The Genoese Emporer

[unmerged(6159)]

The Genoese Emperor/HRE testing

I've been lurking here for about 6 months - thought it was time I made a contribution. I've been finding myself less interested in the AARs recently, I suppose it's because most everything has already been done. So I thought I'd contribute a different type of AAR.

One of the recent AARs that I really enjoyed was that of ryoken69 where he set out to show how the game can be exploited, discussed his plans and described the outcomes. I'm going to copy that style, and hopefully demonstrate an aspect of the game that can be exploited to get an outcome that is totally unrealistic historically. I'm doing this more for amusement than for anything else - I have no agenda, and I think this is the best game out there and for 6 months the CD hasn't left my drive. I'm not even all that excited about the sequel because I have so much yet to do with the original.

Anyway the inspiration for what feature of the game came from a comment by BiB in one of the HRE threads, about how many VPs can be accumulated if Venice becomes HRE. They get a new doge every 5 years or so, and once you're elected you pretty much stay elected. Well Venice seems a bit simple to me, they are a serious power, but I figure that Genoa has a similar situation, being a republic with doges dying pretty regularly. The pope would also have the same effect, but that just seemed too hard. Genoa gets its own COT, which makes it significantly less poor than the papal states. (Although the pope as emporer might be more unreal). So I've decided to see if I can make a Genoese Emporer, and see how many VPs I can accumulate. This is seriously out of step with real life in that as a republic it would not have been possible for a doge (who wasn't even a real noble in the scheme of things, just a merchant) to be elected. In real life only the Austrian and Bavarian rulers were elected to the imperial throne between 1492 and 1792.

Now I'm sure most people are thinking that this isn't really such a hard objective. There are certainly AARs out there in which people have taken Genoa to be a major Europen power, it's probably easiest to get in Spains alliance and sneak Nice and parts of France before turning on Italy (the COT helps here). Once you rule most of Italy you can throw money around and get elected. But this wouldn't be so ahistoric, a Genoa that ruled most of Italy would no longer be a small merchant republic and might have enough clout to rule the Empire. So I am going to do it peacefully - I will not expand in Europe beyond Genoa and Corsica. I want to see if it can be done, and where I will be able to finish VP-wise.

I've played about 8 campaign games, 7 of which are GC and one of which I finished. This is my first IGC. Too much to do with the GC until now, but I wanted the vassalage start for Genoa. Options - Hard, aggressive. Standard IGC settings plus TO Ingermanland (always preferred that solution), Austrian Netherlands (trying to help them out, plus more historic, and I love the Dutch revolt). All majors with Genoa replacing Portugal. Random Events On, Missions on (to further handicap me - the AI will get mission points and I will struggle to get mine).

My house rules for this game are (should help make it more difficult)
-Only one loan offer per country per year, and only one loan outstanding per country. I plan to use loans, because I have very few otyher tools, and this seems like a reasonable limitation that is pretty historic and means I won't be able to abuse the system.
-One map trade per country for the whole game. I can give maps to any country whenever I like, but I must know every single province they know, so I get nothing in return. Again I figure I should have the chance to expand colonially, but should not be able to cheat the system by becoming Europes map broker. I will have to time my map trades very carefully.
-No reloads. Ever.
-No annexation of any province. Ever. War or diplo. Vassalization is of OK.
-No DOW without a CB. I reserve the right to fight a map war if I can get a CB, but I will have to get the maps in a naval fight, no jumping Tago or Castille.
-No pinning. It's just cheap. I don't plan to fight any wars but if Ido I will not take advantage of the most glaring AI deficiency.

