Samilou said:
I have never heard of anyone being behind at tech due to lag issues, and it is definitely a bad idea to give someone edits because you think lag may be at fault.
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I have never heard of anyone being behind at tech due to lag issues, and it is definitely a bad idea to give someone edits because you think lag may be at fault.
Can we discuss the edits before the game please? As is quite obvious, I'm not happy at all with losing 9 provinces (including a COT) for nothing!
aryus86 said:
A few days ago BGW asked me to give my views on what edits should be done. After Krantz made his alternative save.
I checked the autosave and suggested the following edits.
350 cash to England (compensation for the losses in the war vs. Simon)
-2000 cash for Sweden
2000 tech investment for Sweden. Area will have to be chosen by Snake.
The tech investments BGW mentioned a few posts ago (the 5000 infra to Hungary etc.)
-17.7 % inflation for Sweden
And there are two things I could not decide on.
The first was an edit to Venice. My refinery in Mantua was burned down by French troops. The problem is that these French troops were trapped going to Venice and could not be attacked. So I had no way of beating them and prevent their yearly looting and the eventual destruction of the refinery. So I asked for the refinery in Mantua back.
The third is the release of the Netherlands. In a lot of games the Netherlands gets released at the historical date (between 1559 and 1569 more or less).
Last game in which I subbed it was released early and Austria got some compensation for that.
I think we'll have to decide if we want to release NL this early, what it will get when it gets released and what compensation Austria will get if it NL is released early.
I think NL should have at least the four provinces that are its historical territory. We could agree to give it Flanders and Brabant too, but any more would be excessive.
If it gets released early (so now basically) I think Austria should get 900 gold as compensation for the early release of the four provinces. If the six get released I think it should get 3000 gold compensation. 3000 is a lot, but losing a Cot and 6 very wealthy provs early is a big hit to Austria's income.
And I personally think releasing NL can wait a session.
On release NL should get some cash. 2500 would be good.
EDITED: Just to be clear, this edits would be made to the autosave, not the save BGW already edited. So no extra bonusses for Brandenburg and Hungary
Miozozny said:
Nice! this edits are much better.
I have only one thing to say; we don't need to fire the event for Netherland like BGW did. If we want it do be easy, then change the date for Netherland in the revolt.txt and fire the Netherland as a vassal. After that the vassal status could be removed from the save!
Last session I fought vs stab hits due to random events.
Sry for not helping France, I just could annex Castile.
Maybe Austria could sell our Canarias?
Maybe Portugal could sell Orania?
Sry for not helping France, I just could annex Castile.
Maybe Austria could sell our Canarias?
Maybe Portugal could sell Orania?
I believe Portugal would indeed be interested in selling Orania for the sake of good relations and as we dont really want it anymore anywayElio Vasa said:
, I had thought about approaching you about it, will talk to you later regarding it.
Sry to say it, but I'll move on this friday evening to my mom's house;
so I let You know it about my possible absence on next session.
If there isn't a player available to sub me
I can edit a post in the sub thread.
so I let You know it about my possible absence on next session.
If there isn't a player available to sub me
I can edit a post in the sub thread.
Miozozny's opinions have always been clever since the start, so I'll follow his suggestions for the edits blindly.
On Holland, I'd like it to be the more historical possible : that is wait a session, and make it 4 provinces.
On Venice factory, we all know manufactories can get burned down randomly during wars if there are troops on the territory, so it appears like a common "war accident". And if I remember well, others players reported to have lost one as well. If there is any reason Venice's factory disapeared in an abnormal manner, please explain better why.
BTW which country was being played by Rappar ?
On Holland, I'd like it to be the more historical possible : that is wait a session, and make it 4 provinces.
On Venice factory, we all know manufactories can get burned down randomly during wars if there are troops on the territory, so it appears like a common "war accident". And if I remember well, others players reported to have lost one as well. If there is any reason Venice's factory disapeared in an abnormal manner, please explain better why.
BTW which country was being played by Rappar ?
