The great official AI thread

[Sleight of Hand]

Also at the very least, if ITA is going to declare on GRE, it should prepare by placing some solid force in ALB, given it's usually their only shared border. In practice, it never really does.

I added:

        historical_ai = {
            YUG = {
                OR = {
                    exists = no
                    has_capitulated = yes
                    is_in_faction_with = ITA
                    is_in_faction_with = GER
                }
            }
            NOT = {
                any_home_area_neighbor_country = {
                    has_war_with = ROOT
                }       
            }
        }

 

[tom_jones]

• What the AI is doing wrong

Even when the AI already doesn't have enough equipment to train divisions it is attempting to produce, it adds even more divisions to the production queue. All this effectively does is spread around even more what little amount of equipment manage to make it to production, slowing the training process even further.

Exhibit A:

Here, GER AI had 3 divisions (17-19) stuck for months with the ! equipment shortage, and not proceeding with training at all. Nevertheless, the AI added further divisions to the training queue. Unsurprisingly, these divisions don't get any training done, but they still allocate manpower and decrease the rate at which the divisions up in the queue receive their equipment, causing extra delays.

• What you think it should be doing instead.

The AI shouldn't be adding to production queue more divisions of the given type, if there's indicated shortage of equipment for the divisions already undergoing production/training.

 

[Kumsaati]

• What the AI is doing wrong

One thing I noticed in this patch is that the Axis AI is terrible against naval invasions. The new garrison system is great and it is doing wonders for the player, but AI just does not understand how to defend itself. For example, it simply leaves places empty open for invasions and don't even react when they get big. I've seen Rome getting captured like 10 times with me playing as India saving them. Below, there is another example:

As you can see, the Allies are invading, but Germany doesn't even pull one troop from the Soviet border to defend itself. And, by the way, we are not at war with Soviets it is just massing its troops there to attack I don't know when.

• What you think it should be doing instead.

Defend itself. Simple as that. Use its garrison commands to put some troops at least on the coastline to protect against these invasions.

 

[destroyer008]

Hello dev team!

So that is something that is a problem that STILL exists. And it seemingly did not get better with 1.3, because the AI is so unbelievably dumb sometimes. I really do not know why that did not get fixed ASAP, I only can imagine that it is either pretty damn hard for you to fix it, or you just do not have it high on your priority list.
And I think it isn't only me, who gets pissed about it, every time I play a game.

So here is the problem:

The AI's strategical and tactical priorities are really really messed up. The best example I can think of is that the Axis places like 40-70 divisions into the desert, defending every last sand corn while getting utterly destroyed in mainland France, where the Allies landed on the beaches of southern France and are now marching against a very little portion of the Axis' armies. And while the Allies have their easiest time ever, two dozen Axis divisions chill out on the Spanish 2 or 3 province border, to protect it from the fascist National Spain. (wtf!?!)

What should the AI do instead? In my opinion, the AI should have a really high priority on holding, and much more important, fighting back any invading armies as aggressively as it is sane. That's also true for pockets of enemy troops, that are surrounded.

So I am not a programmer and have no clue, why this is happening, but the fact is that this is game breaking in some extent because it is highly annoying to wait for December 1941 as Japan, while seeing that Germany and Italy get their asses handed to them.

My opinion is that on the small scale the AI is already pretty damn good, but on the larger it is really bad.


Just look into the attached save file and look at Africa, the Spanish border, and southern France. Also, there is the region in Tunis, where Axis troops do not dare to touch the Allies and the front in Italy, which is nearly abandoned.

I really hope that your awesome dev team will fix those bigger issues ASAP and make some important hotfixes to the AI because it is a shame that such mistakes in AI behavior ruin an otherwise really nice and entertaining HoI4 run.

Farewell and good luck on the battlefield comrades!

 

[Chromius]

What the AI did.

Playing as Italy, everything is going well. Germany is doing well in France, and I have pushed passed the forts in France and linked up to the German front line in France, assisting as I can. I then decide to conquer Yugoslavia as France is looking like a win for Germany. Romania,Hungary, Bulgaria are all axis. I DOW Yugoslavia.

Germany suddenly all but abandons the French front and sends 90+ divisions to take Yugoslavia, and leaves only 46 divisions on the French front. June 1940.

