The Future of Hearts of Iron 4

[imperial.]

This is a suggestion and question.

So where do the developers want to take this game?

1- I understand that the fans of Europa Universalis 4 are much broader and 'mainstream niche' as opposed to Victoria II which is restricted to a specific niche within a niche.

The Europa Universalis 4 game is able to target a greater because of it's timeline content that keeps people hooked from that late medieval feel 'The Age of discovery' to the 'age of colonization' conquistadors to Renaissance
Europe with massive wars around the world even up to the 'Early industrial revolution' victorians.

What i'd like to Know is Will Hearts of Iron 4 be like that from 'Late Industrial Revolution' to 'World war 1' to 'world war 2' to 'Communist vs Capitalist' insurgencies to 'Cold war' targeting grand audience within the Niche.

Or will it just be a specific niche within a niche kind of game?

 

[The_Framptonator]

The game starts from 1936, and it is focused on the build up and conflict of WW2. there will be mods out there, i believe there is currently a mod in the making, which will start in Jan 1914 and up to and through WW2

 

[Sun_Killer]

This is a suggestion and question.

So where do the developers want to take this game?

1- I understand that the fans of Europa Universalis 4 are much broader and 'mainstream niche' as opposed to Victoria II which is restricted to a specific niche within a niche.

The Europa Universalis 4 game is able to target a greater because of it's timeline content that keeps people hooked from that late medieval feel 'The Age of discovery' to the 'age of colonization' conquistadors to Renaissance
Europe with massive wars around the world even up to the 'Early industrial revolution' victorians.

What i'd like to Know is Will Hearts of Iron 4 be like that from 'Late Industrial Revolution' to 'World war 1' to 'world war 2' to 'Communist vs Capitalist' insurgencies to 'Cold war' targeting grand audience within the Niche.

Or will it just be a specific niche within a niche kind of game?

i will just cover 1936-1948 so only WW2, in your words a niche within a niche but a niche with a lot of interested people.

 

[ThetrueColt]

HoI has always been a World War 2 game. There may be future content covering the post-WW2-time (my speculation).

The time between the end of EU IV and WW2 is basically covered by Victoria, so I doubt that Paradox will create official content for it. There will most certainly be mods covering WWI for HoI IV though.

 

[kviiri]

I personally hope they don't expand HoI 4 much beyond WWII. Cold War is cool but HoI 4 mechanics wouldn't do it justice. I want HoI 4 to be a non-overstretched WWII game.

 

[kalauer]

HoI has always been a World War 2 game. There may be future content covering the post-WW2-time (my speculation).

The time between the end of EU IV and WW2 is basically covered by Victoria, so I doubt that Paradox will create official content for it. There will most certainly be mods covering WWI for HoI IV though.

My perception has always been that the end Dates of Grand strategy games were ot so much about intended timeframe but about the possibility to model coherent concepts. Drastical technological and social change in the 19th century renders most concepts of EU4 useless, in particular the combat System (which I didn't like in Vic2 so much), but also the monolithic population, hence the "Pops" in Vic2. Same is true to some degree for CK2 and also HoI. So extending the timeline will take a huge amount of modding if it is supposed to be more than a gamey approach. For example, I guess anyone would agree that modern warfare is not immediately (or at all?) modelable by HoI.

 

[imperial.]

You guys were helpful so im not going blast ya but I boldly stated my ranting opinion here ( comment section)

To be Fair I have to agree with Kalauer..

 

[Wraith11B]

I think that it would probably be relatively easy to port from V2 to HoI4; End the great war and have an interwar scenario covering some of the diplomatic problems in the interbellum period (what can one do with Germany? Can other avenues present themselves? Do Britain and France go absolutely opposite directions?). I would also like at least the first ten years of the Cold War: the period most likely to produce another World War (and least likely to result in catastrophic nuclear holocaust). After the late fifties/early sixties, it becomes much harder to model.

The pre-war years would require a deeper diplomatic and intelligence model which could be also used for the post-war. I think that HoI4 is going to have significantly better mechanics which lend themselves towards pre/post-war developments versus HoI3.

 

[kalauer]

I think that it would probably be relatively easy to port from V2 to HoI4; ...

I must say I never felt this to be desirable. The savegame converter from CK2 to EU4 for instance was a nice Gimmick but there was no serious EU4 game possible with those saves since you most likely are overpowered. Same would be true for Vic2 to HoI4, I guess.

But on a more fundamental level, all these grand strategy games have different foci. They try to model different aspects of the world. Putting them all together can not work. And if it did, we would just have a huge mess of different concepts mashed together to... *god help us* Superpower 2.

The approach of PDS to create credible yet limited game worlds and focus on some aspects while neglecting others suits me personally very well. Imagine HoI4 with the Pops of Vic2, funding and diplomacy of EU4 and relations of CK2? Unplayable. And most likely not even doable on a concept-level, or balanced, for that matter.

So to get back to OP: I would guess that HoI will always stay WW2. We may see an adaption of the engine for cold war (meaning totally new game basing on the last version of clausewitz) some day but I heavily doubt there will be a HoI4-DLC expanding the timeline to 1980.

 

[safe-keeper]

You guys were helpful so im not going blast ya but I boldly stated my ranting opinion here ( comment section)

To be Fair I have to agree with Kalauer..

