The five oppressive edicts: what should be changed?

[Tannhäuser Cake]

Currently, there are five oppressive edicts:

• Information Quarantine (locked behind Authoritarian ethic)
  • Base cost 10; +5 Stability, +50% Governing Ethics Attraction
• Extended Shifts (locked behind Domination tradition)
  • Base cost 10; -10% Happiness for Workers and Slaves, +10% Worker Output, +10% Slave Output
• Enhanced Surveillance (locked behind Domination tradition)
  • Base cost 20; -10% Happiness, +1 Encryption, +25% Authoritarian Ethics Attraction, +1 Envoy
• Thought Enforcement (psionic technology)
  • Base cost 30; -10% Happiness, +1 Encryption, +25% Governing Ethics Attraction, -5 Crime from Telepath jobs (effectively -10 Crime)
• Tracking Implants (technology)
  • Base cost 30; -10% Happiness, +1 Encryption, +25% Authoritarian Ethics Attraction, -10 Crime

Out of these five edicts, the first one is a natural pick for an Authoritarian empire but I have never considered using any of the last three. They cost very much and their overall benefit can be negative. That -10% Happiness equates to at least -6 Stability, +0.2 Crime/pop and -10% Governing Ethics Attraction, and reduced diplomatic weight from pops. This means that the ethics attraction benefits are nearly halved from the listed values, that Tracking Implants and Thought Enforcement will increase Crime on worlds with over 50 pops, and that Enhanced Surveillance will increase Crime on all worlds. On top of the mentioned -6 Stability (-18 Stability if you pick all three in an attempt to really control your population). These are effects that I would normally not consider even if the edicts were completely free, as +1 Encryption is usually not worth that price, and these three edicts cost a lot. Base cost 30 is the same tier as the various Subsidies edicts, which offer such bonuses as +50% Miner output.

The ideas are good, but the last three edicts could be even better.
And also more different from each other.
How should the last three edicts be changed?

 

[HFY]

Extended Shifts could be considered an oppressive edict, too.

Agree with you about Info Quarantine being worthwhile and the others being ... not worthwhile.

Some ideas for buffing the others:
- Tracking Implants gives +50% Auth attraction (the detriment for non-Auth empires) and -10% sprawl from pops.
- Thought Enforcement gives +100% enemy espionage cost.
- Enhanced Surveillance gives +20% society from jobs.

 

[Dr. B]

Extended Shifts could be considered an oppressive edict, too.

Agree with you about Info Quarantine being worthwhile and the others being ... not worthwhile.

Some ideas for buffing the others:
- Tracking Implants gives +50% Auth attraction (the detriment for non-Auth empires) and -10% sprawl from pops.
- Thought Enforcement gives +100% enemy espionage cost.
- Enhanced Surveillance gives +20% society from jobs.

Agree with OP on only the first edict being worthwhile.

I like the -10% sprawl from pops idea. This is a bery valuable boost, so you get less happy but more easily controlled pops.

 

[Troyen]

I don't think sprawl reduction should be on an edict, even if it would be a nice or thematic bonus. Having a sprawl reduction edict means you could enable it whenever you got close to a tradition/tech to lower your sprawl and then disable it again afterwards as later in the game the unity/tech progress you'd save with the reduction outweighs a single month's unity cost.

 

[BrokenSky]

I feel like the bottom three are primarily Anti-Espionage edicts?

I use them whenever I feel like enemy espionage is a serious threat.

They can be buffed by making this a non-zero amount of the time.

 

[Tannhäuser Cake]

Extended Shifts could be considered an oppressive edict, too.

I thought about that one too when I was writing the post, but decided that it was substantially different from the others (more about worker exploitation than controlling the entire population) and it also seems to be in a relatively decent shape otherwise - at least when compared to the three edicts pointed out in the original post. I added it now though, as it is an edict that is relevant for empires considering the other four edicts.

Some ideas for buffing the others:
- Tracking Implants gives +50% Auth attraction (the detriment for non-Auth empires) and -10% sprawl from pops.
- Thought Enforcement gives +100% enemy espionage cost.
- Enhanced Surveillance gives +20% society from jobs.

Instead of, or in addition to, the current effects?

Also, reduced Empire Size from pops would mean an increasing edict cost reduction (with -15% Empire Size from Pops it is circa -4% at 200 pops, -5% at 300 pops, -7% at 800 pops, assuming that approximately 65% of Empire Size comes from pops). The difficulties of balancing a dynamic percentage aside, this means that the edict would partially fund itself.

