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King of Men

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Jon Young said:
Ah, the organic system. Much beloved of empires through the ages. Have there been any attempts to revise this situation and standardise matters?

Quite a devolved system, if I'm reading correctly. Presumably this means that there is quite a variation in the laws and local institutions within this region?

Well, any attempt to impose an internal tariff is going to get you in serious trouble. The Storting is quite at liberty to set your taxes much higher than the neighbouring regions', since after all now you've got this lovely tariff to help you pay it; and where otherwise an infringement on local privilege would see your neighbours helping you, here they'll be gloating all the way to the bank. So there is some standardisation on any issue that affects neighbouring regions. For internal matters, standardisation efforts have largely foundered, over the years, on the united opposition of the local tings; but the boundary between what is internal and not does tend to shift a bit over the centuries, especially as the regular army becomes more powerful with respect to the militias.

Fair enough - those are certainly the three responsibilities usually considered the bare minimum for a national government. With this level of devolution there are often arguments over what exactly constitutes a tax, however...

Right; that's what the army is for. :D Really, the army is the unifying institution, here.

Layered on by whom? The Storting? Also I count a two-fold split :p

Yep, the Storting deals with the strils. And you quote a two-fold split because you didn't quote the parts about the military organisation, with a local militia plus the regular army. :)

Interesting. This implies that the civil infrastructure in Yngling Germany is either non-existent, managed by the army (seems unlikely given the reaction of a Yngling officer detailed to oversee roadworks) or entirely in the hands of the industrialists. Corporate feudalism?

Well, industrialists and officers do tend to overlap, being drawn very much from the same class. I don't see why an Yngling officer shouldn't build roads, though - sure, you wouldn't use hird troops to do it, but you can't very well keep your stril conscripts drilling all the year; they might get good enough to fight the Ynglings. A bit of labour detail will be good for them. Also, this makes it easy for an industrialist to build a new railroad, should he need one; if he can come up with the materials, he just needs to ask the local army commander (who is likely a relative who owes the industrialist a favour for getting him the position... nepotism isn't a vice with the Ynglings, it's a way of life) for labour.

Strange. I would have expected areas settled directly from Norway / Scandinavia to be structured more like those areas than the conquered lands further east. Does this mean that the local Tings in north america are also 'unofficial', and if so does this cause much resentment across the atlantic?

Respectively, yes and no. There's a limit to how 'unofficial' a body can be that has sat continuously for four hundred years, is the only recognised civil power in the area, and probably has the power to secede if it wants to. (Tempered by the fact that a small nation in the Americas is quite a bit like a tasty, cooked pig, running about squealing "Eat me! Eat me!" As witness the fate of the US when it actually did secede.) Norway is like Britain in this respect; it doesn't have a written constitution, but certain customs have the force of law. 'Unofficial' just means they don't send direct representatives to the Storting (basically impossible at the time they were formed), but they certainly have ways of making their displeasure known, starting with tripling the price of supplies to the army garrisons. (In other words, they can get their taxes back if they want to.) Nobody would dream of imposing taxes on them without quite a bit of consultation and representation.

As always, just because the checks and balances are not written in law doesn't mean they don't exist. And, to be sure, Norway does have the ultimate balance: If you really, really piss someone off, he can challenge you to a duel, which goes right across the boundaries of Ting jurisdiction. The formal protection of Tingsmenn against being challenged only lasts until they lose an election; and anyway, you can always challenge a relative. It's risky, of course; duels can go both ways, and often end with even the victor wounded or crippled. That's why they're rarely used. Still, the freedom to duel is one of the reasons Ynglings give for considering themselves the freest people in the world; as important to them as free speech is to modern Americans.

Do the guerillas have any form of organisation or ideology? Or is it very much a 'kill the interloper' knee-jerk situation?

Hum. Let's see. We know they are being supported with weapons by other empires; there would presumably be no ideological strings attached at this time, unlike the Cold War - this is just straightforward colonial rivalry. Such support would be limited, though, by the possibility of retaliation, just as blacks were kept out of active fighting in the Boer war of our timeline. The revolt needs to be kept to a simmer, enough to engage Yngling attention, but not enough to force them into death camps and other nastily effective solutions. It would certainly be possible (well, not in game terms, except accidentally) to end the problem by just depopulating the area, but it hasn't been necessary yet. The trick is to keep the flame of resistance just sufficiently alive that you can fan it into a real firestorm when the next big European war comes along. Conversely, the Ynglings are getting blooded, experienced troops. It's a bit of an open question who really benefits the most.