I don't blame you, but at the same time, having played Hearts of Iron 3, I know they can make it work. The deal with HOI is that it focuses very heavily on one aspect -- warfare -- and has time progress one hour at a time rather than a day. Which means it's just as big a game even though it covers a much smaller period.

WW1 and Cold War have both been suggested, and implemented by mods in the case of other HOI games, but as others have said, HOI's warfare-centric design would probably not do it justice, except as a "cold war gone hot" scenario, perhaps.

Then again, perhaps DLCs could add new features to make inter-war and cold war periods more exciting. CK2 and EU4 have been transformed quite a bit by DLCs, so you never know . Case in point: features to make peace more interesting in EU4, even though that game too is pretty war-centric.

 

[Evan05]

The Europa Universalis 4 game is able to target a greater because of it's timeline content that keeps people hooked from that late medieval feel 'The Age of discovery' to the 'age of colonization' conquistadors to Renaissance

I'm pretty sure there is a greater niche of people that are interested in WW2, a very modern and well documented conflict from which people can feel more connection to than see the various, border-gore states of the middle ages of which is populated largely by countries most people have never heard of before.

 

[Sir Garnet]

I am sure there is a vast niche of people interested in a WW2 game that they can get running in with a relatively modest front-load on the learning curve and a reasonable playing time. The battle planner and focus trees should help a lot on this score.

HOII3 is very good (now, modded to plausibility) but still not that kind of learning curve.

 

[Victor Cortez]

I think the game will be given more depth but not an extended timeline.
I would expect more diplomacy, espionage, partisans game mechanics rather than a pre-36, post-48 DLC.
The only possible exceptions could be a WW1 standalone, or a Korean War DLC,

 

[Kaszub]

By looking what they did with EU IV, I'm sure they will be adding nice new features by making expansions and dlcs, but what I'm affraid of some of them will be just "fix my hoi dlc" like real supply system with fuel, or ability to intercept bombers before they can reach a destination area.

 

[ringhloth]

HOI has always been the most successful game of each generation. Stellaris might beat it, but probably not on initial sales.

 

[Mannstien]

We have a fan base, Stellaris has a PDX following, there is a difference.

 

[Number 7]

as it is, HOI4 is going the niche route. but its going that route while making that niche more and more enjoyable by a larger audience. I am firmly of the opinion that they managed to pull off a really great feat with HOI4 - making a game MORE deep and complex while simultaneously making it easier to play than its simpler predecessor.

let me give some examples:

with the exception of two features, supply and the OOB, there is no area that HOI3 is more complex than HOI4. and we can dicsuss those in a moment.

some like research are contentious - just because HOI3 has ore researches doesnt mean its more complex, as very often you just hit a block of research (now represented by 1 research, for example, better tank model instead of 4 tank techs, better plane instead of 4 plane techs). but now as well as that, you get to research variants, like a tank destroyer or SP-art on the chasis of the old model, and carrier based versions of the same things. then on TOP of that you get to make variants of those.

Supply being simplified is better. its missing a few nice things like air supplying provinces in a pocket and such, but the overall system i think is better, although undeniably more simple. the hoi3 system was arcane and had some serious flaws in its logic. such as sending supplies through a swamp instead of on the railroad next to it,.. As we've seen from the current world war wednesday, supply is still an issue to tackle as Daniel struggled quite hard to find supply fighting the chinese. The chinese who were horrendously unequipped for the war (according to daniel they had basic inf equip, when daniel was using the tech up from it, and they had only 50% of what they needed). but daniel wasnt blitzing them as fast as he was when the war begun because of supply problems. So the supply system is still working, even though its more simple. so lets call that a success because its really easy to figure out, without losing its key purpose and function.

the OOB is a lot more useable for the average joe and for the AI now. im quite sad about he loss of the old OOB because i got quite used to the full tree. but from a functional perspective, its not all that much of value los. i'd argue that the reason this doesnt matter is it doesnt help the vision of the game, as we basically have a limited way to make OOB now which is field marshals (army groups / theatre command) and generals (corps / small armies).

everything else is more complex. from production where you have to make the individual equipment and send it to your troops, to reinforcing those divisions. its not just a "reinforcement slider" anymore, its devoting factories to produce more A6M planes because you just lost 200 at Midway. you're not dealing with an arcane "STR 100%" thing anymore, you're being given a real number for your equipment.


i can go through way more examples, but overall i think the HOI4 team pulled off the best job i could ever ask for in a equel personally. making it easier to play while being deeper and more satisfying from a mechanical perpsective. so i think to answer your question OP

they aren't pulling any punches and making the game casual and mainstream from a mechanics perpsective, but they are also doing their best to make the game streamlined and have a great UI so it seems a lot more simple than it is, but compare it to HOI3 and you can see the game has only gotten deeper

just my 2 cents

 

[Victor Cortez]

just my 2 cents

I totally agree with you. And some of the things that currently are not in the game (air supply), will probably arrive at some point.

 

[jalapen0]

I totally agree with you. And some of the things that currently are not in the game (air supply), will probably arrive at some point.

Podcat said they are adding air supply in a future patch. He said they just ran out of time for release.

 

[kalauer]

Podcat said they are adding air supply in a future patch. He said they just ran out of time for release.

Can you still find this? I remember him saying they did not have the time but not the first part (which would be awesome).