The Grain Dole

[MadImmortalMan]

Been looking at the screenshots, and I have a question. One of the major factors in Roman wars was the fact that Italy could not feed itself. So control of the sea routes from the grain provinces (Sardinia, Sicily, Africa, Egypt later on, etc) was basically the lynchpin in particularly any internal power struggles the Romans fought. Are there any penalties for the Roman player if he can't fill his grain tokens for the Roman citizens? Can his armies run out of food?

 

[SonofWinter]

Been looking at the screenshots, and I have a question. One of the major factors in Roman wars was the fact that Italy could not feed itself. So control of the sea routes from the grain provinces (Sardinia, Sicily, Africa, Egypt later on, etc) was basically the lynchpin in particularly any internal power struggles the Romans fought. Are there any penalties for the Roman player if he can't fill his grain tokens for the Roman citizens? Can his armies run out of food?

A soldier is the last one, not to get fed. You can take that as fact.

But your idea is valid as far as a grain dole. Would you as the government be allowed to force your citizens to migrate to places that could feed them?

 

[unmerged(76495)]

Been looking at the screenshots, and I have a question. One of the major factors in Roman wars was the fact that Italy could not feed itself. So control of the sea routes from the grain provinces (Sardinia, Sicily, Africa, Egypt later on, etc) was basically the lynchpin in particularly any internal power struggles the Romans fought. Are there any penalties for the Roman player if he can't fill his grain tokens for the Roman citizens? Can his armies run out of food?

I find that doubtful. Paradox has a tendency to prevent any players from doing things that could result in massive deaths. For instance terror bombing is not part of HoI nor can you starve the british food supply. Thus I doubt you will be able to do this here.

Not that this means grain is just another more or less useful resource like in EU2 (don´t have EU3, but its most likely the same). No having grain will increase your population growth, but how much is still unknown. But more people = more power. So getting grain to your heartlands will be a very importment thing for your long-term strenght.

 

[comagoosie]

I hope that grain will be worth more in EU:R than in EU3. Even though in EU3 grain saved you from the plague, I don't think that that is a good enough incentive. Grain in EU:R should increase your population growth and manpower rate. There are tons of uses for grain, so grain better be important.

But by the looks of it, salt will outdo it.

 

[richtern]

But by the looks of it, salt will outdo it.

If I remember correctly that was how the legions were paid, especially in the early republic.

Unhappy troops are a bad thing too...

 

[unmerged(1823)]

But by the looks of it, salt will outdo it.

Grain gives 3% population growth. A rather powerful thing, as the base is 1% and getting looted by enemies puts it back with -5%.

 

[unmerged(8915)]

Grain gives 3% population growth. A rather powerful thing, as the base is 1% and getting looted by enemies puts it back with -5%.

but will a single province be able to give that bonus to the entire empire? or just that particular province? or by proxy the province with the trade route? still, lacking the grain connection will not be a malus per se or as critical as in history..

 

[unmerged(7537)]

but will a single province be able to give that bonus to the entire empire? or just that particular province? or by proxy the province with the trade route? still, lacking the grain connection will not be a malus per se or as critical as in history..

I suppose that trading for a resource gives a province the bonus associated with that resource, e.g. there is a screenshot somewhere mentioning that trading for horses gives the ability to build horse archers (in the respective province, I presume).

 

[comagoosie]

Grain gives 3% population growth. A rather powerful thing, as the base is 1% and getting looted by enemies puts it back with -5%.

Powerful thing, I would say so!

the base is 1%, is that per day, or year, or decade. I can't imagine it as per decade

 

[unmerged(76495)]

but will a single province be able to give that bonus to the entire empire? or just that particular province? or by proxy the province with the trade route? still, lacking the grain connection will not be a malus per se or as critical as in history..

This has been discussed quite often in the dev diaries and I suggest you read them. But basicly if you have a province with grain or other benefit granting resource. Then that province will gain that bonus. If you upgrade your infastructure, then you will be able to trade that good with other provinces (both domestic and not) which will then too gain the bonus. Each level of infastructure will allow you to trade with one more province.

 

[ikki]

but will a single province be able to give that bonus to the entire empire? or just that particular province? or by proxy the province with the trade route? still, lacking the grain connection will not be a malus per se or as critical as in history..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malus

This is about grain, not apples.
But i would assume this is by traderoute.. grain, horses, iron, elephants,..

 

[unmerged(78438)]

I find that doubtful. Paradox has a tendency to prevent any players from doing things that could result in massive deaths. For instance terror bombing is not part of HoI nor can you starve the british food supply. Thus I doubt you will be able to do this here.

Which is unacceptable. In the "Romance Of The Three Kingdoms" series of games, food is just too important, almost as important as anything else. If you have a unit of 10,000 men, and only 20 days worth of food, when that food reaches 0, the men starve/run off. Within a turn of running out of food, your troop strength saps down to ~7500, then ~5000, then around ~4000, then almost nothing.

While starving an army might not be as important in "modern" PI games such as HoI, in Rome it should be paramount.

If Paradox fails to deliver such an important and realistic feature into Rome, then I urge a modder to feature it and stress its importance. Also, the ability to decimate your own troops should be in there, as a punishment for failure. (I do a similar thing in HoI - I send paratroopers on suicide missions if they didnt fight effectively when playing as Communist China)

We need terror bombing, we need starvation, we need the things that makes war terrible, and therefore get our fill from playing these games.

 

[ulmont]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malus

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/malus#Antonyms

Note that "bonus" is among the listed antonyms.

 

[Shadow Knight]

Thanks Johan for the info.

Do any of the other trade goods offer special bonuses too?

 

[unmerged(9599)]

Thanks Johan for the info.

Do any of the other trade goods offer special bonuses too?

yes but we don't know what they are.

Presumably horses would give a bonus to cavalry construction iron to most military stuff. Other than that I dunno

 

[comagoosie]

Here is a screenshot of some goods.

 

[The Boss]

I remember that wood was required to build archer units.

 

[vertinox]

Which is unacceptable. In the "Romance Of The Three Kingdoms" series of games, food is just too important, almost as important as anything else. If you have a unit of 10,000 men, and only 20 days worth of food, when that food reaches 0, the men starve/run off. Within a turn of running out of food, your troop strength saps down to ~7500, then ~5000, then around ~4000, then almost nothing.

Huh. I loose men and units in Pdox games all the time to attrition. They are talking about province populations which is hard to get to zero in most games.

If it is anything like EU3 you've got a limit to how many Regiments that you can have in a province before suffering attrition (which gets worse in the winter).

A cool feature would be if you could loot your own province to feed your troops at the expense of your own civilians. (They might rebel tho ; )

 

[MadImmortalMan]

Huh. I loose men and units in Pdox games all the time to attrition. They are talking about province populations which is hard to get to zero in most games.

If it is anything like EU3 you've got a limit to how many Regiments that you can have in a province before suffering attrition (which gets worse in the winter).

A cool feature would be if you could loot your own province to feed your troops at the expense of your own civilians. (They might rebel tho ; )

I'm not really interested in losing population or starvation, frankly. The dole was the #1 most important domestic political issue of Roman times, particularly the late republic.

It doesn't really look like the game is built in such a way to really reflect the political shuffling, I suppose. I'd make the likelihood of civil war increase the longer you go without grain. Maybe through events.

 

[Snall]

yes but we don't know what they are.

Presumably horses would give a bonus to cavalry construction iron to most military stuff. Other than that I dunno

It's more like you can't build cav without horses, etc.