The great official AI thread

[stjern]

Just wanted to warn people that there is a massive air deployment ai bug, it happens randomly to a save and that's why you can sometimes have a game with enemy using airplanes properly, especially if you don't reload. When the bug happens the ai will only do strategic bombings and no air superiority no matter how many air superiority wings the ai "requests". I think this bug can fix itself but only if the theatre changes completely.

This is why some people are reporting no air opposition from the ai. I was able to recreate it several times when doing ai tests and observing JAP vs chi.

 

[hillcf]

I have used a large number of Expeditionary Forces in my armies and they are a quick way to grow an army when I am low on supply for new equipment and people.

But I have seen cases where large offers appear, like Yugoslavia and Spain each offering 17 divisions. These are usually scattered across Europe and in one case one of the divisions was actually in combat.

The other issue was from Canada, which was out of manpower and could not manage to reinforce my current Canadian expeditionary forces, still offering me new ones.

So, what is the way that the AI decides to offer new units?

 

[_Black Templar_]

Pleas starting fixing the AI Produkiont!!!!

1.UdSSR all time delet all tankdevision to get more resorces to build useless Trucks!!!
moste Nation do same...

2. the AI Division plans are terrible you allwo them only to add same tanks and (what a surprice, you love them) Motorised.
for infanterie its the same for all nations 7 infanterie 2 artellery.

3. allow AA, TD, AA-tanks, heavy tanks and selfpropelled guns for the Division plans! (reduce the produktioncost of them for exemple the half so they are more usefull)

4. allow AI to build synthetic oil

STOP IGNORING THIS PROBLEM!

give AI produktion a percentage how there Army should look like:
10-20% of the army schould be including tanks in Divisionplan (including light, medium, heavy, AA-tanks, selfpropelled guns, tankdestoyers) use (Diverent tanks in plan!) supporting with Infanterie, Motorised, Mech and mobil Rockedartellery.
10-15% of army maximum Motorised Division (including Mechanizied and mobil Rockedartellery) when more of Motorised only Devision, than they lose to many Trucks and all time same happens Nation collaps by not being able to reproduce all this trucks and never build tanks, also add self propelled tanks AA-tanks and Tankdestroyers light and medium tanks in less numbers to this divisions.
5-10% of army special units like mounteneers, parachutist, marines.
the rest Infanterie-Divisions.

(but make diverent variants of Divisionplans for the Nations and not all the same, for exempel japan have very big Division but with less artellery)

also you can change the max speed of solid artellerie/pack/Flack up to 8-10km so they can be used in motoriesed/tank Divisions too.

 

[_Black Templar_]

Folowing Files are terrible bugged and need to be Fixed:


what is wrong:

light_armor_default_GER = {
target_width = 19.9 All Division are only allowed to be max 19,9 width ?
width_weight = 0.1
column_swap_factor = 0.1

stat_weights = {
0.00 #-- default_morale
1.10 #-- defense
1.10 #-- breakthrough
0.60 #-- hardness
2.00 #-- soft_attack
0.00 #-- hard_attack
0.10 #-- recon
0.01 #-- entrenchment
0.10 #-- initiative
0.01 #-- casualty_trickleback
-0.05 #-- supply_consumption_factor
-0.01 #-- supply_consumption
0.00 #-- suppression
0.00 #-- suppression_factor
0.01 #-- experience_loss_factor
#-- Air Values
0.02 #-- air_attack
#-- Common Values
30.00 #-- max_organisation
0.80 #-- max_strength
0.00 #-- build_cost_ic
2.0 #-- maximum_speed
0.20 #-- armor_value
0.05 #-- ap_attack
0.10 #-- reliability
0.10 #-- reliability_factor
0.00 #-- weight
}

target_template = {
weight = 0.9
match_value = 400.0

support = {
engineer = 1
recon = 1
artillery = 1
}

regiments = {
light_armor = 5 Target for IA is to get 300 tanks in a light devision.... sorry thats *****. to
motorized = 4 they shoot not put more tanks in they should try reduce the number of tanks minimum to half
}
}

Real devisions UdSSR had at 1939 around 270 light tanks BT/T-26 in a Division and reduce the number of tanks and adding Motorised brigads.
Tank-Korpus consist 1942 out of 176 Tanks (70x T60 or T70, 98x T-34, 8x KV )

Same in Germany half the number of tanks and double the number of Motorized Infanterie after Poland.

it makes no sence to give the AI same build how are unrealistic and not posible to build

Tankdestroyers and AA-tanks are missing!

