The game should provide example & historical templates for Divisions

[Riekopo]

It would be really nice if the game provided example templates for every type of unit in the Division designer somewhere. For example for Infantry, Motorized Infantry, Light Tank, Heavy Tank, Tank Destroyer, Self Propelled Artillery, etc. There could maybe be two versions. A small width version and a wide width version. Division design is easily the most complex and complicated thing for newcomers about this game I think.

And it would also be nice if it provided historical templates throughout the entire war for at least the major nations. They wouldn't be 100% correct because we can't change exact manpower and equipment numbers and are limited to 5 Support Companies, but they could be close. I think a lot of people would use historical Divisions. By the way, I personally would like to be able to edit exact manpower and equipment numbers and have more than 5 Support Companies in order to be able to create historical Divisions.

There was a certain YouTube channel (Military History Visualized) that made 2 videos about this years ago. But that stopped in 2016 I think. That would be a good channel to sponsor to make more videos about HOI4 I think.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

Could come with the Rework for the Army. But when we all don´t know.

 

[Fulmen]

It'd be something to at least get historical templates for 1936. They don't have to be 100% accurate, as often IRL similar units of the same nation varied a little in composition, and there were many smaller units which the game sometime combines into larger templates, or omits entirely which I don't agree with, but currently no nation starts with e.g. line artillery in their divisions, which is simply not historical.

 

[noobermenschen]

It would be really nice if the game provided example templates for every type of unit in the Division designer somewhere. For example for Infantry, Motorized Infantry, Light Tank, Heavy Tank, Tank Destroyer, Self Propelled Artillery, etc. There could maybe be two versions. A small width version and a wide width version. Division design is easily the most complex and complicated thing for newcomers about this game I think.

And it would also be nice if it provided historical templates throughout the entire war for at least the major nations. They wouldn't be 100% correct because we can't change exact manpower and equipment numbers and are limited to 5 Support Companies, but they could be close. I think a lot of people would use historical Divisions. By the way, I personally would like to be able to edit exact manpower and equipment numbers and have more than 5 Support Companies in order to be able to create historical Divisions.

There was a certain YouTube channel (Military History Visualized) that made 2 videos about this years ago. But that stopped in 2016 I think. That would be a good channel to sponsor to make more videos about HOI4 I think.

1) This actually sounds like a great project for the players to lay out on the forum or the Wiki.

2) No matter how many historical templates the Devs put in the actual game some ridiculous pedant is going to post a bitch thread stating their gaming experience and indeed their life are ruined because 6th Pz division was differently organized than the others in 1940 (actually all 10 Panzer divisions differed slightly from one another in 1940) or 216th Infanterie was raised in Wave XIII but follows a template from Wave VII etc. etc.

Of course every nation's division organization developed during the war and some armies (especially the German) could get a bit confusing.

 

[Simon_9732495]

1) This actually sounds like a great project for the players to lay out on the forum or the Wiki.

For reference:
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Historical_divisions

 

[Meglok]

Just go online and look if you want to know actual division designs. George Nafziger has done probably the most complete work in this area. You can access his work in the CARL digital library. Just Google his name.

 

[Angelis]

Also @Shaka of Carthage made some efforts in this regard some time ago:

Historical Divisions - Germany

Historical Divisions - Japan

Historical Divisions - UK and Commonwealth

Historical Divisions - France

 

[Zauberelefant]

And there still is the issue that what exactly constitutes a historical division is contested.

Without repeating the argument, would we rather count equipment or units? How Important is manpower count? There are parallel and apparently valid alternatives that see a 1939 wave 1 German infantry division as either 9xINF/1xART/1-2xAT/1xAA or
9xINF/4xART/1xAT/1xAA
plus supports, and anything in between.

Then there's corps/army units - integrate those into Standard divisions, because the game incentivizes it? Leave them Independent?

 

[GSP Jr]

I hate the way you need a new template for every little unit variation, when in reality, a division has both a ToE (template if you will) and may also have extra smaller units attached (permanently or temporarily) to complete a task. I want both when land warfare is updated.

Should PDX supply them? Would be good for beginners or casual players, but I'll wager most in this discussion already have pretty good idea how to build the 101st Airborne, Hell on Wheels, or Das Reich if the game had all the proper pieces.

Would the AI be able to work with a more complicated division build/deploy flow?

In a strategic level game is battalion level going too far, maybe all countries should just get coockie-cutter generic divisions in the name of 'game balance'.

 

[him_15]

nice idea.

 

[noobermenschen]

In a strategic level game is battalion level going too far, maybe all countries should just get coockie-cutter generic divisions in the name of 'game balance'.

You should try Hoi2, which uses those divisions. They can upgrade, and you can add a brigade on if you like. That game was cutting edge rock 'n roll fifteen years ago and you can catch it on sale for a couple of bucks on Steam.

 

[GSP Jr]

You should try Hoi2, which uses those divisions. They can upgrade, and you can add a brigade on if you like. That game was cutting edge rock 'n roll fifteen years ago and you can catch it on sale for a couple of bucks on Steam.

I wasn't really serious about wanting to go back to 2, just kinda throwing it out there for discussion, but thanks for the tip.

 

[Bki]

In a strategic level game is battalion level going too far, maybe all countries should just get coockie-cutter generic divisions in the name of 'game balance'.

Going down to battalion level in the division designer is not an issue per se, imo, since after all unless you're building 1-battalion "division" it's not the level that you're operating on the map. (And to be honest, battalion or at least regimental level would be the way to go to represent the pacific theater well).

That being said, I feel that not much would be lost by having Regiments + regimental support + divisional support instead for the division designer. Also, all the various non Art/AA/AT support companies ultimately do is that signals company, recon companies, hospitals, and other support units that were present in every single division type of almost every belligerent, are in game niche options. So abstracting them into a "divisional HQ" unit which would give various bonus depending on tech would have been much better.

 

[Zauberelefant]

Going down to battalion level in the division designer is not an issue per se, imo, since after all unless you're building 1-battalion "division" it's not the level that you're operating on the map. (And to be honest, battalion or at least regimental level would be the way to go to represent the pacific theater well).

That being said, I feel that not much would be lost by having Regiments + regimental support + divisional support instead for the division designer. Also, all the various non Art/AA/AT support companies ultimately do is that signals company, recon companies, hospitals, and other support units that were present in every single division type of almost every belligerent, are in game niche options. So abstracting them into a "divisional HQ" unit which would give various bonus depending on tech would have been much better.

I feel that the hoi3 system was working quite well, if you allow for the battleplanner to integrate Independent brigades temporarily, I would be very happy.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

Yep with the Templates you are right. I try to change the Templates to make the Devisions in the near to historical (not 100%, because historical there were to many Failures) with the correct support Buildup.

The Buildup is overtaken from Hoi 2 / 3 with many improvements, which hopefully get some modernization with the new R & D-System.