There may or may not be Marxist, Anarchist, and even Liberal and Christian cadre/organisers/missionaries among them, but there's no native leadership educated in Europe and picking up those ideologies from there, as happened in our history. And white people are not exactly popular in Norwegian Africa at the moment. So I'd say that the closest thing the rebels have to a unifying ideology is Islam - sub-Saharan Africa is one of the last remaining bastions of that religion, what with the Crusades being so effective.
 

Sid Meier

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China will grow larger.
 

binTravkin

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China will grow larger.
Lol, I still remember the voice in which it was said in C&C Generals :D

Great to see your game going this far!:)

Are you planning to start from CK again, once this is done (and play through CK->EU3->Vic2->Hoi2:DD)?
 

Sid Meier

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if we do, Ill be an Moscovite probly, more interesting assuming we dong have an aggressive Poland.
 

binTravkin

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I'd then advise you to go for pereyaslavl and do the same I did in the first sequel to the GG I tried to start (become Russia-Cuman-Bolgar 40 years in game!:D ).

Are you about to convert to HoI or is there still a session's worth of time left to play?
If it is the former, I'd like to join in, unless it's DD which I dont own.
There are still a few countries which can stop the drumbeat of advancing hordes :rolleyes:
 

binTravkin

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Btw, could you guys give a link to the game thread, I appear to be weak at searching.
 

Sid Meier

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binTravkin

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Sid Meier, you're weak on memory. :p
Not only I have ICQ, we have exchanged contacts and I also think I have your MSN contact where you're found by the name of Blayne.
 

Sid Meier

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hehehe. Okay KoM upload ze saves I gave you so I can show people on DD forum the world situation.

Skarion you around? You better show up for last week.
 

Skarion

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I am around and my plans is to show up. Think it's a 95% chance that I get there in time. ;)

I am going to install my new graphic card (Bought it to be able to play EU3 when it get out) tommorow, so if something strange happends with that I maybe get late.
 

Sid Meier

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sigh,,, where is everyone.
 

Sid Meier

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okay session is almsot over I was able to glean The Kuril islands and Shakhalin from Italy.

BelgiumAI lost vs KoM so KoM made the borders every pretty nice, China institutes Universal healthcare and a minimal wage laws.

So ya were gonna play the last year this week and then convert to Hoi2 Doomsday, so ya who here has DD? We need England and possibly Persia.


Roster for DD
--------------

UK: ?
Belgium: Danomite
Persia: BinTravkin(?)
Poland: Radek
Norway: King of Men
China: Sid Meier
Spain: Ego(?)
Italy: Bloodstrike

So far officially were missing a UK but Bintravkin and Ego I'm not sure of 100% so we may need people for them. England Persia and Spain. Perliminatary save here: http://www.slac.stanford.edu/~rolfa/MTT_DD_1914.eug

Note, were in 1919 so things will be much different I just need to send newest save to KoM.
 

VILenin

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I can play DD, what time are your sessions? And some pics of the world situation would b nice. :)
 

Sid Meier

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saturday 10 AM estern (maybe 11 AM), k ego is out so Spain is Open.

So UK and Persia need people.
 

buneres

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Hmm

I have to agree, we really need some screens of the world right now :)

By the way, been following this game since the good old CK days.... Looking forward to the DD convertion :)
 

VILenin

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1000 EST sounds doable, though I may occasionally have a work conflict. I'd be willing to take a stab at UK or Spain, or if another country if the group feels it needs a warm body. Let me know when you're ready to switch over and we can work something outl. :)
 

Sid Meier

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Alrighty that should give us a Full House.

Veterans
----------------------
China: Sid Meier
Norway: King of Men
Greece: Skarion

Recruits
---------

Spain:
UK:
Persia:
Belgium: Danomite
Poland: Radek
Italy: Bloodstrike

So ya, who wanted UK again? and who else I think at least 2 people expressed interest? If for some reason were "appear" full come anyways someone might not show up.