man strong and full with your seax...that is honorable. To show great counsel with one breath and then with the other seek to undermine...to steal what is not his...that is dishonor. High Chief Unwan is dishonorable.”
“And unsatisfied with our Grand Chief,” Sigbert followed.
“Our great Saxon tribe does not win if we fight each other,” Lothar looked back to the flames, “For there is another. My seer tells me now...the Gods do smile on this southern King. He is incapable no more. We are shamed...we are in disorder...we do not please the Gods.”
Sigbert allowed a grin, “Yet this Karl of the Franks has but one God. How can that be pleasing?”
“I know not,” Lothar replied with great worry, “I am told that there is disorder in his house as well, but someday...he will come. If this is how we fight, Sigbert? We cannot win.”
* * *
Author's Notes:
Still testing out some features here and this first attempt at warfare with the new regime was not an auspicious start. Bad luck or poor play, I don't know, but my desire to highlight it along with some few other nuggets. Like Karl being "incapable" and then...not. And Karloman is not doing well, it seems.
A few oddities or questions -
- I cannot seem to nominate anyone as successor to the Grand Chiefdom of Saxony. Any idea why?
- What is the worth of "swaying" someone?
- Should I keep the de facto jobs assigned to my council or change them up as I did with Chancellor Luder when I sent him to fabricate claims on Lenzen?
- And how is this one tribe from the north (sorry, forgot to get their name) doing so well in Slesvig, etc. and the Grand Chief and I did not?
Hope to get some more play time in soon, but this was an educational session. A good year if poor in outcome.
Swaying is an action whereby you start to get a series of events that (hopefully) end up making that person like you more.
All in all it seems to be a somewhat nervous time.
All in all it seems to be a somewhat nervous time.
I’ve found the most likely reason for tribes having way more troops and them doing better than expected is usually:
1. Depending their nature, they’ve used either prestige or piety to us a tribal host.
2. Then, having acquired the host, the composition is stronger than the predominantly light tribal demesne levies mustered against them.
3. Or sometimes, in the scissors-paper-rock of the battle deployments, then happen to muster a deathstack in the right place, and the battle is already over by the time in this case you arrived later.
If that was what you were asking about
1. Depending their nature, they’ve used either prestige or piety to us a tribal host.
2. Then, having acquired the host, the composition is stronger than the predominantly light tribal demesne levies mustered against them.
3. Or sometimes, in the scissors-paper-rock of the battle deployments, then happen to muster a deathstack in the right place, and the battle is already over by the time in this case you arrived later.
If that was what you were asking about
A nasty defeat, though thankfully Theoderic has borne the brunt of the damage. Still, a costly misadventure, and one that will leave a bad taste in the mouths of all those involved for some time to come, no doubt.
I'm getting a distinct feeling of building tension in Saxony, waiting for release -- like a drawn bowstring, or a threatening storm cloud on the horizon promising a harrowing downpour.
As for the questions:
The option should be under the "Laws" tab, if you haven't already looked there. Certain succession laws may only have certain candidates available; I'm still adjusting somewhat to the changes from the most recent update myself in some regards, and it's been a while since I've played vanilla.
It's basically like having a second, somewhat less reliable Chancellor on hand -- useful if the latter is otherwise occupied, but I admit I haven't really used it much myself.
That rather depends on what you're planning to do at any given moment, which is of course very context-specific. If you don't have anything particular in mind, the default jobs are useful enough for keeping your commanders trained, your vassals happy, your provinces prosperous, etc.
@Bullfilter has covered most of the important points, to which I can only really add two observations:
I'm getting a distinct feeling of building tension in Saxony, waiting for release -- like a drawn bowstring, or a threatening storm cloud on the horizon promising a harrowing downpour.
As for the questions:
The option should be under the "Laws" tab, if you haven't already looked there. Certain succession laws may only have certain candidates available; I'm still adjusting somewhat to the changes from the most recent update myself in some regards, and it's been a while since I've played vanilla.
It's basically like having a second, somewhat less reliable Chancellor on hand -- useful if the latter is otherwise occupied, but I admit I haven't really used it much myself.
That rather depends on what you're planning to do at any given moment, which is of course very context-specific. If you don't have anything particular in mind, the default jobs are useful enough for keeping your commanders trained, your vassals happy, your provinces prosperous, etc.
@Bullfilter has covered most of the important points, to which I can only really add two observations:
- Attacking across a major water crossing probably didn't help. The penalty the attacker gets from that can sometimes make things a little dicey, all other factors being equal.
- I've noticed with the most recent update that your flank commanders' Martial scores seem to matter a lot more, meaning that mere numerical superiority isn't quite as much of a reliable indicator of a battle's outcome as it used to be.
Fb-fb:
On nominating successor to the Grand Chiefdom:
On swaying:
On council jobs:
On the war:
And - is "tribal host" like mercenaries or something else? Another thing that I have yet to suss out in the mechanic.
I hope this does not turn into The Crusades, Part Deux (tm) where everyone is out for themselves to the detriment of the larger whole, but then again, we are in pagan Saxony so who the hell knows?
To all - Great answers and thanks! More to come, surely.
On nominating successor to the Grand Chiefdom:
I've looked there and indeed, there is no one to select which seems odd. Should I not be able to select at least one of the High Chiefs?
On swaying:
That makes sense. It has led to some less than fun events, perhaps, but I will keep messing with it and see what happens.
On council jobs:
Thanks. It's a new dynamic now that I am using DLCs and I am used to a more active hand in the council work. It is early still so I'm not sure if I like this new use of them or not. Makes sense though.
On the war:
I’ve found the most likely reason for tribes having way more troops and them doing better than expected is usually:
1. Depending their nature, they’ve used either prestige or piety to us a tribal host.
2. Then, having acquired the host, the composition is stronger than the predominantly light tribal demesne levies mustered against them.
3. Or sometimes, in the scissors-paper-rock of the battle deployments, then happen to muster a deathstack in the right place, and the battle is already over by the time in this case you arrived later.
If that was what you were asking about
Both good things to know going forward. I looked back and realized that it was stupid to go across the water like that. I got used to doing it in the previous vanilla game and old habits die hard. Now that I have the DLCs set to "force march" or whatever it is called where I cannot change after setting their destination, I could no nothing but watch in horror as my army met defeat. I thought it might be close and coming in late might mean the difference, but as we can see - no.
And - is "tribal host" like mercenaries or something else? Another thing that I have yet to suss out in the mechanic.
If his ability to come back from incapacity is that great, what else can this man do?!
I'm getting that feeling myself and I'm the player.
I hope this does not turn into The Crusades, Part Deux (tm) where everyone is out for themselves to the detriment of the larger whole, but then again, we are in pagan Saxony so who the hell knows?To all - Great answers and thanks! More to come, surely.
It should be a decision in the Intrigue tab. When you're at war, you can spend Prestige to raise a tribal host, somewhere around 2500 men a pop if I recall correctly (at the cost of ~500 Prestige each). Defensive pagans likewise have a decision where, if they're fighting a defensive war against an infidel, they can spend Piety on bands of Holy Warriors. (Germanic is classed as "offensive pagan," so they don't have access to that one.)
I will check again, but I'm still not seeing it. God knows I need it.
Bit of spoiler but...
I need it. Really need it.