German AI should always have maximum focus on clearing out France (since it chose that historical route) quick or its doomed. Why did it suddenly prioritize to Yugoslavian front?

Germany has also reinforced the Soviet border which is good, but there are many combat ready German divisions spread out randomly (50ish) in the middle area of Germany doing nothing. I have no idea how the AI looks at the map, but the countries that have the larger military strengths in divisions should always have a higher priority. If the are given a priority like a numerical figure per region have the highest priority at the French/German front with it gradually going down as it deepens into France but still higher than negligible country's with low divisions. Yugoslavia has like 20 divisions and no threat/front moving into Germany yet Germany abandons biggest threat to move major troops to attack it, moving "through" Axis allied countries, without even looking at its allied strength in the area which was more than enough to deal with it, its like all its allies are invisible and it it trying to defend this front as it primary countries borders.

Thanks for continuing to work on this.

edit: Oh and I do not care what Germany does history wise, I would be happier with a smarter AI than exact history, but since Germany chose to attack France it needs to stay on target

 

[Morwys]

Thanks @SteelVolt for all the effort and this initiative.

I just started a game, hands-off, to test performance (and also because it's been a while that I played, I'm still rusty). And, once again, got considerable lag by late game (starts around 1942, becomes severe in 1944), but honestly, in terms of AI, I have zero problems. If anything, I'm still of the opinion that the AI is not the issue in most cases, but that certain mechanics strain the AI (and our rigs) beyond necessity; a hard cap to division production and limiting exp. forces fixes all lag for me and seems to make the AI more efficient.

Anyway, good job.

 

[Arot]

I'm glad to see that enemy's troops are not pulled away from the border completely at any time during peace time. However some weird things happen as the war goes on.
For instance, I played as India, joined Comintern and then joined in German Soviet War. Germans took Moscov and were approaching Stalingrad (if they took it the war would end) when all of the sudden both sides decided to pull their troops away from the front line. I tagged both countries to see where were all their forces and it turned out that Germany was dealing with some minor invasion in France and Soviets sent most of its forces to deal with Japan. The front line was almost empty...
No pride in winning this way right It also happened with other countries...

 

[tom_jones]

• What the AI is doing wrong

The AI seems to have no concept of distance when it comes to air forces. As result, it frequently deploys its forces on the other side of the globe, assisting their allies while neglecting its own home front. In fact, assisting the allies seems to be given preference, which leads to hilarious results.

Exhibit A: here we see JAP fighting good fight for GER in Europe, while GER is helpfully defending JAP's home islands. Very historically accurate.

• What you think it should be doing instead.

When given choice between supporting combat of its own troops and the allies, the AI should value much more supporting its own troops. It should additionally weight the distance from the home area to the region of operation, and similarly prioritize areas closer to its home than ones 5000-10000 km away.

 

[Axe99]

I added:

        historical_ai = {
            YUG = {
                OR = {
                    exists = no
                    has_capitulated = yes
                    is_in_faction_with = ITA
                    is_in_faction_with = GER
                }
            }
            NOT = {
                any_home_area_neighbor_country = {
                    has_war_with = ROOT
                }     
            }
        }

This looks like a good workaround gameplay-wise, but didn't Germany declare war on Yugoslavia months after Italy declared war on Greece? Or have I just completely misunderstood? .

 

[grandad1982]

• What the AI is doing wrong

China is over garrisoning neutral borders with the Allies and the Comintern when it has been invaded by Japan and lost half the country. Of its 117 divisions 50 of them are against the Allies and the Comintern (the Raj and French Indochina being the main fronts being heavily garrisoned).

• What you think it should be doing instead.

It should rate the active front with Japan much more highly. If it needs to secure non aggression pacts with it neutral neighbours to do so, then it should.


Unusually for me there is no screen shot this time. If I had one it would also show an offensive plan against the Raj from China despite the likely hood of it never ever being at war with them.