General plan
Getting elected requires being Catholic, and having the best average relations with all states in the HRE. Generally the protestants hate all Catholics, so it's the Catholic states that count. There are 10 states in the HRE that stay Catholic: Austria, Baden, Bavaria, Cologne, Genoa, Lorraine, Milan, Modena, Savoy, and Tuscany. Of these the Italian states (Genoa, Milan, Modena, Savoy, and Tuscany) leave the Empire in the seventeenth century. France has a CB on Lorraine which means that it will attack and usually swallow Lorraine, negating its vote. Austria has multiple CBs and will be in wars. However the other three, the BBC (Baden, Bavaria, Cologne), have no CBs, so are generally peaceful. If I can get a big advantage with them (as opposed to Spain and Austria) I should have a decent chance of being elected. So my plan is to ally with the BBC and RM them and everyone else as often as possible. By keeping them in my purely peaceful alliance I will be able to keep them out of wars and annexation, and ensure that they and their votes survive. I will use loans and as much colonial activity as I can to generate income which eventually will be used to bribe everyone else.

Status 1492
Stability +2, 246d, 0% inflation, annual income 10, monthly income 3.6.
Vassal of Milan
Alliance Tuscany, Modena, Knights
2 merchants in Andalusia, 3 in Genoa, 1 in Thrace
Goals for the next 10 years:
1) ally with BBC
2) get merchants in place to give me a reasonable income
3) map swap to get maps from Portugal or Spain while I still can. This will allow me to colonize later (hopefully)
4) start the loaning process
5)RM like crazy

 

[Yozhik]

Speaking of AI getting points like crazy for missions... does it actually do any of them? It never does in my games

Looking forward to seeing your AAR unfold from century to century.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

I have not proven that the AI does missions, or that the missions affect its behaviour, but the AI certainly gets a lot of victory points from them (typically several hundred by the end of the game). At a guss I think only major powers get missions. Anyway, my first progress....

1492-1502

I set all research to trade. I'll just use neighbour bonuses and monarch skills to keep up in the rest.

I spend 1492 sending out merchants, using up much of my initial cash. I establish a monopoly in Genoa, which I know will not last but allows me to generate some cash. I duly lose the monopoly in 1495 after 3 years and make no attempt to regain it. For the rest of this decade I am periodically sending out merchants taking advantage of my level 4 trade tech.

With my first diplomat in May 1492 I trade maps with Morocco, Oman, Crimea, Sibir, and Sweden. Several other trades fail in particular Persia and Russia, so I will never be able to get their maps. This gives me maps that I hope to trade with one of the big boys (Portugal, Spain). In 1497 I fail to trade maps with Portugal, and a 1500 map trade with Spain fails leaving me with few options for maps. I go for the easier trade with England, which succeeds. I now have a map of most of the sea areas on the East coast of North America down to the Northern coasts of Hispaniola and Cuba. Also a few provinces, Placentia, Manhattan, Roanoke, and Seminole. These should come in handy, but I will only be able to trade with France and Holland of the exploring countries. And possibly Turkey, although I expect they will hate me by the time they know anything useful (I will need to keep all German religious tolerances as high as possible).

I also use my first diplomat (who's pretty busy with map trades and such, I have to admit) to loan to France and Spain. Further loans are rotated generally between 11 and 20d for 12 months at 4%. Not great but a start.

I also disband my transports to reduce costs and hopefully speed my naval research. Doesn't seem to hep much.

In October 1492 I leave my alliance and ally with Bavaria and Cologne. Unfortunately in May Baden had allied with Austria, Lorraine and Hungary among others. Ugh! At the end of 1492 the Austrian alliance goes to war with France, which leads to the annexation of Lorraine early in 1493. I fear for my future friends in Baden, but spend my diplomats making marriages. In 1494 France pay 10d to Baden to my relief and I manage to RM Bavaria with no gifts which puts the relationship at a nice +60. Piece of cake to improve from there. In 1495, Pommerania mysteriously DOWs Navarre, Austrias ally, and Baden dishonors the alliance. I immediately ally with them, accomplishing my main goal of the decade. In 1496 I send a letter to Baden followed by another in 1497, which allows me to RM with them too. Now only Cologne remains to RM.

