The first changes to this game I would recommend after playing 40+ hours

[Chronicler]

Just wanted to post some changes I would recommend, to improve the game for all I suppose. (I am not sure yet I want these changes myself lol, I kind of like colonizing and not having to compete with AI)

1. Set AI to ignore tropical provinces or provinces with negative settler growth early game/until they can handle it (Or maybe give them extra settler growth on tropical provinces).

*Why: My first game I played as Portugal, at around 1500+ when I had colonized much of the South Americas and Caribbean Castille still only had two african provinces with -5 settler growth
(-25 tropical). Same for England that was stuck in Guyana in a tropical province. The AI right now just isn't smart enough to realize this is detrimental. Settler chance alone just isn't enough.
EDIT: My colonial Brazil was stuck colonizing a tropical province for 200 years :/

2. Do the same for colonial nations.

*Why: Well dumbo, they obviously do the same thing since they are also AI, how could you not realize that on your own

3. Lock colonial nations to their specific areas

*Why: Well for example I had 4 provinces in colonial Guyana and my caribbean colonial nation decided it was a good idea to grab provinces there (through strait across to island), which prohibited me from forming a nation there.
Also the AI always messes things up, they really should be locked to their area. EDIT: I wanted one to compete with England there

4. Make changes to development of colonial nations (Am I suppose to be able to choose governors and decide stuff over this colonial nations? If so, I haven't found it...someone direct me there please?)

*Why: Well, I did take a look at their development buildingwise and so on, and they are suppose to be doing things "for me" as I read in a paradox article, problem is that they are picking all the wrong stuff, and building things they don't need.
I don't know why but my Caribbean colonial nation decided it was a great idea to just build military buildings for example, and completely ignore trade, production or economy for example. Maybe they should concentrate more on the economic side of things? I also read somewhere that they picked Expansion as their 2nd tree? That they are programmed for that? Shouldn't they also be programmed for Exploration and then be able to pick settler growth policy? Or anything that increases settler growth. Or any ideas that improve economy and makes it easier for them to build stuff, such as Economic for lower building costs (also Quantity I suppose there). And stuff like that. Feel they are a bit weak as of now.

5. Make trade companies more independent, from what I recall from history, companies like the British East India Company had it's own armies and so on? Why not make trade companies similar to colonial nations, but with the option to cancel the trade company like what happened to the East India Company in the 19th century?

*Why: I think with the competition of trade companies in history it would be more "historical" for those of you who like that , it would also make also make the game more smooth, (rebels etc).

6. Give greater control on direction of colonial nations (if this exist I haven't found it) (Or better "pre-programming" of such nations).

*Why: To mimic historical control of colonies and also to keep the AI from messing things up since I lose control of these colonial provinces when the AI takes them over (such as leadership of the colony (governor), direction of it's ideas and buildings (economywise). If pre-programmed I would recommended ideas go this way: 1. Exploration 2. Expansion (Then pick policy Colonial Expansion for 20+ settler growth) 3. Quantity (Then change policy to The Colonial Settlement Act) 4. Economic (Maybe Economic is better as third than Quantity though for the AI, these two should be 3 and 4 at least). I am also thinking Plutocratic, Innovative, Administrative, Trade, Espionage in no particular order. If trade would they send trade power to their overlord?. They should be prohibited from some choosing some tech I suppose and concentrate on economic development. Once they can't colonize anymore they should switch policy to something economic as well.

7. I had something more I wanted to suggest as changes as colonization but I forgot, if I remember I will edit this post.

8. Portugal starts rather weak but it's traditions and ideas doesn't really reflect how huge Portugal was as a trade power I think, or the economic powerhouse it was back then. Maybe +1 colonist and some more trade power in it's ideas? And settler growth equal to that of Castille? The portuguese king back then got the nickname "the grocer king" for a reason.

Oh, and hello AndrewT, I didn't mean you when I wrote "dumbo". :O

 

[ahyangyi]

1. Set AI to ignore tropical provinces or provinces with negative settler growth early game/until they can handle it (Or maybe give them extra settler growth on tropical provinces).
2. Do the same for colonial nations.

I hear this is already the case. If you see otherwise it's probably a bug.

Actually, everyone else seems to be complaining that every colonizer goes for North America to avoid that tropical penalty.

I don't know though. I mostly play with random new world so I have no idea about this.

3. Lock colonial nations to their specific areas

I can't agree. Colonial nations have their own minds too. Wouldn't you, as British Thirteen Colonies, want to expand and ruin Britain's plans too?

4. Make changes to development of colonial nations (Am I suppose to be able to choose governors and decide stuff over this colonial nations? If so, I haven't found it...someone direct me there please?)

They just removed your ability to choose governors. So I guess they have some reasons in mind.