 

[Mamluke]

Beta patch : 1.3.1 Torch. Using the 1939 start date
The AI still goes for free trade after 1940... wtf!

its August 1942, playing as the Soviet Union, I have been at war against the Axis since February, when I check up on Germany, Germany has switch to free trade!

what the AI is doing wrong:



GOD Dammit, this problem has been around since 1.0! its still... sigh,

the AI has switch to free trade, by doing this, it puts 80% resources to the market, why is this a problem?



the AI now has to wast up to 30+ CIC for resources that already has for free! for exe: even though it produces over 1000 units of steel, it has to wast about 19 CIC to buy steel.. and it still needs more!

why is free trade, and even Export focus a VERY bad Idea for such majors? (ESPECIALLY AI).
After a nation has about 70 or more MIC, we can agree that one needs a LOT of resources to feed the war machine. just 2 production lines of weapons 1 cost about 60 steel, when you add up, arty, Anti-tank, support, trucks, tanks, planes.. etc etc,
but when you have over 120 -130 MIC, and mid game to late technology, where a lot of equipment is now much more expensive in terms of resources, it makes the problem even worse.

the AI simply can not evaluate such an Important decision, there is benefit for Germany to stay at limited exports, maybe even closed economy! (it is situational, I know). but not FU### free trade! not the exact opposite..

this major problem is compounded by... resistance..



the AI simply doesn't handle resistance at all. its random when the AI puts units there, (if it's even putting then). I honestly would not mind if the AI didn't receive any penalties for resistance, with the condition that it stay on gentle occupation.

I implore you SteelVolt, do consider the above, the way the game is set up, Germany NEEDS the Industry of France and the Benelux countries, it doesn't stand a chance in ww2 with out then.

with the resistance destroying all the Industry, and Free trade taking most of the CIC. you get this cluster f##.



the AI gets stuck in an endless loop of factory repair and never improves its own situation.

and not to mention, this Germany is just weak



Notice how its not Building ANY planes or tanks, its investing everything in to regular equipment.

BUT its not enough.



what the AI is doing wrong:

the AI is trying to produce the very expensive weapons 3, when it has neither the Industry to build all of it, nor the Time to build it! (every Division that is on the Eastern front is at 50% strength or less!), nor the steel to account for it!.

What it can and should do:

its a sensible strategy: to sometimes switch from say weapons 2 to weapons 1 in order to get more weapons in a short fall of equipment, with weapons 1, increases in factory output and efficiency really make a difference with older, cheaper equipment. some players would go as far as building basic weapons! (I think that is going too far however)

so my suggestion, when the AI is getting close to less then 1000 stockpile of infantry kits, it switches out the production to weapons 1, sure it losses some equipment bc losses of efficiency, but it will make up for it in no time.
ONLY after the AI build up more then 30K weapons, can it switch to more modern weapons.

is the AI doing something right?
well, its not training any units what so ever, so there is that.

here are 2 save games, after I wrote this, I just found out, the AI had been on free trade since Stember 1941... after 2 years of war with the allies...

 

[Arot]

An important issue is that AI completely ignores the resistance growth...it just keeps fixing the endless line of damaged factories throughout the whole game. Thought it may have to be looked at

 

[Xaelyn]

The peace conference AI seems to have gotten worse this patch. Defeated the Allies as Germany, and Japan (not in faction, but at war with allies) took Florida, Texas, Northern Ireland and some chunks of Scotland (all of which were occupied by me), in addition to various indian/pacific islands. I'm sure it would have been much worse if not for the huge disparity in points between us.

 

[ugh1977]

The AI garrison option is dodgy. For example. I put 56 divisons under a marshal and told them to garrison the ports, victory points and forts. The screen told me that I needed 36 units. The AI them proceeded to occupy about half of the ports and the rest of the units are constantly being moved around beyond the main line. Same with the garrison option for covering the coast. Regardless of the number of units assigned to do so, it rarely does it well, and instead constantly moves the units around (preventing organisation from growing), and not guarding the area's it was supposed to.

I love the idea of the feature but right now it doesn't work. Instead, I'm now having to use the fallback line across all the coastal areas as before the update.

 

[Agiknight]

The new AI Japan seems to be pretty good at taking the small pacific islands and even invading Australia, however I have never seen AI Japan try to take Singapore or any of the Dutch colonies, before or after the patch. I think this is pretty crucial territory they should be trying to take, moreso than Australia.

 

[Napoleonetniet]

agree, i've seen japan go for PAPUA all the time as one of the first (bigger)islands, it could be because Australia has virtually NO defense* it might be sensing a weakness, or the AI is confused about Borneo and DEI now being colonies.

only in my 8th handsoff i've seen Japan also try take singapore, held it shortly then lost it again.. but no more invasions for Rubber/Oil/Tungsten anymore.. somehow it finds the jungles of Papua much more interestign

*no defense due to no manpower from taking total mobilization... while not upping the recruitment laws, it virtually has no manpower from the start of the game.