allowed_types = {
light_armor
motorized
engineer
recon
artillery
}

replace_at_match = 0.4
replace_with = medium_armor_default_GER
target_min_match = 0.2
}


heavy_armor_default_GER = {
target_width = 19.9
width_weight = 3.0
column_swap_factor = 0.1

stat_weights = {
0.00 #-- default_morale
1.10 #-- defense
1.10 #-- breakthrough
0.60 #-- hardness
2.00 #-- soft_attack
0.00 #-- hard_attack
0.10 #-- recon
0.01 #-- entrenchment
0.10 #-- initiative
0.01 #-- casualty_trickleback
-0.05 #-- supply_consumption_factor
-0.01 #-- supply_consumption
0.00 #-- suppression
0.00 #-- suppression_factor
0.01 #-- experience_loss_factor
#-- Air Values
0.02 #-- air_attack
#-- Common Values
10.00 #-- max_organisation
0.80 #-- max_strength
0.00 #-- build_cost_ic
0.0 #-- maximum_speed
0.20 #-- armor_value
0.05 #-- ap_attack
0.10 #-- reliability
0.10 #-- reliability_factor
0.00 #-- weight
}

target_template = {
weight = 0.5
match_value = 100.0

support = {
engineer = 1
recon = 1
logistics_company = 1
maintenance_company = 1
}

regiments = {
heavy_armor = 6 to build 1 Division of this Setup you need years.... AI can not build samething like that
infantry = 3
}
}

UdSSr havy-Tank Brigade: 136x T-28/T-35
German use 45x Tigers

Tankdestroyers and AA-tanks are missing!
allowed_types = {
modern_armor
heavy_armor

motorized
mechanized

#Cheaper but slower might be worth considering
infantry
artillery_brigade
rocket_artillery_brigade Its not possible to Add samething like that because of max widh of 20

motorized_rocket_brigade

engineer
recon
signal_company
maintenance_company
logistics_company

anti_tank
military_police
artillery
anti_air
rocket_artillery
}

replace_at_match = 0.4
replace_with = modern_armor_default_GER
target_min_match = 0.2
}

medium_armor_default_GER = {
target_width = 19.9
width_weight = 3.0
column_swap_factor = 0.1

stat_weights = {
0.00 #-- default_morale
1.10 #-- defense
1.10 #-- breakthrough
1.60 #-- hardness
1.00 #-- soft_attack
2.00 #-- hard_attack
0.10 #-- recon
0.01 #-- entrenchment
0.10 #-- initiative
0.01 #-- casualty_trickleback
-0.05 #-- supply_consumption_factor
-0.01 #-- supply_consumption
0.00 #-- suppression
0.00 #-- suppression_factor
0.01 #-- experience_loss_factor
#-- Air Values
0.02 #-- air_attack
#-- Common Values
50.00 #-- max_organisation
0.80 #-- max_strength
0.00 #-- build_cost_ic
1.0 #-- maximum_speed
10.0 #-- armor_value
0.05 #-- ap_attack
0.10 #-- reliability
0.10 #-- reliability_factor
0.00 #-- weight
}


target_template = {
weight = 0.9
match_value = 700.0

support = {
engineer = 1
recon = 1
maintenance_company = 1
logistics_company = 1
}

regiments = {
medium_armor = 6 Unrealistic and AI NEVER can build such units!!!!
motorized = 5
}
}

allowed_types = {
modern_armor
medium_armor
motorized
mechanized
infantry

motorized_rocket_brigade

engineer
recon
signal_company
maintenance_company
logistics_company

anti_tank
military_police
artillery
anti_air
rocket_artillery
}

replace_at_match = 0.75
replace_with = modern_armor_default_GER
target_min_match = 0.3
}


modern_armor_default_GER = {
target_width = 19.9
width_weight = 3.0
column_swap_factor = 0.1

stat_weights = {
0.00 #-- default_morale
1.10 #-- defense
1.10 #-- breakthrough
0.60 #-- hardness
2.00 #-- soft_attack
0.00 #-- hard_attack
0.10 #-- recon
0.01 #-- entrenchment
0.10 #-- initiative
0.01 #-- casualty_trickleback
-0.05 #-- supply_consumption_factor
-0.01 #-- supply_consumption
0.00 #-- suppression
0.00 #-- suppression_factor
0.01 #-- experience_loss_factor
#-- Air Values
0.02 #-- air_attack
#-- Common Values
50.00 #-- max_organisation
0.80 #-- max_strength
0.00 #-- build_cost_ic
10.0 #-- maximum_speed
0.20 #-- armor_value
0.05 #-- ap_attack
0.10 #-- reliability
0.10 #-- reliability_factor
0.00 #-- weight
}

target_template = {
weight = 0.9
match_value = 500.0

support = {
engineer = 1
recon = 1
maintenance_company = 1
logistics_company = 1
}

regiments = {
modern_armor = 3
mechanized = 3
medium_sp_artillery_brigade = 2
super_heavy_armor = 1
}
}


