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Soapy Frog

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Hmmm, in my first test game as the Germans this evening (1939 scenario), I nailed Poland in 10 days and then attacked France Oct. 2nd, '39 and Vichied it on Oct. 7th, '39. A 5 day campaign... By the 10th I was done mopping up Belgium, Netherlands, and Denmark. All three of them lasted longer than France.

Doesn't bode well for the AI. Granted I'm on normal but still.
 

L G

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Soapy, i beg of you to please try the hardest levels and tell us what you got. i personally would like to see the results as i bet would others posting on this thread:cool:
 

BiB

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Originally posted by Soapy Frog
Hmmm, in my first test game as the Germans this evening (1939 scenario), I nailed Poland in 10 days and then attacked France Oct. 2nd, '39 and Vichied it on Oct. 7th, '39. A 5 day campaign... By the 10th I was done mopping up Belgium, Netherlands, and Denmark. All three of them lasted longer than France.

Doesn't bode well for the AI. Granted I'm on normal but still.

Ur hardly testing the ai when u win as the nation against nations u are supposed to sweep up.
 

Soapy Frog

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But 5 days? Against France? In Oct. '39?

Historically it took 6 weeks, the campaign started in May '40, and everything that could possibly go right for the Germans went right.

The historical result should be something to aspire to, not something to trivially surpass by an order of magnitude...

Well, I will pump the difficulty to maximum, and try again.
 

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BTW, part of the problem is that strategic redeployment is too rapid. It was quite simple for me to have my troops in position to attack France just a few days after I entrained them from Poland (though I waited some time for no good reason, I could have attacked France starting Sept. 16th).

Historically The Germans were not ready to commence operations until Nov. '39, and even then the generals stalled because they knew they need more time and better weather.

And indeed, any other WW2 game I have played, it usually takes 2-4 months to redeploy the army from east to west in preparation for the battle of France.
 

BiB

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Originally posted by Soapy Frog
BTW, part of the problem is that strategic redeployment is too rapid. It was quite simple for me to have my troops in position to attack France just a few days after I entrained them from Poland (though I waited some time for no good reason, I could have attacked France starting Sept. 16th).

Historically The Germans were not ready to commence operations until Nov. '39, and even then the generals stalled because they knew they need more time and better weather.

And indeed, any other WW2 game I have played, it usually takes 2-4 months to redeploy the army from east to west in preparation for the battle of France.

If u think it's too fast log a bug on it and don't use it. That's what I would do anyway.
 

unmerged(998)

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heh. Actually Czechs in validvostok/Siberia isnt that far fetched. There was significant czech army in the East During the Russian Civil war.. they controlled much of the Trans-Siberian from Orel to Vostok.

Yes, the Czech army was a very good one in the 30s but what it really lacked was decent sized air force; hence teh need for potetial Soviet air Squadrons under the '35 Treaty.

(yes no kidding I plan on trying to play Czechoslovakia)..

What i would liek to know-- how does thr AI stack up to EU2 both diplomatically and militarily..?

Z
 

unmerged(7443)

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Originally posted by Soapy Frog
BTW, part of the problem is that strategic redeployment is too rapid. It was quite simple for me to have my troops in position to attack France just a few days after I entrained them from Poland (though I waited some time for no good reason, I could have attacked France starting Sept. 16th).

Historically The Germans were not ready to commence operations until Nov. '39, and even then the generals stalled because they knew they need more time and better weather.

And indeed, any other WW2 game I have played, it usually takes 2-4 months to redeploy the army from east to west in preparation for the battle of France.

The next "problem" is, that the German Army of 1940 differs much from that, that fought in Poland 1939. During the fight against Poland, many gaps in the training, especially in the ranks of Officers and NCO, appeared. This was mainly due to the rapid expansion of the Wehrmacht in the 1930ies. The Reichswehr was only allowed to have a certain number (IIRC 4000) of officers and thus there was a serious lack of trained leaders in 1939.

After the Poland campaign there was some seroius training initiative for battalion and regimental commanders to close these gaps in training.
In Poland, literally the whole Wehrmacht was fighting. Those divisions in the west were newly build und thus ill trained and ill equiped.

