Introduction
Hello there! Given that the next update focuses on western Europe, the devs probably aren't considering doing much with regards to the Balkans, however I have an idea in terms of religion which I've been working on for a couple of months now (albeit with some hiatus), and I thought I might suggest it here. I'm talking of course about including a unique Christian sect which at the time was present in Bosnia: the Gnostic faith.
I have included this in another post in the past, but I've gone back, fine-tuned it, and will now present a more fleshed out and finalized version in this thread. As such, I would like to thank @Y.D. Dandy for giving me some ideas in that original post, many of which I have included here.
I'm not in the interest of starting a flamewar here, so I'm limiting this to mechanics for the most part and only to a specific region. I only wish to discuss history, and am not trying to be inflammatory with anything I suggest here. If I offend any of you (which despite my best efforts may still happen knowing the Balkans) I truly and sincerely apologize.
Historical Background
*disclaimer: the majority of this research pertains to the so-called "Bosnian Church" as it was the last remaining Gnostic denomination with any "sizable" following by 1444*
Before I begin, I would like to just acknowledge that sources describing the Bosnian Church are scarce, especially those which are not incredibly biased in favour of the mainstream Catholic dogma of the time. However, with the sources available to me, I have been able to conclude the following. However, if you have any more comprehensive sources then I would appreciate if you would send them so I can take a look and perhaps improve this suggestion.
Much of Bosnia's landscape (particularly in the south) is dominated by the mountain range known as the Dinaric Alps. In the medieval period, this resulted in Bosnia being relatively isolated from much of Europe. As such, the land developed a rather distinct religious identity from much of its surroundings; culminating in the appearance of the Bosnian Church.
Considered heretical both by Catholics and Orthodox, the Bosnian church constituted a unique blend of both traditions, as its adherents were positioned right in between the Orthodox and Catholic spheres of influence. Though frequently accused of practicing dualistic beliefs similar to those of the Cathars and Bogomils, they did not fit many of the criteria which would have qualified them as such. Bosnian Christians believed in the sign of the cross, mass, the use of churches, and the drinking of wine, all of which the Bogomils did not [1].
The Church however, did function largely independent of the other denominations. They utilised the Old Church Slavonic language to conduct sacred liturgy, the church was headed by a council of 12 and was general more decentralised, and the Bishop of Bosnia had been excommunicated by the Pope in 1234 [2].
At one point, the Papacy even called for a crusade against the Bosnian Church, which the Hungarian Kings took upon themselves to carry out from 1235-1241 [3]. Also, Franciscan missionaries were frequently sent as part of a Papal Inquisition in the area, establishing many convents and converting several locals [1]. As such, the Bosnian Kings frequently had to maintain a balance between the Bosnian and Catholic factions within their holdings [2].
The Bosnian Church would remain prominent in the area until the Ottoman invasion and subsequent conquest of Bosnia and Herzegovina [1], with the majority of its adherents converting to Islam under their rule [2].
Setup
With the aforementioned history in mind, some minor changes would need to be made to Bosnia in 1444, though nothing drastic. Bosnia would need to have its religion changed to Gnostic, and several of its provinces should have their religions changed to it as well. Since there were relatively few adherents to the religion in the game's timeframe, the only province I would suggest being converted would be the Bosnian capital of Visoki.
However, the religion could also be given a similar treatment to Zoroastrianism or Norse Paganism, which are included in the game albeit without any adherent countries and forming a majority only in one or two provinces. This would be a compromise in the case that it would not be viable to assign the religion to any provinces or countries.
[4]
Religion Mechanics
If Gnosticism were to be added, I believe it should receive some unique mechanics to illustrate its heretical nature.
First off, the associated modifiers would be as follows:
These are based largely off of those found for other heresies from CKII games imported into EUIV, (which can be found on the EUIV Wiki).
The first major unique mechanic for Gnosticism would be Divergence, and it would be represented through a slider similar to Patriarch Authority for Orthodox and Piety for Muslims. This slider would scale from 0% to 100% and would increase or decrease via events, with the player starting off at 50% Divergence. The purpose would be to represent the frequent shifts in orientation within Gnosticism (particularly in Bosnia), with Gnostics at times being closer to Rome, while at other times this was not so.