allowed_types = {
modern_armor
motorized
mechanized
motorized_rocket_brigade
medium_sp_artillery_brigade
engineer
recon
signal_company
maintenance_company
logistics_company

anti_tank
military_police
artillery
anti_air
rocket_artillery
}
}




infantry_default_GER = {
target_width = 19.9
width_weight = 0.1
column_swap_factor = 0.5

stat_weights = {
0.00 #-- default_morale
0.00 #-- defense
1.00 #-- breakthrough
0.00 #-- hardness
4.00 #-- soft_attack
0.00 #-- hard_attack
0.00 #-- recon
1.00 #-- entrenchment
0.00 #-- initiative
0.00 #-- casualty_trickleback
0.00 #-- supply_consumption_factor
0.00 #-- supply_consumption
0.00 #-- suppression
0.00 #-- suppression_factor
0.00 #-- experience_loss_factor
#-- Air Values
0.00 #-- air_attack
#-- Common Values
0.60 #-- max_organisation
0.40 #-- max_strength
0.00 #-- build_cost_ic
0.00 #-- maximum_speed
0.00 #-- armor_value
0.20 #-- ap_attack
0.00 #-- reliability
0.00 #-- reliability_factor
0.00 #-- weight
}

target_template = {
weight = 0.9
match_value = 300.0

support = {
engineer = 1
recon = 1
field_hospital = 1
anti_tank = 1
artillery = 1
}

regiments = {
infantry = 7 Schould be 9 (3x Regiments)
artillery_brigade = 2 Pack is also needet
}
}

allowed_types = {
infantry
engineer
recon
signal_company
field_hospital
logistics_company
anti_tank
military_police
artillery
# anti_air
rocket_artillery
anti_tank_brigade
artillery_brigade
rocket_artillery_brigade
# light_tank_destroyer_brigade
# medium_tank_destroyer_brigade reson why german dont have StugIII
}
}


mountaineers_default_GER = {
target_width = 19.9
width_weight = 3
column_swap_factor = 0.2

stat_weights = {
0 #-- default_morale
1 #-- defense
1 #-- breakthrough
0 #-- hardness
2 #-- soft_attack
0 #-- hard_attack
0 #-- recon
0 #-- entrenchment
0 #-- initiative
0 #-- casualty_trickleback
0 #-- supply_consumption_factor
0 #-- supply_consumption
0 #-- suppression
0 #-- suppression_factor
0 #-- experience_loss_factor
#-- Air Values
0 #-- air_attack
#-- Common Values
1 #-- max_organisation
1 #-- max_strength
-0.1 #-- build_cost_ic
0 #-- maximum_speed
0 #-- armor_value
0 #-- ap_attack
0 #-- reliability
0 #-- reliability_factor
0 #-- weight
}

target_template = {
weight = 0.5
match_value = 300.0

support = {
engineer = 1
artillery = 1
anti_tank = 1
logistics_company = 1
}

regiments = {
mountaineers = 8
artillery_brigade = 2
}
}

allowed_types = {
mountaineers
artillery
recon
signal_company
field_hospital
logistics_company
anti_tank
}
}



marine_default_GER = {
target_width = 19.9
width_weight = 0.1
column_swap_factor = 0.1

stat_weights = {
0.00 #-- default_morale
0.00 #-- defense
1.00 #-- breakthrough
0.05 #-- hardness
3.00 #-- soft_attack
0.01 #-- hard_attack
0.00 #-- recon
2.20 #-- entrenchment
0.00 #-- initiative
0.00 #-- casualty_trickleback
-0.1 #-- supply_consumption_factor
-0.1 #-- supply_consumption
0.00 #-- suppression
0.00 #-- suppression_factor
0.00 #-- experience_loss_factor
#-- Air Values
0.00 #-- air_attack
#-- Common Values
0.60 #-- max_organisation
0.40 #-- max_strength
-0.1 #-- build_cost_ic
0.00 #-- maximum_speed
0.05 #-- armor_value
0.00 #-- ap_attack
0.00 #-- reliability
0.00 #-- reliability_factor
-0.2 #-- weight
}

target_template = {
weight = 0.9
match_value = 200.0

support = {
recon = 1
logistics_company = 1
}

regiments = {
marine = 9
}
}


allowed_types = {
marine
engineer
logistics_company
}
}


paratrooper_default_GER = {
target_width = 9.9
width_weight = 3.0
column_swap_factor = 0.1

