The Fourth Estates

[TheAtreides84]

Well early on they said that estates would replace the factions in merchant republics but not in ming. Wow that's boring.

The Fat East is bound to get an overhaul update sooner or later.

edit: "Fat" is a typo but I leave it alone because isn't that far off speaking of Ming

 

[Atlantians]

That sytstem only makes sense for genoa and venice, not for lübeck and novgorod.

How so?

 

[TheDungen]

How so?

What do you mean how so? Well because they didn't have patrician houses that way obviously.

 

[User4035]

Why do Merchant Republics have no estates? Seems pretty unfun to play as one now.

The dev team ran out of time to implement estates for merchant republics.

Sadly it creates a huge imbalance since the burgers estates give 20% trade efficiency and extra trade power. So merchant republics get 20% less efficiency than everyone else. They lose the burghers province trade modifier as well. So merchant republics now make significantly less that non other government forms in trade.

It's fairly game breaking and they really need to hot fix it.

They don't even have to implement estates for merchant republics either. They can just change the modifiers for the existing guild mechanic.
The bonuses are kinda crappy because they are outdated for the guilds anyway.

Edit:
I looked the existing bonuses.
Just give merchant republics a 10% trade efficiency modifier for governmen type.

Make the faction bonus more substantial. Like 10% efficiency for traders. Up the morale for aristocrat. Guilds get -10% development. Etc..
Maybe even more bonuses. You can get fairly good bonuses here because it costs monarch points to throw the influence around.

If they got time to program I would suggest a drawback of 25% autonomy in provinces that don't have an important centre of trade, estuary, trading post.

 

[TheAtreides84]

The dev team ran out of time to implement estates for merchant republics.

Sadly it creates a huge imbalance since the burgers estates give 20% trade efficiency and extra trade power. So merchant republics get 20% less efficiency than everyone else. They lose the burghers province trade modifier as well. So merchant republics now make significantly less that non other government forms in trade.

TBH I don't think this is far too inaccurate. This is the era when trading republics started to fall behind the more mercantilistic and centralized trade efforts of nation-states.

 

[apsmisk_]

Yeah. I want my swedish peasant estate!

 

[Oddb@ll]

Yeah. I want my swedish peasant estate!

I was just going to mention this. When I read the title I automatically assumed the thread would be about adding the peasants/farmers as an own estate. In Swedish history peasants had a very strong position and were represented in Parliament (at least the wealthy ones).

I find the debate about slaves being an estate somewhat absurd.

 

[TheDungen]

I was just going to mention this. When I read the title I automatically assumed the thread would be about adding the peasants/farmers as an own estate. In Swedish history peasants had a very strong position and were represented in Parliament (at least the wealthy ones).

I find the debate about slaves being an estate somewhat absurd.

Well neither are the cossacks but they are a group that could be handled by the system. But considering the territorial aspect perhaps it ought to be slaver owners.

 

[Shimohi]

TBH I don't think this is far too inaccurate. This is the era when trading republics started to fall behind the more mercantilistic and centralized trade efforts of nation-states.

Glad Paradox' design philosophy isn't "because their were shit in history, we make them shit and unfun in game too".

 

[TheDungen]

TBH I don't think this is far too inaccurate. This is the era when trading republics started to fall behind the more mercantilistic and centralized trade efforts of nation-states.

The neatherlands would like a word with you.

 

[Styria]

That sytstem only makes sense for genoa and venice, not for lübeck and novgorod.

I've always thought they needed to adjust the Venetian and Genoese governments. Venice in particular did not have elections every four years, the Doge was an old patrician who was elected to serve for the remainder of his life, kind of like the Pope, except with patricians instead of cardinals. Perhaps making "Serene Republics" to replace merchant republics for Italian-cultured states might be interesting.

 

[TheDungen]

I've always thought they needed to adjust the Venetian and Genoese governments. Venice in particular did not have elections every four years, the Doge was an old patrician who was elected to serve for the remainder of his life, kind of like the Pope, except with patricians instead of cardinals. Perhaps making "Serene Republics" to replace merchant republics for Italian-cultured states might be interesting.

Except Genoa is pretty much the closest nation to the merchant republic we have in the game there was IRL, and Venice is still closer than the hansa is (The doge of venice may have been for life but the hansa didn't even have a leader like that*). Perhaps a fully centralsied hansa could work like a merchant republic does in the game but it never did IRL.

*The hansa was a federation, and far from all board members of the hansa were burgermeisters, the grandmaster of the teutonic knights for an example was a member.

 

[InFerroVeritas]

Yes they do. Have a look at DDRJake's Mzab campaign on Twitch.

From what I can tell, the Clergy get a boost to influence if you're a Theocracy.

I recently saw the Pope suffer the "controlled by clergy" disaster.

Lulz were had.

 

[TheDungen]

I recently saw the Pope suffer the "controlled by clergy" disaster.

Lulz were had.

I think there is a unique one if it's the faction that corresponds to you government that gets to much influence. So clergy for theocracies, nobles for monarchies and burghers for republics.

 

[PhroX]

I recently saw the Pope suffer the "controlled by clergy" disaster.

Lulz were had.

Heh, I've already put that one in the strange screenshots thread

 

[Quaade]

Theocracies get Estates same as most everyone else, the exceptions being Ming (Celestial Empire) and Merchant Republics.
Estates are fully moddable.
Have made a few myself focusing primarily on the Colonial Nations (Nothing ready to be shared though)

Will beat you with a stick... have been wanting to mod estates, but writing ideas in my breaks of studying... would like more estates and more dynamics evolving the power of them... like supporting peasant over rebels, at some point nobles will rebel and you must either return their rights or fight for your reforms... like giving clergy supreme power and either becoming a theocracy or something like a holy kingdom with some bonuses but also some penalties from supporting a single estate...

 

[TheAtreides84]

The neatherlands would like a word with you.

The Netherlands weren't a traditional merchant republic like Venice. In-game, they have another government to represent this.

 

[TheAtreides84]

Glad Paradox' design philosophy isn't "because their were shit in history, we make them shit and unfun in game too".

They aren't shit. They just miss some bonuses, and have less risks to contend with (albeit largely manageable risks). In the hand of the player they still can do very good.

 

[Styria]

Except Genoa is pretty much the closest nation to the merchant republic we have in the game there was IRL, and Venice is still closer than the hansa is (The doge of venice may have been for life but the hansa didn't even have a leader like that*). Perhaps a fully centralsied hansa could work like a merchant republic does in the game but it never did IRL.

Well, both Venice and Genoa did have Doges that ruled for life, though the Genoese stopped that practice in 1528, opting for two-year term doges instead. I'm not advocating eliminating the Merchant Republic, since it's my favorite government type. And I think changing all merchant republics into Serene Republics is not a good idea. I just think Genoa and Venice should have a unique option, and Doges that rule as long as they are supposed to. Perhaps they could give all republics the ability to select term length via a slider or something.

 

[PMLF]

Adding Jews as a Estate seems like a brilliant idea, I doubt Paradox would put it on the base game tho lol

That's the best way to represent them as there are no minority religions in provinces nor POPs like Victoria II.