Some current problems I have discovered:
If you are giving Venice back its refinery, you will have to give Hungary back its fine arts academy in their capital (where else?) as it was destroyed by almost the same reason. I dont know who and I didnt even know that could happen that easy (and I thought I knew all these stuff already) and wouldnt have been able to fight them back as my troops was in the south plus I didnt know the poles where marching in whose may be the ones who did that.
I also want to tell you I discovered Spain has 1000 ducats in loans, same with Sweden.
And also I think you should give Venice back its old loans which Krantz edited away because he dosent want anyone to get bankrupt but i have the same problem occurred by the same reason WAR DESTROYS THE ECONOMY, so if you really are not going to give Venice its loans back you will have to take away hungary's loans to as its caused by the EXACTLY same reason and Hungary also risks becoming bankrupt because it can only handle its loans when it is in peace (it only gets around 100-150 or something ducats per year which has to be spent to the war otherwise I will lose). Hungary is a full spend or full save country currently!
Austria also has a lot of loans even if they actually CAN pay them.
Also an announcement: Hungary will reestablish its friendhip with Austria next session as our diplomatic conflict only occured because of a misunderstanding: Austria offered me to join his planned war with Venice
I told him im not ready, I did some misspellings by mistake which made it look like im ready, I immediately corrected it with just saying the letter which gamlasemlan never saw, he declared war on Venice later in the belief I was ready however he crashed immediately and could'nt invite me and his allies to join the war so I misunderstood it as he was not caring about that im not ready (I was fighting in lithuania at that time) and quite swiftly left our alliance which made them think im a traitor as they didnt know what i mentioned earlier.
If you are giving Venice back its refinery, you will have to give Hungary back its fine arts academy in their capital (where else?) as it was destroyed by almost the same reason. I dont know who and I didnt even know that could happen that easy (and I thought I knew all these stuff already) and wouldnt have been able to fight them back as my troops was in the south plus I didnt know the poles where marching in whose may be the ones who did that.
I also want to tell you I discovered Spain has 1000 ducats in loans, same with Sweden.
And also I think you should give Venice back its old loans which Krantz edited away because he dosent want anyone to get bankrupt but i have the same problem occurred by the same reason WAR DESTROYS THE ECONOMY, so if you really are not going to give Venice its loans back you will have to take away hungary's loans to as its caused by the EXACTLY same reason and Hungary also risks becoming bankrupt because it can only handle its loans when it is in peace (it only gets around 100-150 or something ducats per year which has to be spent to the war otherwise I will lose). Hungary is a full spend or full save country currently!
Austria also has a lot of loans even if they actually CAN pay them.
Also an announcement: Hungary will reestablish its friendhip with Austria next session as our diplomatic conflict only occured because of a misunderstanding: Austria offered me to join his planned war with Venice
I told him im not ready, I did some misspellings by mistake which made it look like im ready, I immediately corrected it with just saying the letter which gamlasemlan never saw, he declared war on Venice later in the belief I was ready however he crashed immediately and could'nt invite me and his allies to join the war so I misunderstood it as he was not caring about that im not ready (I was fighting in lithuania at that time) and quite swiftly left our alliance which made them think im a traitor as they didnt know what i mentioned earlier.
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No sir.Elio Vasa said:
Russia.Umbre said:
Austria is not happy with the current gang-banging on Venice and will not establish any friendships with the specific nations at war.Samilou said:
With regards to the loans; if one nation's loans are removed, then all the others ought to be removed for consistency.
The burning of manus is a really irritating occurence and I think burnt manus should be re-edited back. This would disable the deliberate burning of manus in wars.
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Umbre said:
The difference is that the army that destroyed my manu is an army that can't be attacked. As you are neutral in this war you may as well start the save as Venice and check the province of Mantua. The French army there was been going to Veneto for a lot of years now and a Venetian army going to Mantua will not attack the French army.
I agree that if France had an army there that I could attack it would have been a different matter. I may not have been able to beat them, but that would have been a military problem. Now it's caused by what I consider a bug.