5. Make trade companies more independent, from what I recall from history, companies like the British East India Company had it's own armies and so on? Why not make trade companies similar to colonial nations, but with the option to cancel the trade company like what happened to the East India Company in the 19th century?

Looks good for me. Also the map gets more symmetry (vassals on both sides of the map).

6. Give greater control on direction of colonial nations (if this exist I haven't found it) (Or better "pre-programming" of such nations).

Their national ideas are indeed pre-programmed. A suggest direction feature would be nice though. Even a CN with high liberty desire would have some use for your direction.

8. Portugal starts rather weak but it's traditions and ideas doesn't really reflect how huge Portugal was as a trade power I think, or the economic powerhouse it was back then. Maybe +1 colonist and some more trade power in it's ideas? And settler growth equal to that of Castille? The portuguese king back then got the nickname "the grocer king" for a reason.

While I understand your concern, your suggestion would make the two countries too similar... Right now both are strong colonizers and traders but with very different flavor. They just buffer Castille in this patch though, so Portugal will surely look much worse by comparison...

Oh, and hello AndrewT, I didn't mean you when I wrote "dumbo". :O[/QUOTE]

 

[Achanei]

I agree that the colonist AI is rather stupid and could need some more love. It used to be that the CNs had a special government and the overlord got to pick their rulers in an election event, but since 1.8 they have real governments now which I think makes them stronger overall.
Being able to meddle more as an overlord could be interesting, but at the same time it would make their already weak revolutions even weaker - why would I allow my militarily incompetent CN to tke good military ideas?


I strongly disagree on portugal needing more trade buffs, they are already huge income-wise once the trade starts rolling and usually dominate the income ledger unless the player intervenes. All those CoTs in sevilla with the current trade propagation system makes them a vastly powerfull nation, it is basically impossible to stop them from hoarding trade without taking their iberian holdings. Maybe play with some nation in africa or the new world to experience how powerful portugal is as trader.

 

[Chronicler]

ahyangyi:

1. Well, that's what they did , my colonial Brazil was bordering 4 non-tropical provinces and decided to go for the tropical one.

3. Well, I would say they have their own minds but they are limited to what their "overlord" wants or what is prudent. Perhaps there should be some feature that I have have 3 provinces in colonial Guyana and my Caribbean colonial have 2 then I would automatically get a colonial Guyana nation?

4. Well, I was wondering about that, since I read that you could choose your governor, spent ages looking for it.

8. Well, Portugal should have that considering it's weaker in other ways.

 

[Chronicler]

I agree that the colonist AI is rather stupid and could need some more love. It used to be that the CNs had a special government and the overlord got to pick their rulers in an election event, but since 1.8 they have real governments now which I think makes them stronger overall.
Being able to meddle more as an overlord could be interesting, but at the same time it would make their already weak revolutions even weaker - why would I allow my militarily incompetent CN to tke good military ideas?


I strongly disagree on portugal needing more trade buffs, they are already huge income-wise once the trade starts rolling and usually dominate the income ledger unless the player intervenes. All those CoTs in sevilla with the current trade propagation system makes them a vastly powerfull nation, it is basically impossible to stop them from hoarding trade without taking their iberian holdings. Maybe play with some nation in africa or the new world to experience how powerful portugal is as trader.

Well, I could rebut with that as colonial nations why would they need military ideas when they can expect protection from their "overlord"? (Remember game ends 1821, and if Great Britain really wanted to they could have won the American Revolutionary War, problem was the the generals they put in charge didn't really want to win. Other colonial nations got their independece in the 19th century. Mexican war of independence started in 1810. (And so on). So that's very late stage game we are talking about.
But I suppose military ideas can be put in for later stages as well. Though it wouldn't really make sense for an "overlord" to let their colonial nation build up militarily for reasons of independence =P

 

[grommile]

1. Set AI to ignore tropical provinces or provinces with negative settler growth early game/until they can handle it (Or maybe give them extra settler growth on tropical provinces).

*looks at nearly-empty Brazil, mustard-yellow North America, and turquoise South Africa* On the basis of my current France game, I have to ask: are you sure you're playing the current version of EU4?

3. Lock colonial nations to their specific areas

*Why: Well for example I had 4 provinces in colonial Guyana and my caribbean colonial nation decided it was a good idea to grab provinces there (through strait across to island), which prohibited me from forming a nation there.

You could have sold your Guyanan provinces to your Caribbean colonial nation (for 0 ducats if necessary). This would even be a good idea, because a CN in Guyana is liable to be weak enough that you have to defend it.

4. Make changes to development of colonial nations (Am I suppose to be able to choose governors and decide stuff over this colonial nations? If so, I haven't found it...someone direct me there please?)