I have done nothing about my vassalge to Milan with the expectation that they will be annexed and I will be freed. As Milan is stuck in the Spanish alliance they get the following (very frustrating) sequence of events:
1496 Milan captured by Austria, pays 177d
1496 Milan captured by Baden, pays 84d
1499 Milan captured by Pope, pays 93d
1500 Milan captured by Savoy, pays 39d
1500 Milan captured by France, France annexes
Milan was under siege for about 5 years continuously. I am freed of my vassalage, a big relief, but my income seems unaffected. As I'd also been able to RM freely I wonder if there isn't a problem with the game.

The other interesting sequence of events in this period is the following:
1494 Turkey annexes the Mamelukes.
1498 Hungary annexes Moldovia
1499 Venice cedes Illyria to Turkey
1501 Turkey annexes Hungary
Turkey is the big bad boy, and doing better than I've ever seen it do.

Evaluation: Off to a very good start. The BBC alliance is set up and RMed, except Cologne, I have a good merchant volume in place, my map swap was alright, if not great, and loans of 1-20 are being turned over annually.

1502 Status:
Stability +2 (stability -1 event), 84d, annual income 11d, monthly income 14.9 d, 2% inflation.
Alliance BBC, 17 RMs

Goals for the next 10 years
1) RM Cologne
2) Increase loan income
3) RM like crazy

 

[Storey]

How successful is your loan program? I have given up on trying to loan money simply because of the numerous attempts it takes to get a country to accept a loan. It finally gets to boring.

Joe

 

[Carolus Rex]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock


Status 1492
Stability +2, 246d, 0% inflation,

Awwww the memories.
Seems as if I'm not the only one that enjoys Genoa.

 

[Vulture]

The man plays/will play it better methinks...

You heard me Isaac? Read the Carolus Rex Crazy Genoa AAR to have an example of how the game SHOULD NOT be played

 

[Estonianzulu]

Or my poor Prussian AAR, anyway interesting, I like your self imposed rules, I'd try those but I'd end up braking them.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Storey: My loans are going OK. At this point my annual loan income is 2-3d, which doesn't sound like much, but makes a decent difference for Genoa. My approach is to offer small loans at low interest, renew them once or twice and then try to increase the size or interest rate. Mostly successful. I've increased the length of the loans because it was too mcuh of a pain to renew them every year and the AI seems to take bigger loans if the term is longer. Not overwhelmingly successful, but doing OK. I don't have a whole lot else to do!

By the way liked your 4 way AAR a lot. Very nice.

Carolus: Read most of your Genoese AAR. Lately I haven't kept up. I'll end up with a fair amount of inflation, but it should look different.

Vulture: I'm not so sure it's played _better_. I'm trying to make the game engine do something ridiculous in any possible history, by taking advantage of the way it's set up. So it's different, but I'm not so sure it's better. I think I have about the same chance of winning on VPs.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

1502-1512

I start out in 1502 by sending a letter to Cologne raising relations from 21-27. Baden was better than this. In March 1508 I renew my alliance with BBC raising relations all around. I follow this with an attempt to RM with Cologne. The Archbishop says no. I end up spending much of this period making royal marriages with kingdoms and duchies and such (including arch-rival the republic of Venice), rather than the archbishopric. I avoid making marriages with German HRE states that will turn protestant as I don't want the relations hit of having them break the marriage when they convert.

In February 1502 I disband 6000 of my 9000 troops, hoping that this will speed up my land research. It makes no noticeable difference, but at least I cut down my maintenance. Shortly thereafter, the newly annexed Milan rebels against France and the rebels take the city. France, temporarily at peace cannot send troops, and to my horror the rebels march on Genoa, attacking in July 1503. My maintenance is at 50%, and despite being in mountains defending the line of the Po river my troops are outnumber by about 20,000 to 3,000. They beat a hasty retreat to the Genoese fleet and are carried to Corsica, where I recruit 3,000 infantry. I'm thinking that I'll let attrition take out most of the rebels, and possibly let them take Genoa and take it back once they move on. Of course, I fail to notice the BIG flaw in this approach - Genoa is my capital, and if it falls so will my government causing stability collapse and all sorts of other problems. In March 1505 with the city walls at -4, I realize my mistake and return with my 5,000/1,000 army to take on 12,000 rebels. I did not want to take out a loan that I couldn't repay, and bankruptcy would hurt me in all sorts of ways. I decided that I'd trust in my soldiers, even though this time it's me who is attacking across water and into the mountains, as I'm landing from the ships. However, being at full morale makes a big difference, and I break the siege with a loss of 1,000 men. The loss of 2 years worth of income from Genoa affects my ability to do much beyond making RMs for this decade.