@Samilou: The edits I suggest are on the original autosave. Any edits BGW and Krantz mentioned are not in that save. So no loans will be edited away. I took my loans willingly (though I only found out after the session there were so many of them
) and I will repay them. My economy can take a hit.@almost all players: opinions about size and releasedate of NL plz. Who will play it? Grzegorz?
And who will play Russia? Darkdeath?
Are we going to introduce rewards for AAR's?
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Miozozny said:The difference is that the army that destroyed my manu is an army that can't be attacked. As you are neutral in this war you may as well start the save as Venice and check the province of Mantua. The French army there was been going to Veneto for a lot of years now and a Venetian army going to Mantua will not attack the French army.
I agree that if France had an army there that I could attack it would have been a different matter. I may not have been able to beat them, but that would have been a military problem. Now it's caused by what I consider a bug.
@Samilou: The edits I suggest are on the original autosave. Any edits BGW and Krantz mentioned are not in that save. So no loans will be edited away. I took my loans willingly (though I only found out after the session there were so many of them
@almost all players: opinions about size and releasedate of NL plz. Who will play it? Grzegorz?
And who will play Russia? Darkdeath?
Are we going to introduce rewards for AAR's?
My opinion about Netherlands size would be that we can compensate them as people think they are to small by giving tax income bonuses and a manufactory or two of the players choosing or adding Flandern and ?Brabant? to Netherlands as they are dutch culture.
Opinion about rewards for AAR's, YES!
Russia I dont know.
I think Netherlands is going to be played by the former polish player.
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If we decide to rebuild each burned down manufactories, I must be clear now and apply to everyone.Miozozny said:
Good attitude.Miozozny said:@Samilou: The edits I suggest are on the original autosave. Any edits BGW and Krantz mentioned are not in that save. So no loans will be edited away. I took my loans willingly (though I only found out after the session there were so many of them
These two players should show their interest. And remember Gamlansam mentioned he'd be willing to play as perm.Miozozny said:
On Grergorz, he shows up half of the time and when he's here he causes at least two rehost every session. That's about 20 min. lost each time.
Umbre said:
There are two different points here. The first is the question if we want to give manus back if they are burnt down by rebels or enemies. I personally wouldn't like that. It's the price you pay for war.
On the other hand I think the refinery in Mantua burning down is different. Usually the owner can protect a manu. Maybe the province will get looted one time (chance of manu burning very small), but he should send an army after that to kick his enemies out (or to crush the rebels). The problem with the army in Mantua is that it can not be attacked and never leaves. I can send armies to the province, but they will NOT attack the French army.
The only thing the French army in Mantua can do is loot and destroy manus. And it can be disbanded. That's it. It can't leave. It can't be attacked.
Of course we can decide that this case is no different than the case when a normal army loots the province. I will accept that of course.
Venice in the early 16th century - Venetian AAR 1500-1525
The early 16th century was a period of trouble for the Venetian Republic. In the first decade its vassal (the pope) was causing some trouble by founding the league of Cambrai against Venice. The Doge punished the pope by annexing his vassal, the duchy of Tuscany.
At first the Venetians considered this only a minor problem. The other countries involved were Austria and France. France was pretty weak at that time and the relationship between the Austrian government and the Venetians had always been good. The Venetians were confident enough at that time to turn down a NAP-proposal from the Sultan. It seems the Venetians expected the Turks to use it to crush either the Hungarians (the Venetians still considered them friends) or the Russians. An important decision and the consequences would soon be felt by all Venetians.
The Venetian confidence in the good relationship with Austria were a mistake. An agressive upstart had overthrown the rightful dukes and he soon plotted war against Venice. When it became clear what was going to happen the Venetian diplomats tried to prevent the attack by pointing out the longlasting friendship between the two countries, but to no avail.
The Austrian under their great general von Frundsberg soon attacked. The cities of Milan soon fell, but Istria managed to hold out till reinforcements arrived. Austria was soon attacked by its other neigbours (France, Spain, Brandenburg, Sweden all attacked). Von Frundsberg was called away to first dispose of the other attackers, letting Venice get the upper hand in the Austrian-Venetian war. After the successes against its other enemies the Austrians returned their armies to the Venetian frontier, but the main army with von Frundsberg was destroyed in eastern Switzerland after fleeing there after the great battle of Milan. A smaller army was destroyed near Genoa, leaving the Venetians save for a while....until the great evil alliance attacked.