These modifiers would scale up and down as one moves along the spectrum, with 50% Divergence granting no modifiers. The modifiers would therefore reach their maximum values at either end of the slider. These modifiers would be as follows:
*Declaring war would have no effect on Divergence
The second mechanic for Gnostics would be the ability to select/change Rites. As I alluded to earlier, one of the ways in which the Bosnian Christians were different from mainstream Catholicism was their use of Old Church Slavonic as their liturgical language, which was more characteristic of Orthodox churches following the Byzantine Rite. However, churches following the Latin Rite (the one used by Roman Catholics) was still also found in Bosnia. Therefore, I would make it so that one can choose which Rite the church should follow under their leadership: Latin, Byzantine, or Slavonic.
These Rites could allow for the representation of other Gnostic sects as well; with Cathars following the Latin Rite by default, Paulicians following the Byzantine Rite, etc.
This feature would function similarly to Icons for Orthodox or Schools for Muslims, with a different Rite coinciding to each of the 3 types of monarch points(Latin=Administrative, Byzantine=Diplomatic, Slavonic=Military). The default Rite for Bosnia would be Slavonic, and one has the option to change which Rite they follow every 25 years by spending 100 of the specified monarch points for that Rite.
Each Rite would have one modifier affecting the associated monarch point type, plus an extra modifier that is half of another Christian religion's national affects (Latin=Catholic, Byzantine=Orthodox, Slavonic=Coptic (Coptic was the most fitting one I could find in-game as I had already used Orthodox for the Byzantine modifier)). These modifiers would be as follows:
Events
(Fires when the Ottomans have conquered Bosnia)
(can fire at any time)
*A list of further events will be added once I have finished revising and finalising them*
Closing/Sources
Thanks for reading my thread! Hopefully you liked my idea and if you have any more ideas/suggestions/constructive critiques then they are truly appreciated!
Hello there! Given that the next update focuses on western Europe, the devs probably aren't considering doing much with regards to the Balkans, however I have an idea in terms of religion which I've been working on for a couple of months now (albeit with some hiatus), and I thought I might suggest it here. I'm talking of course about including a unique Christian sect which at the time was present in Bosnia: the Gnostic faith.
I have included this in another post in the past, but I've gone back, fine-tuned it, and will now present a more fleshed out and finalized version in this thread. As such, I would like to thank @Y.D. Dandy for giving me some ideas in that original post, many of which I have included here.
I'm not in the interest of starting a flamewar here, so I'm limiting this to mechanics for the most part and only to a specific region. I only wish to discuss history, and am not trying to be inflammatory with anything I suggest here. If I offend any of you (which despite my best efforts may still happen knowing the Balkans) I truly and sincerely apologize.
Historical Background
*disclaimer: the majority of this research pertains to the so-called "Bosnian Church" as it was the last remaining Gnostic denomination with any "sizable" following by 1444*
Before I begin, I would like to just acknowledge that sources describing the Bosnian Church are scarce, especially those which are not incredibly biased in favour of the mainstream Catholic dogma of the time. However, with the sources available to me, I have been able to conclude the following. However, if you have any more comprehensive sources then I would appreciate if you would send them so I can take a look and perhaps improve this suggestion.
Much of Bosnia's landscape (particularly in the south) is dominated by the mountain range known as the Dinaric Alps. In the medieval period, this resulted in Bosnia being relatively isolated from much of Europe. As such, the land developed a rather distinct religious identity from much of its surroundings; culminating in the appearance of the Bosnian Church.
Considered heretical both by Catholics and Orthodox, the Bosnian church constituted a unique blend of both traditions, as its adherents were positioned right in between the Orthodox and Catholic spheres of influence. Though frequently accused of practicing dualistic beliefs similar to those of the Cathars and Bogomils, they did not fit many of the criteria which would have qualified them as such. Bosnian Christians believed in the sign of the cross, mass, the use of churches, and the drinking of wine, all of which the Bogomils did not [1].
The Church however, did function largely independent of the other denominations. They utilised the Old Church Slavonic language to conduct sacred liturgy, the church was headed by a council of 12 and was general more decentralised, and the Bishop of Bosnia had been excommunicated by the Pope in 1234 [2].
At one point, the Papacy even called for a crusade against the Bosnian Church, which the Hungarian Kings took upon themselves to carry out from 1235-1241 [3]. Also, Franciscan missionaries were frequently sent as part of a Papal Inquisition in the area, establishing many convents and converting several locals [1]. As such, the Bosnian Kings frequently had to maintain a balance between the Bosnian and Catholic factions within their holdings [2].
