The game analysis of the World War Wednesday

[Jeremy971]

Guys, because this game is awesome ! Because Daniel is awesome ! Because the AI did its job ! And we are all awesome ! I want to bring the Don Cherry's spirit upon us :

and talk about the Daniel's game. If you haven't watched the WWW video, DO IT NOW ! And if you have, you should have noticed how this battle between China and Japan is tough for Daniel. In another thread someone said :

The Chinese encirclement of the Japanese that happened in the south of this area, was a direct result of the troops responding to this crisis being pulled from the front line, China still lost a lot more men, but japan lost more than 200% more men in that encirclement than they had in the entire invasion up to that point.

Japanese troop losses were 11k when checked(30 minute mark), and went up to 26K before end of scenario with troops still cutoff in that Pocket (46:47 into the video) .
Chinese losses were a combined 401K, and went up to 555K
the end result of the evolution still wasn't good for china, but it was the least bad result they've had so far

So if we analyze the game properly. I think Daniel made an huge mistake in changing his division composition ! As you have seen he had 30 divisions in North with 12 brigades each and he changed it for a 8 brigades composition. Despite an huge chineese counter-attack, Danield decided to decrease his number of men and he sent the fresh new divisions in a dead end battle in the South. And for that stratigical mistake, I think Daniel deserves a red card :

So in your opinion what mistakes or success Daniel did ? And How do you see the end of this battle between the two asian dragons ?

 

[Maizel]

Hah.

He had the right idea, but his timing couldn't have be worse.

If anything he should have created a new template, to leave his existing divisions intact.

 

[Number 7]

i believe daniel changed his division composition to try to ease up on his equipment and supply problems. because he went to war so quickly they were burning through infantry equipment I as fast as the factories could produce it and he had a steady deficit growing. no point having soldiers on the front line with no weapons, thats one of the reasons the chinese casaulties are so high

 

[Maizel]

i believe daniel changed his division composition to try to ease up on his equipment and supply problems. because he went to war so quickly they were burning through infantry equipment I as fast as the factories could produce it and he had a steady deficit growing. no point having soldiers on the front line with no weapons, thats one of the reasons the chinese casaulties are so high

He had tons of Infantry equipment though, if I'm not mistaken. He actually even decreased it a little bit to build some of his new fighters.

 

[Finski]

He reduced the size of the individual divisions because his division's are inflicting overkill on the Chinese because of their poor troop quality. He wants to have more total divisions, which he can afford by reducing the size of his divisions, so he can more effectively cover the space and thus better deal with the Chinese counter-attack.

 

[Number 7]

He had tons of Infantry equipment though, if I'm not mistaken. He actually even decreased it a little bit to build some of his new fighters.

which is why at around 45 minutes daniel said "these divisions are too expensive to produce" and jake noted that they could build more after he editted the divisions and daniels exact words were "no, we're still missing quite a lot"

tried putting in the time stamp on the video but the paradox forums doesnt like it. go to 45 minutes in WWW episode 3 of japan to see for yourself

 

[sresk]

I actually don't think it was a mistake at all. Each of his divisions is winning easily what he needs is more divisions. So by making each division a little smaller and building more of them hes able to cover a wider front. Also his main problem right now isn't that his divisions are too weak it's that they can't get enough supply concentrated in the fronts they are in. If anything he needed to cut them in half and then spread them over twice the front with another 2 or 3 naval invasions.

Watching this has made me really reconsider how I'm going to go about building division templates. Especially with Germany against Russia. Although I admit I'd realllllly love to see the performance change of knocking it down to 6 infantry and adding in 2 artillery....

 

[Caesar15]

More naval invasions would be nice, but he can't really spare the troops I think.

 

[sresk]

More naval invasions would be nice, but he can't really spare the troops I think.

well that's my whole point by cutting down the number of brigades in each division he can then take that spare equipment and make more divisions... then he'd have "more troops" to cover a wider front. Its the same number of men just spread out in thinner divisions.

 

[Rommel 459]

So if we analyze the game properly. I think Daniel made an huge mistake in changing his division composition ! As you have seen he had 30 divisions in North with 12 brigades each and he changed it for a 8 brigades composition. Despite an huge Chinese counter-attack, Daniel decided to decrease his number of men and he sent the fresh new divisions in a dead end battle in the South. And for that strategic mistake, I think Daniel deserves a red card :

So in your opinion what mistakes or success Daniel did ? And How do you see the end of this battle between the two Asian dragons ?

While I'm honored you felt my analysis of events worthwhile, I'm going to have to disagree with your conclusion as to whether the division change was a mistake.
The change made each division have lower potential power, but it probably had no effect on the actual power the divisions have at this time, because Daniel still has a sizeable deficit of infantry equipment.
Japanese forces weren't surrounded because they are less powerful, they were surrounded because Daniel chose to pull a sizable force from the frontline in order to rapidly contain and overrun a breakthrough that penetrated into his rear due to a lack of enough supplies to maintain a stable front.