So, to make the fight against France in '39 more difficult, the Wehrmacht should have lower quality, which has to be increased after the Poland campaign.
Another option would be to build a) more professional but smaller Wehrmacht or b) a Wehrmacht with more divisons and less training and equipment in the '36 Scenario.

In any case, the german player should be forced to spend the remaining time of '39 and the beginning of '40 with training and/or with building new troops to prevent a to fast fall of France. And if he attacks the french, the fight should be much more difficult and leading to higher casualities than it did actually in May '40.

Chris
 

Soapy Frog

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Agreed, though I think that such a solution might be beyond what is possible with the game engine. Might be easier just to tweak Strat. Redeployment down considerably.

BTW most of the divisions on the French front in the '39 scenario are pretty much vanilla infantry divs with just a few with attached brigades (oh and I think Liebstandarte is posted there... a motorized div. at 30% strength).

My next game my will be hardest possible difficulty, no strat redeployment, and I will attack France and Poland simultaneously.
 

Soapy Frog

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Wow threads get buried FAST on this board.

OK. 1939 Start. Germany. Very Hard/Agressive.

Self-Imposed: No Strat. Redeployment, Reasonable pace of Air Operations (one morning and one afternoon mission).

Using ONLY a portion of the units on the Western Front at start (27 divisions out of 32 iirc), I attacked France thru Belgium. on Sept. 4th and Vichied it on Sept. 10th. Belgium occupied and Poland Annexed on the 12th.

AI shows it's deficiency in many respects. As Rommel's 9 division spearhead neared Paris, I noticed 14 divisions awaiting him. "Good!" I thought "the AI has detected to the emergency and has thrown together a strong garrison for Paris". But no... as I watched, 7 of the defending divisions picked up and moved north... leaving 7 weak inf and cav divisions to protect the capital. These forces Rommel beat in 2 days of battle.

The only French counterattack occured just after the fall of Paris, and it was a 3 division attack of Reims, which was defended by 9 heavy divisions. Didn't go well. (I should note a possible bug: French forces involved in combat at the time of the Vichy declaration do not stand down... they turn Free French.)

French airforce was involved in it's usual shenaigans... flying a small air flotilla between France and Poland! Brave.

Well, I did buy this game primarily for multiplayer, afterall. We'll see how THAT goes!
 

unmerged(9381)

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Originally posted by Soapy Frog
No I could have set the AI aggression to "Furious". I sincerely doubt it would have made any difference at all.

How come, i does "Furious" have more to do with the Diplomacy?

So "Hardest" would be the tactical ability?


What may also need to be noted, is the the French Leadership is very poor. So that may be the reason behind the poor tactics, and beating them up once combat has started.

At least I hope that is what it is.
 

unmerged(1105)

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Originally posted by Soapy Frog
As Rommel's 9 division spearhead neared Paris,

Yuck! This is what I was afraid of with the way they decided to handle generals. Rommel was a divisional commander in 1940, and then only because Hitler put him in that position. When you make leaders historically good, you eliminate the normal uncertainty that surrounds how good someone will be in battle. With HOI I can take Rommel and make him a army commander at start because his natural abilities are already set in stone.

This is disappointing news on the AI. With the AAR's mainly starting in 1936, I set aside non-historical results as simply being the effect of that early start date. If you can roll the AI this easily on a 1939 scenario, it must be really poor.
 

Soapy Frog

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Yeah, the AI does NOT do well when the chips are down. It's biggest problems:

1) It does not defend critical hexes very well... e.g. neither Poland nor France defended their capitals sufficiently. Warsaw should be hard to take!! A high infrastructure city province which is prtected by rivers... but Poland only put 2 divisions there and I was able to defeat them quite easily.

2) the AI is not very coordinated, and tends to squander it's air units... the French air flotilla racing back and forth between France and Poland is a good example of this.

OTOH some fellow wrote in his AAR that he (as USSR) invaded Rumania in 1936 and got copletely stonewalled. And France defends the Maginot line handsomely!

For my NEXT experiment, I will play France ;)