The focus on "wide" stifles the game

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

grommile

Field Marshal
66 Badges
Jun 4, 2011
22.459
38.922
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • March of the Eagles
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Prison Architect

Ixal

Banned
77 Badges
Apr 5, 2008
2.730
4.608
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • King Arthur II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
Being an SP-only person, I'd be interested to know how true that holds when the other empires in the galaxy are all clever squishy meatbags instead of dysfunctional AIs.
Considering that there are no options to incite rebellion from the outside it doesnt matter much. In competitive MP the lack of viable strategies is very obvious. Everyone races to expand and the largest empire (or player alliance) wins. If you stop expanding and focus on development you become a victim.
 
Last edited:

Emraldis

Colonel
41 Badges
May 23, 2016
1.101
111
  • Magicka
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II
is not technically related to this, especially not in the context you mentioned, since this issue clearly existed before 1.5.
But I'll agree that the introduction of Unity did not change anything (as many might have hoped, albeit Wiz never said Unity was a mechanic supposed to support tall empires).



The big point you're missing here is the fact those games have TERRAIN. (Not in the 'terrain types' of way, to preemptively clear out that missunderstanding).
In Stellaris, there's nothing suchlike. Fleets can pretty much go anywhere from anywhere, except for Hyperlanes.
Thus, there's no 'splitting up troops' or 'defending chokepoints' or 'good defense positions' which would require and therefore promote tactical maneuvring. The best difference between System A and System B in Stellaris might be whether it has a colony in it to siege down for warscore, or not.

Therefore, this is an issue that I am not willing to simply attribute to tall vs wide, but to the inherent flaws with the extremely high mobility of the current FTL methods (excluding Hyperlanes).
And, which is at least some form of positive here, Wiz said he's fully aware of that issue and is intending to completely rework FTL to make these military maneuvring matters actually relevant once he has a patch worth of time to actually go in-depth to rework FTL without relying on bandaid fixes.

Until then, it's relatively pointless to complain about the overpowering strength of wide vs tall, and it might be more reasonable to focus your creative energy on devising a good concept to rework FTL to enable the need for fleet maneuvers and allow a warfare system that is in-debth enough to support 'the few standing against the many'.

Stellaris really does need some galactic terrain, it would help make galaxies more interesting, and restrict movement for all FTL types, not just hyperlane.