As I have already set up a profitable merchant network I send no Merchants for the entire 10 years. On the other hand, not one of my merchants is competed away. I'm now making most of my loans at 4-5% for 1 year, with about one half below 10 and one half between 10 and 20. I generally have 2 or 3 outstanding at a time. Not great, but a decent supplement to my income. By the end of the decade I have managed to promote bailiffs in both of my provinces.

In the rest of Europe Turkey continues to do well, annexing Ragusa and taking Istria, while the Teutonic Order takes Nyland from the Swedes, and Austria gets access to the ocean by annexing Holstein. BB points for Austria can only help me win an election in the end.

Evaluation: Not nearly as successful as the previous decade. I?m not managing to loan out more money, and haven?t married with Cologne.

Status 1512:
stability +3, treasury 59d, inflation 5%, annual income 15d, monthly income 15.2 d
alliance BBC, 25 RMs

Goals for the next decade:
1) RM Cologne
2) Increase loan amounts or interest
3) RM the remainder of Europe (mostly complete)

 

[Storey]

I've always stayed away from disbanding troops because of the cost of replacing them and wanting to be able to grab an opportunity to expand when fate allowed me to. However since your trying a completely different approach I can see why you disbanded most of your troops. You simply had the rotten luck of a country bordering Genoa rebelling. Ever notice how when that happens the rebels 9 times out of ten march on one of your provinces and not someone else's? Keep going although I think you've got a difficult task ahead of you.

Joe

 

[Sharur]

Very interesting idea, and a good job so far. Being such a peace-lover, you should have any easy time accomplishing your objective after you build up the economic base to pay the electors Of course, even w/o doing that you can always just keep both Catholic and Protestant tolerances at full.

One priority I would set up if I were you is building your forts to max size ASAP, since you most likely won't have much of an army at any time.

 

[Lord Durham]

Isaac Brock posted:
RM the remainder of Europe (mostly complete)

Hope they're not all females you're marrying off. You'll be broke from hosting the weddings, let alone running the country.

Nice change of pace for an AAR. Good luck with it. BTW, I've been to your statue several times.

 

[Carolus Rex]

Really nice writing!
Hope you do well in the next update.

 

[unmerged(3748)]

Very enjoyable writing, and i admire your ability to set yourself some rules and abide by them... whenever i try something like that, i end up breaking them before 1500

 

[unmerged(6015)]

very good, i hope you keep on going

 

[Petrarca]

Awwww the memories.

Good luck. Genoa is one of the most fun countries to play.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Thanks for all the support. I have some specific responses. For Sharur, I'm obviously playing a peace loving game and keeping my tolerances at 100%, but it turns out it's going to take a lot of bribing too. I haven't played Austria, maybe they get an advantage? For Lord Durham, gotta love that statue. Slightly overblown, but less overstated than everything else in the area.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

1512-1522

In May 1512 I send a letter to Cologne, increasing relations from 45-47. They are still not as receptive as I'd like. In July 1517 I get the 'Royal Marriage with Cologne' mission, which is the first mission I've received that it would make sense for me to do and wasn't 'keep Genoa'. As a result I postpone further marriage attempts (I want to let this one last as long as possible before I get a new impossible mission). I send two letters to Navarre before marrying (just because I could). In March 1518 I renew my alliance with BBC which puts my relation with the Archbishopric of Cologne at 68. In October 1519 I renew my marriage with Bavaria, putting our relations at 110. Finally in November 1521 I send a last letter to Cologne (68-76, finally a little success) and in December achieve the marriage.