OE, Hungary, France and Spain had united to attempt to crush the Venetian Republic.
The only glimp of hope at that time was the offer of peace from Austria. This meant that the Venetians had survived one attack and only (?) had four enemies left. The turkish armies soon attacked some eastern holdings and a small Spanish army invaded the Italian mainland. Hungary tried to take Dalmatia. The Spanish army destroyed and Spain soon offered peace. The turkish armies were too strong, but the Venetian fleet managed to keep them at bay. The Hungarians on the other hand were not so strong. A Venetian offensive came to the gates of Budapest, but then the turks started sending armies to help the Hungarians. Most of the captured provinces were soon recovered, but the Venetians held out. A small French army that landed on the Italian mainland caused more trouble than the Spanish one a few years earlier. They were of course beaten, but managed to hide in Mantua, where they yearly looted the area.
In 1525 the economy had taken a severe hit from the efforts to fight of all enemies, but there was hope. Peace with France was about to be signed, leaving only (?) two enemies to fight...
The early 16th century was a period of trouble for the Venetian Republic. In the first decade its vassal (the pope) was causing some trouble by founding the league of Cambrai against Venice. The Doge punished the pope by annexing his vassal, the duchy of Tuscany.
At first the Venetians considered this only a minor problem. The other countries involved were Austria and France. France was pretty weak at that time and the relationship between the Austrian government and the Venetians had always been good. The Venetians were confident enough at that time to turn down a NAP-proposal from the Sultan. It seems the Venetians expected the Turks to use it to crush either the Hungarians (the Venetians still considered them friends) or the Russians. An important decision and the consequences would soon be felt by all Venetians.
The Venetian confidence in the good relationship with Austria were a mistake. An agressive upstart had overthrown the rightful dukes and he soon plotted war against Venice. When it became clear what was going to happen the Venetian diplomats tried to prevent the attack by pointing out the longlasting friendship between the two countries, but to no avail.
The Austrian under their great general von Frundsberg soon attacked. The cities of Milan soon fell, but Istria managed to hold out till reinforcements arrived. Austria was soon attacked by its other neigbours (France, Spain, Brandenburg, Sweden all attacked). Von Frundsberg was called away to first dispose of the other attackers, letting Venice get the upper hand in the Austrian-Venetian war. After the successes against its other enemies the Austrians returned their armies to the Venetian frontier, but the main army with von Frundsberg was destroyed in eastern Switzerland after fleeing there after the great battle of Milan. A smaller army was destroyed near Genoa, leaving the Venetians save for a while....until the great evil alliance attacked.
OE, Hungary, France and Spain had united to attempt to crush the Venetian Republic.
The only glimp of hope at that time was the offer of peace from Austria. This meant that the Venetians had survived one attack and only (?) had four enemies left. The turkish armies soon attacked some eastern holdings and a small Spanish army invaded the Italian mainland. Hungary tried to take Dalmatia. The Spanish army destroyed and Spain soon offered peace. The turkish armies were too strong, but the Venetian fleet managed to keep them at bay. The Hungarians on the other hand were not so strong. A Venetian offensive came to the gates of Budapest, but then the turks started sending armies to help the Hungarians. Most of the captured provinces were soon recovered, but the Venetians held out. A small French army that landed on the Italian mainland caused more trouble than the Spanish one a few years earlier. They were of course beaten, but managed to hide in Mantua, where they yearly looted the area.
In 1525 the economy had taken a severe hit from the efforts to fight of all enemies, but there was hope. Peace with France was about to be signed, leaving only (?) two enemies to fight...
Wow something I have never seen, Venice by itself beating up a gangbang of 4 major nations
Well done Mioz
Well done Mioz
Dr Bob said:Wow something I have never seen, Venice by itself beating up a gangbang of 4 major nations
Well done Mioz
Well, the two that are out didn't send major armies. And the other two are stronger than me now....but I have far more WS