stat_weights = {
0.20 #-- default_morale
1.00 #-- defense
0.20 #-- breakthrough
0.00 #-- hardness
2.00 #-- soft_attack
0.10 #-- hard_attack
0.05 #-- recon
0.20 #-- entrenchment
0.20 #-- initiative
0.05 #-- casualty_trickleback
-1.0 #-- supply_consumption_factor
-1.0 #-- supply_consumption
0.01 #-- suppression
0.01 #-- suppression_factor
0.05 #-- experience_loss_factor
#-- Air Values
0.01 #-- air_attack
#-- Common Values
0.6 #-- max_organisation
0.4 #-- max_strength
-0.1 #-- build_cost_ic
0.00 #-- maximum_speed
0.00 #-- armor_value
0.20 #-- ap_attack
0.00 #-- reliability
0.00 #-- reliability_factor
-1.0 #-- weight
}

target_template = {
weight = 0.9
match_value = 200.0

support = {
engineer = 1
artillery = 1
anti_tank = 1
}

regiments = {
paratrooper= 5
}
}

allowed_types = {
paratrooper
engineer
recon
signal_company
field_hospital
logistics_company
anti_tank
military_police
artillery
anti_air
rocket_artillery
}
}

cavalry_default_GER = {
target_width = 12.0
width_weight = 4.0
column_swap_factor = 1.0 Realy? spamming like hell?

stat_weights = {
0.0 #-- default_morale
0.0 #-- defense
0.0 #-- breakthrough
0.0 #-- hardness
0.0 #-- soft_attack
0.0 #-- hard_attack
0.0 #-- recon
0.0 #-- entrenchment
0.0 #-- initiative
0.0 #-- casualty_trickleback
0.0 #-- supply_consumption_factor
0.0 #-- supply_consumption
1.0 #-- suppression
1.0 #-- suppression_factor
0.0 #-- experience_loss_factor
#-- Air Values
0.0 #-- air_attack
#-- Common Values
0.0 #-- max_organisation
0.0 #-- max_strength
0.0 #-- build_cost_ic
0.0 #-- maximum_speed
0.0 #-- armor_value
0.0 #-- ap_attack
0.0 #-- reliability
0.0 #-- reliability_factor
0.0 #-- weight
}

target_template = {
weight = 0.9
match_value = 10.0

support = {
military_police = 1
}

regiments = {
cavalry = 4
}
}

allowed_types = {
# cavalry
# motorized
# mechanized
military_police
# engineer
# recon
# signal_company
}

replace_at_match = 0.1 Reason why no suppression units get builded!
replace_with = motorized_default_GER
target_min_match = 0.1
}

motorized_default_GER = {
target_width = 19.9
width_weight = 0.1
column_swap_factor = 1.0 Realy? spamming like hell? thats the reason why all nation get so easy fight down. Trucks need
a lot of Oil and can easy destroyed and no Nation have the industry or Oil to compensate (yes even USA)

Germany had till at jun 1940, 114 Infanterie-Divisions 10 Tank-Division, 1 Mounteneer, and 6 Motorized Divisions. with this Germany try to get 20-50 and need neerly the complet pruduktion to build that many Trucks. but same problem have all Nations.

stat_weights = {
0.00 #-- default_morale
0.00 #-- defense
1.00 #-- breakthrough
0.00 #-- hardness
4.00 #-- soft_attack
0.00 #-- hard_attack
0.00 #-- recon
1.00 #-- entrenchment
0.00 #-- initiative
0.00 #-- casualty_trickleback
0.00 #-- supply_consumption_factor
0.00 #-- supply_consumption
0.00 #-- suppression
0.00 #-- suppression_factor
0.00 #-- experience_loss_factor
#-- Air Values
0.00 #-- air_attack
#-- Common Values
20.0 #-- max_organisation
0.40 #-- max_strength
0.00 #-- build_cost_ic
0.00 #-- maximum_speed
0.00 #-- armor_value
0.10 #-- ap_attack
0.00 #-- reliability
0.00 #-- reliability_factor
0.00 #-- weight
}

target_template = {
weight = 0.9
match_value = 400.0

support = {
engineer = 1
artillery = 1
anti_tank = 1
maintenance_company = 1
}

regiments = {
motorized = 8 6 (2x Regiments) would be better for AI to produce and hold in battle
medium_sp_artillery_brigade = 3 Tankdestroyers and AA-tanks are missing!
}
}

allowed_types = {
motorized
mechanized
motorized_rocket_brigade
medium_sp_artillery_brigade
engineer
recon
signal_company
maintenance_company
field_hospital
logistics_company
anti_tank
military_police
artillery
anti_air
rocket_artillery
}

replace_at_match = 0.5
replace_with = medium_armor_default_GER
target_min_match = 0.3
}


mechanized_default_GER = {
target_width = 19.9
width_weight = 0.1
column_swap_factor = 1.0 Realy? spamming like hell?