 

[Wendigo514]

I thought about this some time ago, an interesting idea could be to apply the happiness malus of Tracking Implant and Enhanced Surveillance only to non-Authoritharian pops (imo Auth pops should accept without problem to renounce some of their liberty if it's for their security) and the one of Thought Enforcement only to pops not following Governing Ethics (pops who conform to the Government should have nothing to fear).

 

[HFY]

Instead of, or in addition to, the current effects?

I was thinking in addition, but I'm not married to the full suite of current effects.

Also, reduced Empire Size from pops would mean an increasing edict cost reduction

Yep. Might need to be priced differently than general Edicts, or might not be workable.

Alternately, some kind of upkeep reduction -- and double the reduction for slaves -- with the flavor text that by tracking them so closely you reduce "wasted" resources.

 

[Tannhäuser Cake]

I feel like the bottom three are primarily Anti-Espionage edicts?

I use them whenever I feel like enemy espionage is a serious threat.

They can be buffed by making this a non-zero amount of the time.

Operation Overhaul is unfortunately beyond the scope of this thread.

That being said, even if enemy agents were a problem, there is still no reasonable situation where I would feel tempted to pay up 30 base cost (most likely sacrificing other edicts of equal cost), and get -6 Stability and +0.2 Crime/pop, to get just +1 Encryption and some ethics attraction. And there are other sources of Encryption bonuses that would need to be exhausted first as well, even in unreasonable situations.

 

[Tamwin5]

Operation Overhaul is unfortunately beyond the scope of this thread.

That being said, even if enemy agents were a problem, there is still no reasonable situation where I would feel tempted to pay up 30 base cost (most likely sacrificing other edicts of equal cost), and get -6 Stability and +0.2 Crime/pop, to get just +1 Encryption and some ethics attraction. And there are other sources of Encryption bonuses that would need to be exhausted first as well, even in unreasonable situations.

Yeah, even if espionage was common the edicts are too weak to be effective detergents. My changes are fairly simple, and could be combined with other changes to the ancillary bonuses (like by @HFY )

• Reduce cost to 10 unity base (currently 30)
• Increase Encryption to +4

The -10 happiness is punishing enough it should be the primary cost of the edict, which is why I dropped the unity cost. And +4 encryption is enough to make an actual dent in any espionage done against you.

 

[SEELE 01]

• Enhanced Surveillance
  • Base cost 30; -5% Happiness, +2 Encryption, +25% Authoritarian Ethics Attraction, -0.2 Crime / pop, +1 Unity from Enforcers and Telepaths
• Thought Enforcement
  • Base cost 30; +5% Happiness, +1 Encryption, +50% Governing Ethics Attraction, -10% war exhaustion
• Tracking Implants
  • Base cost 30; -10% Happiness, +2 Encryption, +25% Authoritarian Ethics Attraction, -0.5 Crime / pop, -5% resource production, +50% empire immigration push

The min-maxing by constantly turning on and off edicts could be fixed by adding a initial cost, a 30 days activation time, or a 5 year lock out like government reform.

Having Surveillance Camera all over the place seems alot better than having implants in your body.

I feel like Thought enforcement are media propaganda, stories from history textbook, influencers constantly telling you how great our empire is, how everyone eles is evil and our government is the most efficient / most free one in the galaxy. And any war against other empires have a good reason and you should support it.

Tracking Implants makes sure every person is being tracked at all times, every place you go and everything you do is being recorded, thus making it almost impossible to commit crime except for a few that are able to hack the implants. Every petty crime is now under the radar, small things people could usually get away with before is now being punished. Everyone is tired and a little paranoid, afraid of making any small mistake, thus decrease in resource production, and people would like to get out of the empire if they have a chance. This should be like an empergency panic button when crime is out of the world.

 

[Tamwin5]

• Enhanced Surveillance
  • Base cost 30; -5% Happiness, +2 Encryption, +25% Authoritarian Ethics Attraction, -0.2 Crime / pop, +1 Unity from Enforcers and Telepaths
• Thought Enforcement
  • Base cost 30; +5% Happiness, +1 Encryption, +50% Governing Ethics Attraction, -10% war exhaustion
• Tracking Implants
  • Base cost 30; -10% Happiness, +2 Encryption, +25% Authoritarian Ethics Attraction, -0.5 Crime / pop, -5% resource production, +50% empire immigration push

The min-maxing by constantly turning on and off edicts could be fixed by adding a initial cost, a 30 days activation time, or a 5 year lock out like government reform.