In previous versions you got to pick your colonial nations' governors. It doesn't seem to happen in the current setup.

 

[ahyangyi]

Brazil:
defensive_ideas
religious_ideas
offensive_ideas
trade_ideas
diplomatic_ideas
maritime_ideas
spy_ideas
quality_ideas

Canada:
defensive_ideas
religious_ideas
trade_ideas
economic_ideas
plutocracy_ideas
diplomatic_ideas
offensive_ideas
spy_ideas

Colombia:
defensive_ideas
religious_ideas
offensive_ideas
trade_ideas
diplomatic_ideas
spy_ideas
economic_ideas
maritime_ideas

USA:
plutocracy_ideas
trade_ideas
economic_ideas
defensive_ideas
maritime_ideas
administrative_ideas
offensive_ideas
quantity_ideas

USA looks special. The others are almost the same.

 

[ahyangyi]

*looks at nearly-empty Brazil, mustard-yellow North America, and turquoise South Africa* On the basis of my current France game, I have to ask: are you sure you're playing the current version of EU4?

In previous versions you got to pick your colonial nations' governors. It doesn't seem to happen in the current setup.

If he's not playing the current version of EU4, he probably will be able to choose CN governors...

 

[Achanei]

Well, I could rebut with that as colonial nations why would they need military ideas when they can expect protection from their "overlord"? (Remember game ends 1821, and if Great Britain really wanted to they could have won the American Revolutionary War, problem was the the generals they put in charge didn't really want to win. Other colonial nations got their independece in the 19th century. Mexican war of independence started in 1810. (And so on). So that's very late stage game we are talking about.
But I suppose military ideas can be put in for later stages as well. Though it wouldn't really make sense for an "overlord" to let their colonial nation build up militarily for reasons of independence =P

Hmm, i think you misunderstood me a bit, my argument was that there is such a thing as liberty desire in the game, so it stands to assume that colonies trying to break free is intended.
However, in the current state of the game, those independence wars are trivial to win as overlord, because the CNs are weak militarily (they often fall behind in miltech, have bad army composition and general lack of FL compared to the overlord, not to mention the human advantage). So if you allow the overlord to pick ideas for them they'd end up with no military ideas at all (as you said, it is just not sensible to give them military ideas), and that would make them even weaker - sure, that might be somewhat historically accurate, but would also make the whole independence mechanic even more absurd than it already is, to the point where it would effectively remove the feature from the game.

 

[Chronicler]

*looks at nearly-empty Brazil, mustard-yellow North America, and turquoise South Africa* On the basis of my current France game, I have to ask: are you sure you're playing the current version of EU4?


You could have sold your Guyanan provinces to your Caribbean colonial nation (for 0 ducats if necessary). This would even be a good idea, because a CN in Guyana is liable to be weak enough that you have to defend it.


In previous versions you got to pick your colonial nations' governors. It doesn't seem to happen in the current setup.

According to Steam I am fully updated 1.8 (something). I don't know if I am using any beta patch if you are referring to that (if this tropical avoidance thing was introduced in a beta patch which I might surmise from a previous post).

 

[Chronicler]

Hmm, i think you misunderstood me a bit, my argument was that there is such a thing as liberty desire in the game, so it stands to assume that colonies trying to break free is intended.
However, in the current state of the game, those independence wars are trivial to win as overlord, because the CNs are weak militarily (they often fall behind in miltech, have bad army composition and general lack of FL compared to the overlord, not to mention the human advantage). So if you allow the overlord to pick ideas for them they'd end up with no military ideas at all (as you said, it is just not sensible to give them military ideas), and that would make them even weaker - sure, that might be somewhat historically accurate, but would also make the whole independence mechanic even more absurd than it already is, to the point where it would effectively remove the feature from the game.

Well, I do seem to get no choice on whether or not I want a colonial nation so..., I should get some control in exchange (As a player). Also, I have read mostly about the American Revolutionary War, but wasn't that also really the situation? No ships, no cannons and so on. They didn't really have much to use at first. State militas etc. Mexico got the means for independence from the French if I remember right.

But a lot of things doesn't make sense, for example what happened to indian rebellions and so on that sometimes could cause great trouble? Doesn't really seem like colonial nations have that much trouble imo. And ofc they will try to break free if they have reasons for it, and if they can militarily. In the case of the US it seems more like whiny americans that anything on Britain, Canada, Australia and other possessions didn't go all whiny about taxes that they should pay.

Historical ties are usually very strong, as we still can see with Canada and Australia to Great Britain. Basically because it's the same people. Why would colonies want independence?