stat_weights = {
0.00 #-- default_morale
0.00 #-- defense
1.00 #-- breakthrough
0.00 #-- hardness
4.00 #-- soft_attack
0.00 #-- hard_attack
0.00 #-- recon
1.00 #-- entrenchment
0.00 #-- initiative
0.00 #-- casualty_trickleback
0.00 #-- supply_consumption_factor
0.00 #-- supply_consumption
0.00 #-- suppression
0.00 #-- suppression_factor
0.00 #-- experience_loss_factor
#-- Air Values
0.00 #-- air_attack
#-- Common Values
20.0 #-- max_organisation
0.40 #-- max_strength
0.00 #-- build_cost_ic
0.00 #-- maximum_speed
0.00 #-- armor_value
0.20 #-- ap_attack
0.00 #-- reliability
0.00 #-- reliability_factor
0.00 #-- weight
}

target_template = {
weight = 0.9
match_value = 400.0

support = {
engineer = 1
artillery = 1
anti_tank = 1
maintenance_company = 1
logistics_company = 1
}

regiments = {
mechanized = 7
medium_sp_artillery_brigade = 1
medium_tank_destroyer_brigade = 1
}
}

allowed_types = {
mechanized
motorized_rocket_brigade

engineer
recon
signal_company
maintenance_company
medium_sp_artillery_brigade
medium_tank_destroyer_brigade
field_hospital
logistics_company
anti_tank
military_police
artillery
anti_air
rocket_artillery
}
}




# REGIMENTS:
#infantry
#light_armor
#super_heavy_armor
#modern_armor
#heavy_armor
#medium_armor
#light_armor
#anti_tank
#cavalry
#motorized
#mechanized
#marine
#mountaineers
#paratrooper
#rocket_artillery
#light_tank_destroyer
#anti_air
#artillery

# SUPPORT:
#engineer
#recon
#signal_company
#maintenance_company
#anti_tank_brigade
#anti_air_brigade
#artillery_brigade
#field_hospital
#logistics_company
#military_police
#light_sp_anti_air_brigade
#light_sp_artillery_brigade

but: therer are much more problems here in this file, it feels like a pre-Alpha.



PROBLEM : AI can not produce ather things than Trucks over Time because it need to spam that and when war beginns it lose so much trucks that nothing else than trucks, infanterie wapoins and Artellerie can build. This need to Balanced 5-10% motorized, 10-20% Tanks for exemple not 150 infanterie and 80 Moroiezed Divisions thats the reason why nation all time Collabs so fast and easy.

THIS IS THE MAINPROBLEM WHY AI PERFORMES SO TERRIBLE BAD!
not because of bad traiding or useless invasions they are easy to destroy only when atacking it and complet Army Collabs becaus no Tanks can build, AI have to build Trucks....

 

[_Black Templar_]

Exemple:

 

[Meglok]

Here are two screenshots that illustrate the ai's issue with convoy allocation priorities that leaves divisions stranded in the ocean and dying of attrition.

In shot #1 you can see two divisions stuck "unable to find a valid path to target" and dying of attrition. If it was just 2 divisions it would not be an issue, but it literally dozens from all the ai Allied nations.

In shot #2 you can see that the UK has 1853 convoys, 75 locked up with invasion plans, 65 transferring troops, and 1713 of a required 668 allocated to supply and resource movement. If this is correct the tool tip shows the ai has almost 3 times what is needed allocated to supply and resource movement.

As several recent bug reports have stated, this is a game breaker in single player games. @SteelVolt Hopefully this is being addressed in 1.3.3 I am using Expert Ai 2.0 which actually tries to make the ai make more convoys than vanilla to get around this issue, to no avail.

 

[Dalwin]

Here are two screenshots that illustrate the ai's issue with convoy allocation priorities that leaves divisions stranded in the ocean and dying of attrition.

View attachment 241007 View attachment 241008

In shot #1 you can see two divisions stuck "unable to find a valid path to target" and dying of attrition. If it was just 2 divisions it would not be an issue, but it literally dozens from all the ai Allied nations.

In shot #2 you can see that the UK has 1853 convoys, 75 locked up with invasion plans, 65 transferring troops, and 1713 of a required 668 allocated to supply and resource movement. If this is correct the tool tip shows the ai has almost 3 times what is needed allocated to supply and resource movement.

As several recent bug reports have stated, this is a game breaker in single player games. @SteelVolt Hopefully this is being addressed in 1.3.3 I am using Expert Ai 2.0 which actually tries to make the ai make more convoys than vanilla to get around this issue, to no avail.

I have to disagree with you. It is not the convoy count which causes the stranding. The convoys carrying those units are already allocated to them and sinking those convoys also sinks the units.

What causes the stranding is that the AI will not reroute transports when their destination port falls to the enemy. This is easily tested if you pay attention and see some port taken for a few days by some AI invasion (or you could do this yourself). After the Germans recapture the port all the AI troops headed to it will get stuck. If you take the port again those units resume their voyage. I have tested this on more than one occasion. It is such a big problem that I have trouble even playing the game any more, regardless of what mods you use, this particular issue will neuter the Americans.