Having Surveillance Camera all over the place seems alot better than having implants in your body.

I feel like Thought enforcement are media propaganda, stories from history textbook, influencers constantly telling you how great our empire is, how everyone eles is evil and our government is the most efficient / most free one in the galaxy. And any war against other empires have a good reason and you should support it.

Tracking Implants makes sure every person is being tracked at all times, every place you go and everything you do is being recorded, thus making it almost impossible to commit crime except for a few that are able to hack the implants. Everyone is tired and a little paranoid, thus decrease in resource production, and people would like to get out of the empire if they have a chance. This should be like an empergency panic button when crime is out of the world.

Thought Enforcement requires Psionics. It is literally enforcing thoughts. IMO should still decrease happiness, as even if people are thinking the right thoughts (governing ethics attraction) they still don't like their brains being pried into.

Crime is never a big enough issue for the massive penalties of tracking implants to be worth it. Honestly just -10% happiness is enough.

 

[qer]

I don't think enhanced surveillance need a happiness debuff compare to the other two edicts which are even more totalitarian in nature. Still the four of then are about controlling population so the question would be what would be the best representative for that. I like the idea of unity creating enforcers in totalitarian regimes, and similarly extra stability and goverment attraction makes sense as well.

 

[Tannhäuser Cake]

Yeah, even if espionage was common the edicts are too weak to be effective detergents. My changes are fairly simple, and could be combined with other changes to the ancillary bonuses (like by @HFY )

• Reduce cost to 10 unity base (currently 30)
• Increase Encryption to +4

The -10 happiness is punishing enough it should be the primary cost of the edict, which is why I dropped the unity cost. And +4 encryption is enough to make an actual dent in any espionage done against you.

One potential issue is that +4 Encryption would make the overlap between the population control edicts more problematic. Since the effects from relative encryption cap at +4, getting multiple +4 bonuses would be pointless. Empires would then be encouraged to pick no more than one of these edicts. At least if Encryption remains the main bonus.

It now also just occurred to me that it would be conceptually reasonable for Information Quarantine to also offer an Encryption bonus. If that edict is changed to also include an Encryption bonus, the overlap issue could become even bigger.

 

[Ikael]

I think that save for the first edict, the other ones are not only too weak but also too samey (happiness malus and encryption galore). So if I had to rework them, I would remake them in this fashion:

Enhanced Surveillance (locked behind Domination tradition)
Base cost 20; +2 Encryption, +25% Authoritarian Ethics Attraction, +1 Envoy

An edict focused on intelligence services, think homeland security, and the war against terror. Since espionage is quite weak in general, I think that espionage-related bonuses ought to be hefty to be noticed. The removal of its happiness penalty is simply based on the fact that I have yet to see a massive pushback against all those security laws enacted in the name of counter-terrorism.

Tracking Implants (technology)
Base cost 30; -10% Happiness, +25% Authoritarian Ethics Attraction, -25 Crime

An edict specialized in crime reduction, its bonus needs to be far more powerful in order to offset the happiness malus. It also makes sense for it to be the one with the only (or biggest) happiness penalty, for it is extremely intrusive (heck, it is physically intrusive).

Thought Enforcement (psionic technology)
Base cost 30; +5% Happiness, +25% Governing Ethics Attraction, +1 Unity from telepaths and enforcer jobs

Needs to be the most powerful edict out of the 3, for it has the steepest requirements. An insidious, subtle way of making your society more, hum, "harmonious" and united.

 

[Tannhäuser Cake]

Tracking Implants (technology)
Base cost 30; -10% Happiness, +25% Authoritarian Ethics Attraction, -25 Crime

With -25 Crime, and barring excess Happiness, the net effect should be:
-25 at 0 pops
-20 at 25 pops
-15 at 50 pops
-10 at 75 pops
-5 at 100 pops
-0 at 125 pops
+5 at 150 pops

While the Crime reduction would still exist for colonies of most sizes, it would be greatly diminished. An empire of worlds in the 50-75 range would just be getting -10 to -15 Cime reduction.

An alternative could be to instead reduce Crime per pop by a percentage. For example: -50% would change the range of Crime per pop from 0-2 to 0-1, and at 90% Happiness the Crime increase from a drop of -10% Happiness would be completely offset by the Crime reduction. Going from 90% to 80% Happiness would normally increase Crime from 0.2 to 0.4, but halved Crime from pops would drop that to 0.1 to 0.2. The new Crime value of 80% Happiness would be equal to the old Crime value of 90%, making 90% Happiness the point at which -50% Crime would offset the Crime increase from -10% Happiness. At higher starting Happiness values, the Crime increase would be slightly bigger, but at lower Happiness values the Crime reduction would be greater.