EDIT: Most logical would be that the "overlord" runs or directs it until liberty desire gets so high it wants to break free

 

[Freudia]

Hmm, i think you misunderstood me a bit, my argument was that there is such a thing as liberty desire in the game, so it stands to assume that colonies trying to break free is intended.
However, in the current state of the game, those independence wars are trivial to win as overlord, because the CNs are weak militarily (they often fall behind in miltech, have bad army composition and general lack of FL compared to the overlord, not to mention the human advantage). So if you allow the overlord to pick ideas for them they'd end up with no military ideas at all (as you said, it is just not sensible to give them military ideas), and that would make them even weaker - sure, that might be somewhat historically accurate, but would also make the whole independence mechanic even more absurd than it already is, to the point where it would effectively remove the feature from the game.

This seems intentional as well. The Thirteen Colonies likely would have lost their independence war if it was just them vs Britain. However, it wasn't just them vs Britain.

 

[Chronicler]

Brazil:
defensive_ideas
religious_ideas
offensive_ideas
trade_ideas
diplomatic_ideas
maritime_ideas
spy_ideas
quality_ideas

Canada:
defensive_ideas
religious_ideas
trade_ideas
economic_ideas
plutocracy_ideas
diplomatic_ideas
offensive_ideas
spy_ideas

Colombia:
defensive_ideas
religious_ideas
offensive_ideas
trade_ideas
diplomatic_ideas
spy_ideas
economic_ideas
maritime_ideas

USA:
plutocracy_ideas
trade_ideas
economic_ideas
defensive_ideas
maritime_ideas
administrative_ideas
offensive_ideas
quantity_ideas

USA looks special. The others are almost the same.

I would say though that colonial nations would auto-fail without settler growth from Expansion and Exploration, so that would be detrimental to a later rebellion since they would have less money to spend on military

 

[Achanei]

This seems intentional as well. The Thirteen Colonies likely would have lost their independence war if it was just them vs Britain. However, it wasn't just them vs Britain.

Fair point. I have to admit, I have never bothered with the independance war scenarios (apart from beating them down in random games) so im not sure, but does an externally supported revolution actually happen with AI? because if france or some other major would actually support GB's colonies, then thats another kind of beast, but im kinda doubtful whether the AI is capable to pull it off...

 

[AureliusBob]

post 1.8 I find myself swimming in cash and just keeping my colonial nations tariffs low and giving them large subsidies. Since they always drag me into world wars, at least I can get a little bit of warscore out of them...otherwise CN seem absolutely useless.

I think in addition to some of your suggestions, CN need an entire overhaul

 

[Freudia]

Fair point. I have to admit, I have never bothered with the independance war scenarios (apart from beating them down in random games) so im not sure, but does an externally supported revolution actually happen with AI? because if france or some other major would actually support GB's colonies, then thats another kind of beast, but im kinda doubtful whether the AI is capable to pull it off...

I'm usually not watching the AI's colonial nations, so I don't know if they ever get independence supported. Sneaking feeling they don't, though. I know the player can do it though!

 

[Chronicler]

I will also be interesting to see how AI colonial nations deals with natives trying to burn their colonies. It would probably be best if the AI also got some way to deal with this. I constantly see african AI colonial holdings destroyed by natives.

 

[Xinkc]

3. Lock colonial nations to their specific areas

*Why: Well for example I had 4 provinces in colonial Guyana and my caribbean colonial nation decided it was a good idea to grab provinces there (through strait across to island), which prohibited me from forming a nation there.
Also the AI always messes things up, they really should be locked to their area. EDIT: I wanted one to compete with England there

I think Guyana should be divided up between other colonial regions because it's mostly useless. Other than that, I like that CN's can colonize other stuff if they have the ideas. So long as they have settler growth that is.

 

[Achanei]

I will also be interesting to see how AI colonial nations deals with natives trying to burn their colonies. It would probably be best if the AI also got some way to deal with this. I constantly see african AI colonial holdings destroyed by natives.

The AI actually gets a bonus so native attacks are far less likely, for that reason. Not sure if that was tweaked recently, but it used to be quite rare that AI lost colonies to natives.

 

[ahyangyi]

I would say though that colonial nations would auto-fail without settler growth from Expansion and Exploration, so that would be detrimental to a later rebellion since they would have less money to spend on military

You haven't looked at their National Idea set though

Traditions:
+0.10 Yearly inflation reduction
+0.5 Yearly republican tradition

Founding Fathers
-33% Advisor costs

Continental Trade
+25% Provincial trade power modifier

Religious Outposts
+3% Missionary strength

Free Thinkers
-10% Idea cost

Colonial Militia
-10% Regiment cost

New Frontiers
Terra Incognita adjacent to colonies is revealed.
+20 Global settler increase

Liberty Heroes
+1 Leader(s) without upkeep

Ambitions:
+10% Morale of armies