 

[xMer]

Sino-Japanese war (War focus is done, but it's war is not declared yet)
1. Coast:
What China AI do:
- China does not defend ports nor VP near coast.
What China AI should do:
- China should garrison every port and provinces next to it

2. Paradrop defence
What China AI do:
- China does not garrison airports, VP, strategic locations and even ports within range of Japan Paratroopers.
- People Republic of China doesn't defend it's VP and allow day 1 capitulation by 1 battalion paratroopers paradrop.
What China AI should do:
- China should garrison at least VP and ports that are in Japan paratrooper range

3. Units assigned to wrong fronts
What China AI do:
- China strongly man borders with Chinese Warlords and People Republic of China, despite no justified war or justification in progress.
What China AI should do:
- China should assign that troops for coastal defence and second line of defences

4. Front-line prone to paradrop encirclements, spearheading through weak point and closing encirclement by droping 1 battlalion paratroopers just behind frontline
What China AI do:
- China front is 1 province deep wtih large 50 divisions on China-Japan border and 1 division per province on China-Japan Puppet border.
What China AI should do:
- China should keep reserve in provinces behind river to make frontline wider and safer againt encirclements

5. Researches
What China AI do:
- China research INF weapon I, but doesn't research artillery at all.
What China AI should do:
- China should keep producing basic infantry weapons, but supplement it with artillery.

6. Strategic fallback lines:
What China AI do:
- China ignore River, Mountains and other defensive positions just because they are not on border.
What China AI should do:
- China should consider forming defensive lines behind rivers instead of trying to fight for every province.

7. Emergency Firefighters:
What China AI do:
- AI doesn't have any plan B for emergency situations
What China AI should do:
- China should have a some divisions in deployment queue trained, but undeployed to use them in case of breakthrough or coastal invasion.
While small garrison defend port china should deploy 1-3(depending on invading threat) divisions next to Port let it regain some org and sent into port defence.

 

[Nordman]

So... I thought I should give my opinion on this now.

Well, my first game was as Canada. I went with Britain and built up everything as I saw fit. Contributed to the war as much as I could. Helped clean out Africa and invading Italy. Also helped Greece and went to take out Romania and Hungary. Have also played as New Zealand and South Africa.
With that little background I will give you what I noticed about the AI.

• What the AI is doing wrong

1. AI is terrible at securing pockets of enemies. Two examples. First in Africa, I took all the ports in North Africa, denying the Axis any more supplies. I then went down to do the same in Ethiopia. Meanwhile the AI dosen´t clean up the remaining pockets of enemies. They start to advance into enemy territory quite often, but they constantly stop. And then they do so again and again until I arrived back to clean it up. Same thing happened in Ethiopia where the Japanese also came from the sea and took back some ports. The same thing happened over and over in Italy. They ignored enemy pockets in the south, and almost lost Italy all together due to that. Several times! Have seen the same kind of behavior playing as NZ. Australia just emptied their entire country and left for Europe, leaving them open to a Japanese attack. I had to go in and rescue them. Same thing again. Took the ports and the american Volunteers just stood there doing nothing.

2. The AI have no plan. None what so ever. They just do things. Allies constantly make naval invasions all over the place. And they have no back up in doing so. They land a couple of divisions. Start advancing right away, with no org. Do so just straight in and get cut of and defeated. Sometimes they manage to bring some backup and push in a bit. But then again, to few divisions. Poorly chosen landing sites and constantly attacking with no org. Also not taking care and defending the ports good enough. They should se that this is their only supply route and guard it well!

3. The AI is like said above constantly attacking with no org. Especially the Allies it seems. They either make a naval invasion and move out straight away. (Rarely even use marines for that purpose) And they seem to more often than not, strategically redeploy everywhere they go and then straight in to a defending or attacking position. And it´s no surprise, but they always lose. And then more often than not they just spam attacks into a territory with no org.

4. AI is experts of emptying their home territory completely and just go on a crusade. Norway is a good example. Once Germany have declared war, they enter the Allies. And since Germany must take Denmark (often) before they move on to take Norway, (that is an improvement from previous patch), Norway have either completely or near to emptied their own territory. Leaving it open for the Germans to conquer, while they partake in a failed naval invasion in The Netherlands...