The Bosnian Church would remain prominent in the area until the Ottoman invasion and subsequent conquest of Bosnia and Herzegovina [1], with the majority of its adherents converting to Islam under their rule [2].
Setup
With the aforementioned history in mind, some minor changes would need to be made to Bosnia in 1444, though nothing drastic. Bosnia would need to have its religion changed to Gnostic, and several of its provinces should have their religions changed to it as well. Since there were relatively few adherents to the religion in the game's timeframe, the only province I would suggest being converted would be the Bosnian capital of Visoki.
However, the religion could also be given a similar treatment to Zoroastrianism or Norse Paganism, which are included in the game albeit without any adherent countries and forming a majority only in one or two provinces. This would be a compromise in the case that it would not be viable to assign the religion to any provinces or countries.
[4]
Religion Mechanics
If Gnosticism were to be added, I believe it should receive some unique mechanics to illustrate its heretical nature.
First off, the associated modifiers would be as follows:
National:
-Tolerance of Heretics +1
-Morale of Armies +10%
Provincial:
-Local Missionary Strength -2%
-Tolerance of Heretics +1
-Morale of Armies +10%
Provincial:
-Local Missionary Strength -2%
The first major unique mechanic for Gnosticism would be Divergence, and it would be represented through a slider similar to Patriarch Authority for Orthodox and Piety for Muslims. This slider would scale from 0% to 100% and would increase or decrease via events, with the player starting off at 50% Divergence. The purpose would be to represent the frequent shifts in orientation within Gnosticism (particularly in Bosnia), with Gnostics at times being closer to Rome, while at other times this was not so.
These modifiers would scale up and down as one moves along the spectrum, with 50% Divergence granting no modifiers. The modifiers would therefore reach their maximum values at either end of the slider. These modifiers would be as follows:
0% Divergence: Yearly Autonomy -0.5%, Advisor Cost -10%, Yearly Prestige +1
50% Divergence: No effect
100% Divergence: Missionary Strength +2%, Religious Unity +15%, Idea Cost -10%
50% Divergence: No effect
100% Divergence: Missionary Strength +2%, Religious Unity +15%, Idea Cost -10%
The second mechanic for Gnostics would be the ability to select/change Rites. As I alluded to earlier, one of the ways in which the Bosnian Christians were different from mainstream Catholicism was their use of Old Church Slavonic as their liturgical language, which was more characteristic of Orthodox churches following the Byzantine Rite. However, churches following the Latin Rite (the one used by Roman Catholics) was still also found in Bosnia. Therefore, I would make it so that one can choose which Rite the church should follow under their leadership: Latin, Byzantine, or Slavonic.
These Rites could allow for the representation of other Gnostic sects as well; with Cathars following the Latin Rite by default, Paulicians following the Byzantine Rite, etc.
This feature would function similarly to Icons for Orthodox or Schools for Muslims, with a different Rite coinciding to each of the 3 types of monarch points(Latin=Administrative, Byzantine=Diplomatic, Slavonic=Military). The default Rite for Bosnia would be Slavonic, and one has the option to change which Rite they follow every 25 years by spending 100 of the specified monarch points for that Rite.
Each Rite would have one modifier affecting the associated monarch point type, plus an extra modifier that is half of another Christian religion's national affects (Latin=Catholic, Byzantine=Orthodox, Slavonic=Coptic (Coptic was the most fitting one I could find in-game as I had already used Orthodox for the Byzantine modifier)). These modifiers would be as follows:
Latin (Admin): Possible Advisors +1, Tolerance of the True Faith +0.5
Byzantine (Diplo): Diplomatic Reputation +1, Stability Cost -5%
Slavonic (Military): National Unrest -2, Fort Defense +5%
Byzantine (Diplo): Diplomatic Reputation +1, Stability Cost -5%
Slavonic (Military): National Unrest -2, Fort Defense +5%
Events
Ottomans:
-Excellent! (Gain +5% missionary strength in all Gnostic provinces)
-Excellent! (Gain +5% missionary strength in all Gnostic provinces)
Bosnia:
-Keep the tradition alive! (Gain +2.5% Divergence)
-A shack is not fit for our God! (Gain -2.5% Divergence)
-Keep the tradition alive! (Gain +2.5% Divergence)
-A shack is not fit for our God! (Gain -2.5% Divergence)
*A list of further events will be added once I have finished revising and finalising them*
Closing/Sources
Thanks for reading my thread! Hopefully you liked my idea and if you have any more ideas/suggestions/constructive critiques then they are truly appreciated!
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