The 'Genghis Khan' decision shouldn't be exclusively for Mongols

[Kansai-kun]

A while ago, I started a Stamford Bridge game as the Khitan and took ever most of the steppes in the first hundred years. My empire spanned from Mongolia in the east to the borders of the Rus in the west and the Caucasus in the south.

Then the Mongols attacked. And here's the problem: Where do they come from? Why is there still a guy named Temujin with such a large host regardless of how the situation in the steppes actually looks like?
Historically, Temujin largest rival were the Kara Khitai, already weakened by past wars. But when there's a Khitan (or maybe even an Uyghur) empire encompassing most of the steppes (including part of Mongolia), should there still be a Mongol Empire steamrolling everything?

Now notice, that won't happen for a Mongol player. Start as a Mongol character, get enough land and prestige and you can basically circumvent the Mongol Invasion. But start as an Uyghur or a Khitan (the latter were actually related to the Mongols) and you're toast.

So here's my suggestion: The 'Genghis Khan' decision should be altered, so that it can be also enacted by the eastern nomadic tribes. Maybe make it an extra requirement for them to own k_mongolia, representing them reaching east and subjugating the Mongol tribes, including Temujin's. Add some culture-based localisation for the Mongol Empire - if formed by a Khitan, it could for example use the dynasty name. If formed by an Uyghur, it could be the Uyghur Empire.

It certainly would make the events in the steppes less deterministic.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

I disagree. Its like allow muslims to create the HRE.

 

[Kansai-kun]

I disagree. Its like allow muslims to create the HRE.

Yeah, because forming a steppe empire is exactly the same as crowning yourself Roman Emperor with the backing of the Pope.

 

[BrandNewIain]

Honestly it's more like allowing Germania to exist if the HRE exists
Or allowing the HRE to form if the restored Roman Empire exists

 

[ep1kfail]

By the logic of the people disagreeing, it would be that not even the mongols should be able to form khan of khans. If some small mongol tribe over here on the western edge of the can conquer a couple of places to make the kingdom, and that completely negates the rest of mongolia where Temuijin comes from, then why can't khitan who were the original major enemy and obstacle of the mongols not do the same?

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

Yeah, because forming a steppe empire is exactly the same as crowning yourself Roman Emperor with the backing of the Pope.

You are creating a mongol empire without being mongol and crowned yourself as a great khan in mongol language.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

By the logic of the people disagreeing, it would be that not even the mongols should be able to form khan of khans. If some small mongol tribe over here on the western edge of the can conquer a couple of places to make the kingdom, and that completely negates the rest of mongolia where Temuijin comes from, then why can't khitan who were the original major enemy and obstacle of the mongols not do the same?

The khitan arent mongol so no mongol empire so no genghis khan.

 

[Kansai-kun]

You are creating a mongol empire without being mongol and crowned yourself as a great khan in mongol language.

Seems like you overlooked an essential part of my post there:

So here's my suggestion: The 'Genghis Khan' decision should be altered, so that it can be also enacted by the eastern nomadic tribes. Maybe make it an extra requirement for them to own k_mongolia, representing them reaching east and subjugating the Mongol tribes, including Temujin's. Add some culture-based localisation for the Mongol Empire - if formed by a Khitan, it could for example use the dynasty name. If formed by an Uyghur, it could be the Uyghur Empire.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

Seems like you overlooked an essential part of my post there:

. Well the only problem that I see now is that Genghis Khan is mongol language. Do you have an idea of a name for the desicion if you are not mongol.

 

[Zooboss]

. Well the only problem that I see now is that Genghis Khan is mongol language. Do you have an idea of a name for the desicion if you are not mongol.

Become Khan of Khans. Become The Great Khan. We already have Khan and Khagan for (all?) nomads, surely we can borrow it some more for the decision

 

[DàbiànLājīdàrén]

You're under the impression that the Mongols would have somehow lost had they faced the Khitans at their height of power, yet by the time the Mongols headed further west they had already annihilated the Jurchens of the Jin Dynasty who had originally forced the Khitans out of China.

 

[BrandNewIain]

The issue is that logically Genghis's empire would fill the same space as the Khitans
If it's possible for a Mongol player to unite the steppes before Genghis Khan then it should be possible for other nomads, especially when they're from the same area
It's hard to take the event message seriously that a crazy new guy has united the nomads of Mongolia when you're sitting in Western Mongolia with your vast empire

At the very least he should get vastly less troops, but skipping him entirely seems more reasonable

EDIT: Fixed spelling error in "steppes"

 

[DeathBurst]

Agreed, and a little bump for more visibility.

 

[CompactDisc]

I agree with this post, please take this into consideration Paradox!

 

[Jia Xu]

I think this is a really bad idea. I've noticed big steppe blobs forming up quite often and it would be very easy for them to take the decision in every game. We would never actually see the Mongols again if non-Mongols could become Genghis Khan.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

I think this is a really bad idea. I've noticed big steppe blobs forming up quite often and it would be very easy for them to take the decision in every game. We would never actually see the Mongols again if non-Mongols could become Genghis Khan.

I think this is a really bad idea. I've noticed big steppe blobs forming up quite often and it would be very easy for them to take the decision in every game. We would never actually see the Mongols again if non-Mongols could become Genghis Khan.

This!

 

[DeathBurst]

Well, you have a point, but it doesn't solve the problem that huge armies shouldn't pop out of nowhere if you control all the surrounding areas...

 

[BrandNewIain]

If a nomad empire is able to reach the point where it can control the steppes before the mongols spawn then they already fulfil the same purpose as the mongol empire would in game, there would be no reason to give Genghis Khan 100k troops that logically shouldn't exist as there's already a nomad empire harassing Eastern Europe and so the mongol empire would never exist

There's already plenty of things that happened historically but are either impossible or unlikely to happen in game, the Fourth Crusade being a major example meaning the Byzantines never fail
Saying that the Mongols should be the exception to that, and always spawn with their unfair troops, is kinda silly

If anything I'd be glad to see non-Mongols unite the steppe more often just so I don't have to deal with the fact that Genghis Khan doesn't follow the rules of the game with regards to attrition