If you were to increase the American convoy count that would if anything mainly allow them to strand even more units and take more attrition from doing so. The lack of convoys is responsible for their inability to launch new invasions, however.

 

[Napoleonetniet]

im all with you except i have this game where uk has 0/0 of assigned/needed for troop transfers, and a ton of units stuck on the seas (i even let the game run 2x24hrs to be sure the tooltips get updated)

so i think there has to be some way they actually 'lose' the transports they have.. the only situation that i can imagine is the one you posted about, the re-routing when destination becomes unviable.

my guess would be .. When the current destination gets invalid, they stop (order cancelled), and release their transports up for grabs into the 'available' pool. The convoys are badly needed for something like trade or hauling resources from colonies (maybe higher prio ?) and are ninjad for that before they get a chance to be reassigned to this unit. Unit can't set new order (no convoys), leaving the unit 'stuck' until it gets enough convoys available to get to the nearest friendly port.

because when i give the UK 2000 convoys through console, they all start moving again at once, new destination: nearest friendly - this suggests all they needed was convoys to be available for them.
edit: just thought of doing it again but setting human_ai aswell just in case it matters -> same result.

 

[Dalwin]

im all with you except i have this game where uk has 0/0 of assigned/needed for troop transfers, and a ton of units stuck on the seas (i even let the game run 2x24hrs to be sure the tooltips get updated)

so i think there has to be some way they actually 'lose' the transports they have.. the only situation that i can imagine is the one you came up with of the re-routing when destination becomes unviable.
my guess would be .. they release their transports up for grabs into the 'available' pool when the current destination gets invalid, the convoys are badly needed for something like trade maybe higher prio(??) and are ninjad for that before they get a chance to be reassigned to this unit, leaving the unit 'stuck' until it gets enough convoys available to get to the nearest friendly port.

because when i give the UK 2000 convoys through console, they all start moving again, new destination: nearest friendly - this suggests all they needed was convoys to be available for them.
edit: just thought of doing it again but setting humanai aswell just in case it matters

That is interesting. By the same token when I captured the destination port for a bunch of stranded units, they all started moving again. Perhaps you using the console to assign convoys forced the AI to reconsider its situation. It should be able to reroute units to alternate destinations without issue since this is done automatically for player units. It is this aspect which I believe is broken.

I have on several occasions, recently as both the Japanese and Russians in MP, run myself down to zero available convoys. In both cases all units already at sea kept moving and invasions which I had previously planned were also able to launch (since those convoys are reserved at the start of the invasion planning). What running short of convoys does to the player is stop new units from embarking for transport; new invasions from being planned, and reduces the amount of goods shipped by some of your supply or resource routes.

Clearly one of us is wrong though both theories are reasonable. The thing upon which we certainly agree is that there is a serious problem here and it needs to be addressed.

 

[Meglok]

@Dalwin @Napoleonetniet
Thought about what you both replied. The "losing the targeted debarkation port" might be part of the problem, but it is not the entire issue. I tagged over and reassigned ports. Tagged back, still stuck. Tagging does not reset the ai, toggling the ai off and on does not seem to help, logging and reloading does not help now (thought it used to). And as Napoleonetniet said, if you console add hordes of convoys to ENG the issue appears to go away. So where are the almost 2000 convoys that ENG has?

I did some comparing to my player run USA and the ai run ENG and found something very interesting when looking at the hordes of trade and resource convoys ENG has locked up, as shown by the following screen shots:

The USA is importing resources from ENG and if you look at the Import Transfers you can see the convoys allocated to preform the transfers. Above that you can see convoys allocated to convoy resource Export Transfers to foreign destinations?

Now looking at ENG, you see a reciprocal amount of convoys assigned to import the same resources from the USA and to export the same resources to the USA.

Both the USA and ENG are using the same number of convoys to import and export the same resources over a single resource convoy transfer? Why? It is my understanding that the country importing is responsible for providing the convoys. Am I missing something here? Don't think this is a bad tool tip. And logically it makes no sense for both nations to have to assign convoys to move the same resources between the two nations.

@Secret Master Do you have any input on this? Would really love to see some input from @podcat on this issue.

 

[Dalwin]

@Dalwin @Napoleonetniet
Thought about what you both replied. The "losing the targeted debarkation port" might be part of the problem, but it is not the entire issue. I tagged over and reassigned ports. Tagged back, still stuck. Tagging does not reset the ai, toggling the ai off and on does not seem to help, logging and reloading does not help now (thought it used to). And as Napoleonetniet said, if you console add hordes of convoys to ENG the issue appears to go away. So where are the almost 2000 convoys that ENG has?