In January 1519 Charles V of Austria (or perhaps of Ghent?) is elected emperor. Drat! I'm nowhere near competing for votes at this point, but the ongoing reformation (which arrived in 1514) should change that by the time of the next election. I doubt I'll win it, but I ought to be competitive. With the reformation I increase my Moslem tolerance to 100%, by setting Protestant to 0. This will change when the Germans start converting.

In October 1512 A conquistador, Colonel Corelli arrives in Genoa with 1000 men, and a colonist. My English maps give me only a few options on where to send him - The Spanish have a TP in Seminole, and I have no intention of wasting the conquistador and colonist in Newfoundland. This leaves Manhattan and Roanoke, or and unexplored shore. I'm expecting a lot of attrition in getting to America, so I decide to land him in Manhattan. Isle Royale, with it's population bug is very tempting, but would leave my army stranded until I could send a second fleet to remove it. I send 3 warships to carry Corelli to Manhattan (I disbanded my transports, ack!). Two ships are left when he lands with 650 men, and neither ship make it home to Genoa, the last one sinking in the Gulf of Lyons. Corelli slaughters the natives in Manhattan (I can't afford a failure, and have no further colonists to get Manhattan to city stage). I send a colonist and have a colony by April 1517. In the meantime Corelli marches north, arriving in Hurone in October 1516 and picking up the cheap VPs for discovering the Great Lakes. I then send Corelli north-east towards Kebec. No cheap points for this however, and with a much weakened force Corelli returns to the colony of Manhattan. However, his discoveries have given me more provinces to bargain with in future map trades (whether with France, Turkey, or a minor that has stolen maps of one of the other powers). He dies an accomplished man in Manhattan in October 1525. Andrea Doria shows up in Genoa in January 1520, too late to be used to carry Corelli to America. He is a very good Admiral, but I don't think I can afford a map war, so I suspect he will be largely idle.

In another very lucky random event I get a Naval Manufactory in Genoa in May 1519. I'm still at 100% trade, and reached level 5 in July 1520. The naval manufactory will help me get to level 16 (shipyards) a little sooner, not to mention contributing the 6d per year. I might have preferred it in Corsica, which has naval supplies, but this is a very helpful event.

My loan program has largely stalled. I'm increasing my terms to 36 months, as this allows me to improve the other terms, but I'm still stalled at 4-5% and 10-20d. Worse yet I can expect England, one of my better customers to convert to Protestantism soon, at which point it will be a while before it will be a good customer again.

Evaluation:
I finally have the RM with Cologne. Other then that not much happened - I got lucky with a couple of random events, and the colony in Manhattan should be useful later on.


1522 status: stability +3, 115 ducats, inflation 7%. Annual Income 15d, Monthly 20.2
Alliance BBC relations-106, 110, 91
25 merchants in place, VPs battle -3, diplomacy 145, discoveries 21, economy 47, establishments 1, missions -64

Goals for the next 10 years
1) improve the loan program
2) maintain RMs

 

[Storey]

Re: 1512-1522

Originally posted by Isaac Brock

My loan program has largely stalled. I'm increasing my terms to 36 months, as this allows me to improve the other terms, but I'm still stalled at 4-5% and 10-20d. Worse yet I can expect England, one of my better customers to convert to Protestantism soon, at which point it will be a while before it will be a good customer again.

Goals for the next 10 years
1) improve the loan program
2) maintain RMs

The hassle in getting other countries to accept loans is what finally caused me to abandon the practice. However in your case it probably is necessary to continue. Can you post the current relations (numbers) with the countries around you? The main danger in the long run is the same for all small countries especially ones that have limited growth potential, inflation! Watch out!

Joe

 

[Barkdreg]

It really should be Charles V of Ghent. The man was born in this beautiful city. Some of the most important historical figures of the world are born in Ghent. Charles V and me.
Oh and don't you ever believe those rumors that Charles V was born in the village of Eeklo near Ghent. I tell he wasn't. All things important hail from Ghent.
Repeat after me: Ghent independent!

Nice AAR! I really like what you're doing.