An edict specialized in crime reduction, its bonus needs to be far more powerful in order to offset the happiness malus. It also makes sense for it to be the one with the only (or biggest) happiness penalty, for it is extremely intrusive (heck, it is physically intrusive).

It does not have to be intrusive, and the population does not even have to be aware.
You could just secretly inject the tracking chip when they get their Covid-2319 vaccination.

 

[MathyM]

this means that the edict would partially fund itself.

Isn't this what the Edict that increases Priest output does?

 

[Ikael]

With -25 Crime, and barring excess Happiness, the net effect should be:
-25 at 0 pops
-20 at 25 pops
-15 at 50 pops
-10 at 75 pops
-5 at 100 pops
-0 at 125 pops
+5 at 150 pops

While the Crime reduction would still exist for colonies of most sizes, it would be greatly diminished. An empire of worlds in the 50-75 range would just be getting -10 to -15 Cime reduction.

An alternative could be to instead reduce Crime per pop by a percentage. For example: -50% would change the range of Crime per pop from 0-2 to 0-1, and at 90% Happiness the Crime increase from a drop of -10% Happiness would be completely offset by the Crime reduction. Going from 90% to 80% Happiness would normally increase Crime from 0.2 to 0.4, but halved Crime from pops would drop that to 0.1 to 0.2. The new Crime value of 80% Happiness would be equal to the old Crime value of 90%, making 90% Happiness the point at which -50% Crime would offset the Crime increase from -10% Happiness. At higher starting Happiness values, the Crime increase would be slightly bigger, but at lower Happiness values the Crime reduction would be greater.

I quite agree with it. Crime has the same problems as espionage: it is so much irrelevant that if you give some kind of bonus related to it, it needs to be huge in order for the player to feel its impact. -50% crime in all your empire seems that it will do the trick.

It does not have to be intrusive, and the population does not even have to be aware.
You could just secretly inject the tracking chip when they get their Covid-2319 vaccination.

LOL XD well, I was thinking more about those GPS ankles that convicts have to carry everywhere when on parole, or those dystopian collars in sci-fi prisions.

Now that I think about it, removing all happiness maluses from all those oppressive edicts would be a quite fitting bonus for the Police state civic, since it would be a very apt civic for keeping those types of programs in secret (other less crafty governments would need to deal with leaks due to chatty government employees, and bumpy microchips with led lights shining under your skin and whatnot).

 

[Tannhäuser Cake]

I thought about this some time ago, an interesting idea could be to apply the happiness malus of Tracking Implant and Enhanced Surveillance only to non-Authoritharian pops (imo Auth pops should accept without problem to renounce some of their liberty if it's for their security) and the one of Thought Enforcement only to pops not following Governing Ethics (pops who conform to the Government should have nothing to fear).

That is an interesting idea, and it would make a lot of sense that pops would react differently depending on their political preferences. This is how it usually is when intrusive measures are debated in real-life politics, with governing or Authoritarian parties generally being more in favour and opposition or (sometimes Fanatic) Egalitarian groupings generally being more opposed to the idea.

I am not sure about the performance impact of selecting pops by ethics for a Happiness penalty, but an alternative could be to achieve a hit to Happiness via a hit to faction approval. Factions that are generally happy could tolerate the intrusion without Happiness taking a hit; after all, it is being done in defence of their favoured issues and policies. Factions that are less happy could react less enthusiastically (-10% Happiness below 40% approval, and -40% Happiness below 20% approval).

This would also be consistent with the faction action Suppress Faction, which strongly reduces the approval rating of the negatively affected faction. With these edicts favouring some ethics they are essentially suppressing the other factions, and it would be consistent for the latter to be upset about it.

 

[HFY]

Now that I think about it, removing all happiness maluses from all those oppressive edicts would be a quite fitting bonus for the Police state civic, since it would be a very apt civic for keeping those types of programs in secret (other less crafty governments would need to deal with leaks due to chatty government employees, and bumpy microchips with led lights shining under your skin and whatnot).

I'd go the other way and have Police State reduce happiness of Worker & Slave pops in trade for more stability.

Police State would be where you don't care about how miserable your pops have become, so the Happiness penalty does become irrelevant without losing its effect.