I did some comparing to my player run USA and the ai run ENG and found something very interesting when looking at the hordes of trade and resource convoys ENG has locked up, as shown by the following screen shots:

View attachment 241056
The USA is importing resources from ENG and if you look at the Import Transfers you can see the convoys allocated to preform the transfers. Above that you can see convoys allocated to convoy resource Export Transfers to foreign destinations?

View attachment 241057

Now looking at ENG, you see a reciprocal amount of convoys assigned to import the same resources from the USA and to export the same resources to the USA.

Both the USA and ENG are using the same number of convoys to import and export the same resources over a single resource convoy transfer? Why? It is my understanding that the country importing is responsible for providing the convoys. Am I missing something here? Don't think this is a bad tool tip. And logically it makes no sense for both nations to have to assign convoys to move the same resources between the two nations.

@Secret Master Do you have any input on this? Would really love to see some input from @podcat on this issue.

That is interesting indeed. I also believed that only import used convoys not export. So we are saying (using AI America as in my example of units getting stuck) that they have enough convoys when they embark but once UK or someone else buys a bunch of oil from them they zero out? Furthermore when they have insufficient convoys rather than supply or trade suffering the shortage it is troops at sea who do?? This is messed up indeed.

 

[Meglok]

That is interesting indeed. I also believed that only import used convoys not export. So we are saying (using AI America as in my example of units getting stuck) that they have enough convoys when they embark but once UK or someone else buys a bunch of oil from them they zero out? Furthermore when they have insufficient convoys rather than supply or trade suffering the shortage it is troops at sea who do?? This is messed up indeed.

That is what I think we are seeing, and it would explain why divisions stop moving If the convoy priority protocols give trade a higher priority than troop movement. A trade is made, both the sending and receiving countries duplicate assigning convoys to the route, and if needed the convoy allocation routine steals convoys from troops moving at sea. Unfortunately there has been no response from PDS here or in the latest 1.3.3 diary to this issue. It was reported to Qa on Jan 20th as a actual bug. @Flunph I know you reported the issue in https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-sitting-idle-in-oceans.995046/#post-22328669 you might want to add the above info and screen shots to the file, it may save a lot of time fixing this.

 

[Dalwin]

That is what I think we are seeing, and it would explain why divisions stop moving If the convoy priority protocols give trade a higher priority than troop movement. A trade is made, both the sending and receiving countries duplicate assigning convoys to the route, and if needed the convoy allocation routine steals convoys from troops moving at sea. Unfortunately there has been no response from PDS here or in the latest 1.3.3 diary to this issue. It was reported to Qa on Jan 20th as a actual bug. @Flunph I know you reported the issue in https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-sitting-idle-in-oceans.995046/#post-22328669 you might want to add the above info and screen shots to the file, it may save a lot of time fixing this.

The entry I have in the bug file for this was one that was moved to the bug report section. I had not initially placed it there in large part due to the fact that I did NOT have any pertinent save or screen shots to support a bug report. I had merely wanted to call players' attention to the fact that a serious problem existed.

I have begun to lean toward your theory on the cause even though I am certain that recapturing an invalid destination port got many of the stranded units moving again. I generally do not tag switch to other countries so was observing the behavior of the stranded units from the outside rather than inside.

That being said, here is another behavior which I thought supported my initial theory (that the IA was simply failing to reroute) but I see now that it could instead be interpreted to favor yours (lack of convoys). In the game where I first noticed the seriousness of this problem I was playing the UK. I partially solved it by demanding several expeditionary units from Canada. As soon as they gave me ones that were trapped at sea, I was able to assign them new destinations and they moved.

 

[Napoleonetniet]

just doing my first handsoff in 1.3.3 beta it looks 'fixed' so far, no overflow of convoys, no wierd numbers.. well i've ran till barbarrossa and had a peek at germany and uk - can't spot any wierdness yet (/knocksonwood)
must say last couple of days i was also wondering if it was a save-game-corruption going on , sometimes when i load a save some fronts wouldnt be set or an army was suddenly not an army but unassigned troops.. until i reload 1-2x and it would be fixed.. anyway lets hope its gone

now some food, another bucket of coffee, and i guess im going to be playing some (prolly whole night hehe)

 

[Black_Shade]

That is what I think we are seeing, and it would explain why divisions stop moving If the convoy priority protocols give trade a higher priority than troop movement. A trade is made, both the sending and receiving countries duplicate assigning convoys to the route, and if needed the convoy allocation routine steals convoys from troops moving at sea. Unfortunately there has been no response from PDS here or in the latest 1.3.3 diary to this issue. It was reported to Qa on Jan 20th as a actual bug. @Flunph I know you reported the issue in https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-sitting-idle-in-oceans.995046/#post-22328669 you might want to add the above info and screen shots to the file, it may save a lot of time fixing this.

