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Lessing

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A craven stressed dwarf with a martial ability of 1 just won my grand tournament. Seriously? What's the point, are those winners and runner-ups just randomnly assigned?

Apart from that, it would be fun if I could tell my spymaster to sabotage some horse harnesses and lances to conveniently endanger some people I don't like.
 

Me_

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It is random with minor bonuses/penalties to the odds based on martial ability.
 

Kimberly

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In my experience, it's usually the people with the highest martial skill that are at the top, which makes sense. But there's also a random factor, which also makes sense, and makes it more enjoyable. I think your craven stressed dwarf is just an outlier, unless other people have this happen to them often, too...?

Edit: From tournament_events.txt, the character event for winning the tournament has a mean time to happen of 10 months. This is multiplied by a factor of 0.75 (increasing a character's odds of winning) for having a Martial ability of >=8, >=10, >=12, and >=14 and multiplied by 1.25 (decreasing the odds)for having a Martial ability of <7, <5, <3, or <1. There is only one winner. All capable 16-year-old males who are attending the tournament and not in prison are eligible.

The calculation is identical for second and third place, but someone who has won first place is not eligible for second place, and someone who has won first or second place is not eligible for third place. Because first place is decided first, and then second place, and then third place, the person with the highest martial skill is more likely to get first place even though the odds are the same for the second and third places. Note that if if two people have a Martial skill of 14 or more, they have equal probability of winning, even if one has a Martial of 30 and the other has only 20, for example.

Getting all bonuses means a MTTH of 10 months * 0.75^4 = 3.1640625 months. Getting all maluses means a MTTH of 10 months * 1.25^4 = 24.4140625 months. 24.414062 / 3.1640625 = 7.716049382716049382716049382716

Code:
mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 10
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.75
			martial = 8
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.75
			martial = 10
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.75
			martial = 12
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.75
			martial = 14
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 1.25
			NOT = { martial = 7 }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 1.25
			NOT = { martial = 5 }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 1.25
			NOT = { martial = 3 }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 1.25
			NOT = { martial = 1 }
		}
	}

Tl;dr: Your odds of winning are determined solely by your Martial ability, provided you are older than 16, male, not in prison, and capable. People with a Martial skill of 14 or higher are about 7.72 times as likely to win a particular place as people with a Martial skill of 0.
 
Last edited:

cyrileom

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I don't understand why my over 20 king, and my list of 10-20 martial generals are repeatedly beaten by 8 martial or lower. I think CK2+ helps it in that regard, but it's still bad. It does seem to be almost 100% randomized.
 

Tempestra

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Remember, Martial skill doesn't really reflect physical prowess in one-on-one combat as much as it does the ability to direct armies. The two are linked, but not identical.
 

OrdepNM

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Remember, Martial skill doesn't really reflect physical prowess in one-on-one combat as much as it does the ability to direct armies. The two are linked, but not identical.

Very true, I think people are confused by the swords icon.

I think the craven trait should automatically disqualify a character from the prizes, that would do alot towards making them somewhat more believable.
 

unmerged(149861)

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Remember, Martial skill doesn't really reflect physical prowess in one-on-one combat as much as it does the ability to direct armies. The two are linked, but not identical.
I still feel that my 22 martial tough soldier scarred duelist should have more than a random chance of beating the inbred donkey from a barrony.
 

Lessing

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The bigger the realm, the more likely it is that some random shmuck with a mediocre or worse martial ability will win.

However, people with physical disabilities (dwarf, clubfoot) or disqualifying traits (craven) should be... disqualified to win.
 

Pinstar

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Very true, I think people are confused by the swords icon.

I think the craven trait should automatically disqualify a character from the prizes, that would do alot towards making them somewhat more believable.


I seem to recall some movie..or TV show, where a very craven character was pitted against a veteran knight. The Coward was terrified and looked away while the horses were charging each other, making his lance rise up and hit his opponent in the face, making him the winner.
 

Kimberly

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It would probably be good to add probability modifiers based on traits, but I don't see much merit in disqualifying people based on certain traits--it's pretty funny if a craven dwarf manages to win a tournament, if you ask me! As long as it's suitably rare. Perhaps flavor text ought to change if a very unlikely winner manages to claim victory?
 
Last edited:

aniuby

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In addition, if your ruler is a female, she cannot organise a Grand Tournament in the vanilla game. And that's silly too, that some old-fashioned rules require one to be able to wade into the melee and get themselves thumped like a common peon in order to have the right to host a tournament.

I'd like to be able to host a mighty tourney, with my queen presiding as the lady of honour, and she would bestow a laurel wreath and lots of accolades on the winner. And maybe introduce the lucky fellow to some palace maids to, um, collect some genetic material for the national eugenics program.
 

Me_

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It would probably be good to add probability modifiers based on traits, but I don't see much merit in disqualifying people based on certain traits--it's pretty funny if a craven dwarf manages to win a tournament, if you ask me! As long as it's suitably rare. Perhaps flavor text ought to change if a very unlikely winner makes to claim victory?

A dwarf wouldn't be able to hold a lance properly, or, more likely, hold a proper lance at all. I see no reason why one couldn't win a melee, though.
 

Fishy101

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It would probably be good to add probability modifiers based on traits, but I don't see much merit in disqualifying people based on certain traits--it's pretty funny if a craven dwarf manages to win a tournament, if you ask me! As long as it's suitably rare. Perhaps flavor text ought to change if a very unlikely winner manages to claim victory?

What's funny is that it's not rare. I personally don't care who wins as long as their opinion increases. Well I do prefer if they are one of my bigger vassals like a King or a Duke. I've actually had my ruler win a couple of times even though they didn't have very high martial skill. That prestige and gold gain is pretty awesome. I have never seen anyone with 20+ martial skill win.