5. AI fleets is not working. Britain still produces silly amounts of level 1 cruisers and battle ships and just leave them in port. Without commanders or organisation in fleets. Just 100 different fleets of level 1 light cruisers. The fact that the Axis even can move on the oceans should be enough of a problem, since they are utterly behind in the naval spectrum from the get go. Japan shouldn´t even come near Africa if they don´t send their fleet there.

• What you think it should be doing instead.

1. The AI should be able to spot a problem of having unresolved combats laying around everywhere. They should be able to spot the enemy pockets better and take decisions to clean them out before they advance any further. With the correct amount of own divisions! Can´t press this enough. No sillyness with so many divisions they use up all the supplies in the area and get stuck due to lack of supplies.

2. The AI needs an over all improvement. From the very foundation. Allies naval invande all over the place and Axis just send their entire army where the player happens to be, ignoring large portions of the front. The AI must get better at planing their war as a whole. Naval invasions should for example take place with enough units to establish and maintain a good foothold. And it should always be at a port. Preferably a good port, that can sustain a large fighting force. Of course I don´t mean that the naval invasions always should be successful, but more so in the future than now. Due to more planning and thinking by the AI.

3. The AI should not move around so much with the strategical redeployment. Especially NOT by the front. They should also wait until they have regained a large portion of the org before they advance after a naval invasion. I´m not gonna touch on para drops, since I´ve never ever seen it happen. They should not attack while they have no or very low org. It should be at least a certain percentage of org if they are to attack. The AI should also be able to calculate better whether a attack is likely to success or not, due to enemy strength, org, position and so on.

4. AI must be better at defending and garrison their home territory. It´s far to often empty as it is now. Some percentage should always be assigned home to defend. Unless they are fighting on their own territory. Then they should defend ports, VP and concentrate on the front. China is far to often guarding against the Comintern and Allies. Once Japan attack their home territory. AI should withdraw everyone that is fighting elsewhere and send them home to defend their core territories. Like in Norway for example.

5. Well....AI should first of all learn how to use newly produced ships. Not just produce silly amounts of low level ships and bunker up in home ports. This matter needs to be addressed ASAP. You managed to solve it regarding fighters, what I have noticed anyway. So it should be the same or almost the same on this regard.


One more thing. While playing as Canada, as I mentioned in the beginning, the US froze. They entered the war due to Japan declaring war on them. Then they sent a large portion of their forces towards Europe. I don´t really know what triggered it, but all their forces got stuck on the oceans before they arrived. And then they didn´t send anymore. They got stuck and slowly suffered death by attrition.

I don´t really know when they got stuck, but it might have been connected to Nationalist Spain joining the Axis and taking Gibraltar, that made them freeze out at the ocean.

And lastly, I understand that you are a smal team of devs, and are doing the best you can. I don´t mean to smack down on the entire game and AI. So don´t take it like that. This is just my observations of the problems with the AI. I still love this game and is playing it all the time.

Feel free to discuss my list and come with your opinions and own observations if they are like mine.

 

[Praetori]

• What you think it should be doing instead.

The AI shouldn't be adding to production queue more divisions of the given type, if there's indicated shortage of equipment for the divisions already undergoing production/training.

Or it should make 1st, 2nd, 3rd rate template copies barring certain types of equipment from the different divisions when there's a shortage ensuring that the prioritized divisions get existing stuff along with the front-line units (getting the latest) while the 2nd and 3rd rate divisions gets what's being freed up eventually when the upgrades starts to send the old stuff back to the pool.

 

[tom_jones]

Or it should make 1st, 2nd, 3rd rate template copies barring certain types of equipment from the different divisions when there's a shortage ensuring that the prioritized divisions get existing stuff along with the front-line units (getting the latest) while the 2nd and 3rd rate divisions gets what's being freed up eventually when the upgrades starts to send the old stuff back to the pool.

That's mostly down to setting priority for "upgrades" higher than "equipment for divisions in training" (currently they are set equal), but note it has little effect on whether the divisions actually get trained, and doesn't address this issue -- when the AI is 50-100k equipment in the hole it doesn't matter if some units are set to receive the latest stuff and some are given older stuff, a bunch of them isn't getting anything and doesn't advance, period.