It also might be a combination of the two things, i.e.: The troops are in transport and things are going fine, even if convoys hit zero because the troops were launched first and the convoys already assigned for transport. But on the way, the port they are going to gets captured. This causes them to halt temporarily until a new route/port is found. This new route requires a convoy check, and if there are none the division gets stranded in the ocean.

 

[hillcf]

It also might be a combination of the two things, i.e.: The troops are in transport and things are going fine, even if convoys hit zero because the troops were launched first and the convoys already assigned for transport. But on the way, the port they are going to gets captured. This causes them to halt temporarily until a new route/port is found. This new route requires a convoy check, and if there are none the division gets stranded in the ocean.

Which has to be a bug in the system. Once a convoy is allocated for any reason - import/export, resource supply to a division, allocation to a naval invasion or division transfer across the sea - IT MUST NOT BE REALLOCATED elsewhere until the need it was allocated to is now clear.

 

[Meglok]

just doing my first handsoff in 1.3.3 beta it looks 'fixed' so far, no overflow of convoys, no wierd numbers.. well i've ran till barbarrossa and had a peek at germany and uk - can't spot any wierdness yet (/knocksonwood)
must say last couple of days i was also wondering if it was a save-game-corruption going on , sometimes when i load a save some fronts wouldnt be set or an army was suddenly not an army but unassigned troops.. until i reload 1-2x and it would be fixed.. anyway lets hope its gone

now some food, another bucket of coffee, and i guess im going to be playing some (prolly whole night hehe)

It also might be a combination of the two things, i.e.: The troops are in transport and things are going fine, even if convoys hit zero because the troops were launched first and the convoys already assigned for transport. But on the way, the port they are going to gets captured. This causes them to halt temporarily until a new route/port is found. This new route requires a convoy check, and if there are none the division gets stranded in the ocean.

I played around pre-beta and if i manually added 2000 convoys to ENG everything immediately started moving. The ai had enough convoys to assign everywhere it wanted to, even to double assign on resource trade routes. This leads me to believe it isn't an issue with re-assigning debarkation ports if the target is captured. The computer handled that fine as soon as it has convoys. And that can be fixed via console [ae 2000 Convoy].

I plan on looking at 1.3.3beta tonite. I did not see anything mentioned in the long (and imo fantastic patch log - holy game changers Batman!), but it would not be the first time a late fix didn't get added into a beta log. Hopefully it was just a line of bad code and has been fixed. Worse comes to worse, I now am pretty sure how to manually keep the ai moving.

 

[billcorr]

The Afghanistan AI uses 1 civilian factory to trade for 1 oil, instead of trading for 8 steel. The following production screen shot shows the need for 10 steel and the surplus of 7 oil.

Well. Look at this in the newest change log.

- AI now looks for trades in priority order of biggest lack

- AI can now reprioritize production lines in a few cases to deal with resource lack
- AI us now makes use of more civilian factories when needed for trade

Very nice.

Yay, Podcat!

Keep up the good work, Paradox team!

 

[Dalwin]

Which has to be a bug in the system. Once a convoy is allocated for any reason - import/export, resource supply to a division, allocation to a naval invasion or division transfer across the sea - IT MUST NOT BE REALLOCATED elsewhere until the need it was allocated to is now clear.

I agree with the general principle of what you are saying, but convoys do get lost. The shortfall to existing commitments if all are committed must come from somewhere. I think it is obvious and feel that you would agree that if a country no longer has enough convoys for all needed tasks it is those tasks which are generated daily, i.e. importing of resources or shipping of supplies, which must suffer the shortage. You absolutely should not get a situation where a shortage of convoys affects troops in transit at sea. They are already on the boat and it has not been sunk from beneath them.

 

[Syntalynder]

@podcat

1939 Scenario, every time, UK AI sails in Baltic and invades German coast.

Having the same thing occur over and over again is totally predictable and isn't fun. It really ruins the 1939 game for Germany.

Start the 1939 scenario as Germany. Invade Poland historically. Every single time the UK navy enters the Baltic, fights the German navy then invades the coastline. It ignores how strong German air power in those sea regions is, and ignores coastal fort levels too.

Every time. Also does it on the new 1.3.3 beta.

This means that you have to repeat the same procedure every time: take all free German divisions and assign them to garrison the coast.

Building coastal forts does not stop the AI. I used a cheat to instant build them to level 10 and still the same thing happens.

Putting all Naval Bombers, Close Air Support and having air superiority in the sea regions next to Germany does nothing. The AI still invades.

This means there is no threat evaluation by the AI for invasions. One of the reasons the UK navy didn't go into the Baltic in force is because they knew it was vulnerable to air attack by the Luftwaffe and that it was also mined in coastal areas.

The new aggressive naval action is good for the Pacific, but not for Europe. The Pacific needs to be separated from this AI behaviour to make it more believable.