The change to his divisions actually helped him in several ways.
His divisions are now taking up less supplies
His divisions are still partially unarmed, they're now significantly less so than before
He had less casualties when his 6 divisions were encircled/overrun in the south
He had less casualties when he ordered the 7th (overrun) division to retreat into enemy territory

the first benefit is the most important in my opinion, as had he made this change earlier, the initial penetration may not have been made, comparing his lines before the change and after he seems to have a lot less gaps. looking into this on the stream it seems his supply usage per division went down to 0.94 from 1.24 beforehand, so this change had a significant improvement into his supply issues as well. and should allow him to press his attack a lot more effectively

I also can't hold Daniel accountable for not noticing this sooner, nor for losing the troops encircled in the south,as the major objective is to showoff the game and features thereof, He was trying to show us a feature when the encirclement was made, and so was quite too busy to notice his troops in a bad position

in terms of how i see it, china is doomed unless USSR/USA gets involved within the next 2 months, i don't see that as a likely possibility.

What i would like to see out of the stream, is more focus on features/ideas that haven't been covered before, looting of equipment after surrender, whether forts take more time to build as they get higher in level, whether there's a production line like bonus for those, etc.

 

[TheOrangeGuy]

So if we analyze the game properly. I think Daniel made an huge mistake in changing his division composition ! As you have seen he had 30 divisions in North with 12 brigades each and he changed it for a 8 brigades composition. Despite an huge chineese counter-attack, Danield decided to decrease his number of men and he sent the fresh new divisions in a dead end battle in the South. And for that stratigical mistake, I think Daniel deserves a red card :

I respectfully disagree! I think lowering his division size is a good move, something he should have done earlier. Before his reduction his troops crushed the Chinese, more than "meeded" this new composition makes his army still superior to the Chinese, less supply bulky, and more flexible! You need a large amount of divisions to occupy all of China! But I do agree the encirclement was a big mistake, but that's understandable on speed 3. Maybe it's actually best not to destroy any Chinese divisions, just keep pressuring them and keep their equipment low, less Chinese divisions makes their equipment more "centralised".

 

[Rommel 459]

Maybe it's actually best not to destroy any Chinese divisions, just keep pressuring them and keep their equipment low, less Chinese divisions makes their equipment more "centralised".

The lower amount of divisions however makes them less able to maintain a solid front, and thus more easily encircled, and also enables more rapid advancement.

 

[TheOrangeGuy]

The lower amount of divisions however makes them less able to maintain a solid front, and thus more easily encircled, and also enables more rapid advancement.

That is true, a bit more equipment per division will probably not any noticeable difference in this case anyway. Win-win cases for Daniel ^^

 

[Oahkoah]

I think right now there is a problem in that the front could potentially grow too large for the current number of divisions if more are not created. @Da9L is doing pretty good but there seemed to still be supply issues, which would hamper putting any more troops on that front, but at the same time there needs to be more troops to successfully grow the front.

 

[Sun_Killer]

i think your point about still no equipment is not correct. How could he have placed 8 new divisions if he hadn´t had the equipment in his stocks.

 

[Fenrirwolf]

i think your point about still no equipment is not correct. How could he have placed 8 new divisions if he hadn´t had the equipment in his stocks.

By deploying them with fewer weapons, kind of like all chinese troops. He produces more then china, so these should still outperform the chinese

 

[Jeremy971]

We all agree it was a really good idea to decrease his number of men per division. However, why did he send all his new divisions in the south ? He would have been more interresting to send them in the North East and do a large encirclement of the chineese troops.

Because there is no way he can defeat China in two months. China will retreat and counterattack. And he doesn't have enough divisions to defend this large front...

 

[FieldMedic]

Thumbs up for using a Coach's Corner image

 

[Grallak]

I actually don't think it was a mistake at all. Each of his divisions is winning easily what he needs is more divisions. So by making each division a little smaller and building more of them hes able to cover a wider front. Also his main problem right now isn't that his divisions are too weak it's that they can't get enough supply concentrated in the fronts they are in. If anything he needed to cut them in half and then spread them over twice the front with another 2 or 3 naval invasions.

Watching this has made me really reconsider how I'm going to go about building division templates. Especially with Germany against Russia. Although I admit I'd realllllly love to see the performance change of knocking it down to 6 infantry and adding in 2 artillery....

Didn't Japan do this historically and they still had issues with supplies?

 

[Jeremy971]

Thumbs up for using a Coach's Corner image

Give me 5, bro !

And I think HOI4 is in our next military budget !