Heheh our old riksdag.
England got their Parliament when do we get our Riksdag?
And when does HRE get a better representation.
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The Fourth Estates
- Thread starter Apolojuice
- Start date
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Heheh our old riksdag.
England got their Parliament when do we get our Riksdag?
And when does HRE get a better representation.
There aren't any traditional merchant republics, while venice and genoa are pretty similiar even they differ from each other. The hansa is something else entirly (even lübeck), in fact the generic merchant republic government is probably closer to the neatherlands than it is to any of the other merchant republics. It's the only merchant republic to actually have a nobility, I guess that the nobility could represent the oldest families but they're still merchants not nobles, and intrested in trade more than war.
Yes you are advocating that the only two republics that in the least way fit the description of the term merchant republic (Lübeck should be a free city with some mechanics for the hansa, and novgorod should be an oligarchic/noble republic) that are in the game should be something else. Which ones would be left as merchant republics then?
You can't seriously suggest that lübeck be left with the generic merchant republic government while you change venice and genoa, lübeck never had a nobility why should they have a nobility faction. No noble in the HRE would ever recognize a free city as their liege. Hence why the hanseatic cities are just that, just the cities.
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An idea: Spanish and Portuguese Colonial Nations should get Peninsulares, Creolles, Clergy, and Landowners.
Peninsulares are those of European families born in Europe and moved to the colonies. They were mostly the administrators until later on when the independence movements started brewing. They should give administrative bonuses. Cheaper cavalry too for gameplay sake.
Creolles are those of European descent who later became a big percentage of the middle class and thus should be the ones that give more income tax and cheaper infantry.
Clergy is clergy, mostly Catholics.
Landowners are plantation owners who should give production tax.
Peninsulares with too much power would make the Creolles and Landowners unhappy. Likewise with Creolles having too much power will make the others upset. Landowners with too much power may trigger slave revolts. Clergy with too much power will slow down your technology.
Haiti could get special flavor, Saint-Domingue (original name of Haiti) colony could get Grand Blancs, Petit Blancs, Clergy, and Mulattos. Maybe assign this to all French colonies not just Saint-Domingue.
Estates has a lot of potential for different countries.
Peninsulares are those of European families born in Europe and moved to the colonies. They were mostly the administrators until later on when the independence movements started brewing. They should give administrative bonuses. Cheaper cavalry too for gameplay sake.
Creolles are those of European descent who later became a big percentage of the middle class and thus should be the ones that give more income tax and cheaper infantry.
Clergy is clergy, mostly Catholics.
Landowners are plantation owners who should give production tax.
Peninsulares with too much power would make the Creolles and Landowners unhappy. Likewise with Creolles having too much power will make the others upset. Landowners with too much power may trigger slave revolts. Clergy with too much power will slow down your technology.
Haiti could get special flavor, Saint-Domingue (original name of Haiti) colony could get Grand Blancs, Petit Blancs, Clergy, and Mulattos. Maybe assign this to all French colonies not just Saint-Domingue.
Estates has a lot of potential for different countries.
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Perhaps the Mestizos (White-Native) and Indios (Pure Natives) should get some representation in this system as well? Not sure what the bonuses might be, but since the indigenous were still the overwhelming percentage of the population, they might be tied to public order and infantry recruitment.
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That depends are we talking novgorod or lübeck?
I'm no expert on Novgorod but as I understand it, it was pretty much a noble republic which happened to get most of it's wealth from trade.
The hansa was a federation, kind of like the EU i'd say, with similiar issues, it had the hansertag, a council where the major trading cities (as well as other members) had a seat. Like the EU there were voices for further centralsation and others for keeping it loose. The people in those seat differed over time and in background, for an example the hichmeister of the teutonic knights had a seat on the hansertag. I seem to remember that the major (Bugermeister) of lübeck was always the chairman of the hansertag.
If we talk lübeck specifically it worked like most cities back then, it has a city council with representatives from the guilds as well as major trading families. It's not really a republic per se. The only diffrence between the free cities and all other cities was that there were no nobles above them, or rather no nobles except the emperor.
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Did anyone have any thoughts on my suggestion about how to mix the faction system with the estates system for Merchant Republics?
Novgorod could have different estates as a Russian Merchant Republic.
Personally, I also want to see a 'trade network' federation system similar to EU3 that could replace the current 'MR trading in trade node' province modifier.
Novgorod could have different estates as a Russian Merchant Republic.
Personally, I also want to see a 'trade network' federation system similar to EU3 that could replace the current 'MR trading in trade node' province modifier.
Lübeck, Hamburg, and Bremen all did have a patrician/noble class known as the Hanseaten. Their role was broadly similar to the oligarchic elite of any other merchant republic, Genoa and Venice included. The league itself didn't have a singular head, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a class of patrician elites dictating the goings-on within the cities that comprised it.
Pretty much the entire names list for Lübeck is drawn from the list of Hanseat families.
That would be too many groups. However the thing is, I feel the estate system is very abstract and it assumes that an entire area was either dominated by the clergy, the burghers, or the nobles. Weren't places split among them? This is why I prefer creating a % type of system with pie charts. Same goes for trade goods culture, and religion.
Honestly you can't compare those to the patricians of the italian republics, the patricians were legally superior the hanseaten were just so by custom. Also they were mostly just a thing in hamburg (the other imperial free cities had similiar things but not as pronounced in hamburg which was less pronounced than the italian patricians).
Well, assuming you expand Lübeck into a proper Hanseatic league, you can't expect to ignore the local nobility of cities you incorporate. Historically yes, Lübeck and a number of Hanseatic cities functioned as free cities who swore fealty to only the Emperor. However, this does not mean patricians and landowners did not take part in the governing of the city, and would be happy to have no recognition or rights.
Though that's generally how it worked in areas controlled by the hansa, the wealth and power of nobles were recognized but they got less preferential treatment than members of the old trader families. In fact in hanseatic cities that were taken by others those old trader families were often offered noble titles and a lto of them actually declined, the hansa did not take kindly to the nobility.
The truth is if they directly subjugated nobles from other realms they'd would have been provoking half of europe to deal with them. Hence why they worked so well hand in hand with the teutonic knights, the teutonic knights had the scope (not the word I'm looking for but I just got a total mindfreeze) to wield the same authourity as the nobility (mainly because they were drawn from nobility if usually the lower nobility) leaving the hasna to administer the cities and the trade, something that the teutonic would prefer not to do (because there were rules against holy orders engaging in commerce, and they had seen what had happened when the termplars compromised with those rules).
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So that might mean getting a few modifiers like Venice gets in its DHEs, which give a monthly malus tick for the Aristocracy faction.
But the nobility of conquered lands would be better represented by the noble estate than by the artistocrats faction.