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Aquadragon10

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One of the things I like about this story is the fact that although Earth is kind of a craphole it might actually represent the best hope for freedom in the galaxy. What will the humans do if all the aliens are bad?
While I don't know about everyone else, but I would start laughing that Humanity somehow has better morals then other intelligent life.
 

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We haven't seen the rest of alien life in the galaxy yet. Thus why I am holding it back until I see every sentient species and their governments first.
Since the first discovery of alien life, a self-critical mood had developed among many liberals and intellectuals, which held that aliens must be superior to mankind. After all, how could anyone look at Human society, with its rampant inequalities, its festering divisions, and its myopic destruction of Earth’s environment, and conclude otherwise? Now, for the first time, an alternate view developed. Humans, for all their flaws, might be rare in their capacity for good and their love of individual freedom. It was a stark and unsettling welcome to the galactic community.

One of the things I like about this story is the fact that although Earth is kind of a craphole it might actually represent the best hope for freedom in the galaxy. What will the humans do if all the aliens are bad?
What's the old quote again? "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true." So the audience and in-universe 23rd century humanity are apparently pessimists about our place in this galaxy? Judging from other Stellaris AAR, the RNG often throws you either in a very friendly or very hostile local cluster or empty star cluster. It would not be good for humanity's safety or psyche for us to be stuck here with enemies on all sides with the nearest friendly state on the other side of the Milky Way. We would end up like the Crown Atomic Nordic Federation. A heavily fortified democracy with a siege mentality. Of course next update, we could encounter a bunch of well run democratic civilization who can safely thumb their noses or beaks at us flawed and puny humans. Although I suspect those possibe states would have flaws as well in closer inspection.

While I don't know about everyone else, but I would start laughing that Humanity somehow has better morals then other intelligent life.
Why not? So far the evidence points to that direction...

So far we have a grand sample size of one of living full size FTL alien civilization unless the next update changes things. Throughout history, assumptions that humanity or Earth is special has not served us too well so let us be careful assuming humanity is much better or worse than other civilizations of this galaxy.

Maybe we are wrong about the Uqo"Praknarians? Maybe they are merely an ultra stratified hierarchical society with an intense cold war level ideological hatred of democracy like the Tzenkethi from the Star Trek Novelverse or they merely see us as rivals for resources and have a intense hatred of the idea of a population of privileged aimless "takers" on welfare living on a rich world like the Martian Congressional Republic or Settlement Defense Front and thus their hatred of humanity and the UN rather the xenophobic slaver guild megacorporate dystopia or unpleasant Mass Effect Batarian Hegemony expies they currently come off as. Of course, that could be far too generous a interpretation of the Cartel and they are as bad as they appear to be. Stellaris races are usually what they appear to be.

Currently if we are speaking in comparisons, the First Century has a better or maybe reconstructed version in Tvtropes terminology of Expanse Earth in tense icy conflict with the Mass Effect Batarian Hegemony expy for control of the local star cluster.
 

AegonVLLI

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So far we have a grand sample size of one of living full size FTL alien civilization unless the next update changes things. Throughout history, assumptions that humanity or Earth is special has not served us too well so let us be careful assuming humanity is much better or worse than other civilizations of this galaxy.
And the Uqos are? If humanity isn't special, the Uqos aren't either. So far we have seen two societies, one better and one worse.
If we assume that humanity or the Uqos aren't special but adhere to the norms, humans belong to at least the better half. Now two is an extremely small sample, but the odds that both species are fairly standard is greater than that both are extreme outliers or one is and the other isn't. That's just statistics.
Which is why I claim that the evidence points to that direction. Could be different (considering this is Stellaris it probably will be different), but that's how statistics work. The odds are greater to humanity being some of the better civilizations, but maybe they aren't.
So far, the UN would be wise to arm itself and proceed with extreme caution...
 

Bored Student1414

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And the Uqos are? If humanity isn't special, the Uqos aren't either. So far we have seen two societies, one better and one worse.
If we assume that humanity or the Uqos aren't special but adhere to the norms, humans belong to at least the better half. Now two is an extremely small sample, but the odds that both species are fairly standard is greater than that both are extreme outliers or one is and the other isn't. That's just statistics.
Which is why I claim that the evidence points to that direction. Could be different (considering this is Stellaris it probably will be different), but that's how statistics work. The odds are greater to humanity being some of the better civilizations, but maybe they aren't.
So far, the UN would be wise to arm itself and proceed with extreme caution...

"Let me tell you something about hu-mons, nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working... but take away their creature comforts deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers... put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same, friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes."-Quark in Star Trek: Deep Space 9.

I wouldn't want to claim any civilization is better than another no matter how much I might dislike certain practices because doing so is a dangerous path. Besides that the aliens no doubt have a rich culture or cultures of their own, let us not pretend us humanity is that or at all superior to the Uqo'Praknarians. The line between 23rd century human civilization and the slavery, tyranny, mindless xenophobia, oppression, intolerance, racial, ethnic, and cultural hatred of humanity's past and that of the Uqo'Praknarians is a few checks of basic income. If the UN stopped propping up the governments and welfare systems of its weakest member states, we would see a collapse of order and the appearance all of those negative things people hate about the Uqo'Praknarians here on Earth within a year if not sooner. In the colonies, the things keeping life somewhat bearable is a stream of supplies and the presence of the UN space police force enforcing regulations. Without those things, we would see a return of abusive megacorporate tyranny and de facto slavery of post Chinese revolution era of spaceflight or anarchy very rapidly.
 
Last edited:

zenphoenix

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Bored Student1414

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Yes I passed but I am not the topic of discussion here. The AAR is the topic of discussion. Let us stop the derailing.

If I remember correctly, the United Nations and the nations of Earth plan to considerably loosen restrictions on who can be a space colonist in the 2230s. A new Wild West period. Presently in the story, the UNSO very tightly controls who can be a colonist and how the colonies are run. Technical specialists, scientists, and other skilled people were selected. The 2230s plan is suppose to open the colonist slots to lucky members of the general public. Do you think the 2230s colonization plan is a good idea or a disaster waiting to happen?

For the Wild West plan.
It provides hope to the masses and relieves some pressures on Earth society. Upset people will leave for the hope of a better life in the colonies and are less likely to radicalize to cause problems on Earth.
Work and purpose for the unemployed mass. People in the colonies have meaning in their lives again.
It allows to faster colonization and expansion of human space. It would also rapidly increase humanity's influence over the galaxy.
The colonies would be representative of all humanity and not just of handpicked scientific and technical elites.

Against the Wild West plan.
Crime might spin out of control if colonists are less skilled and controlled.
Colonists of the general public will inevitably cause severe environmental damage and problems on the new garden worlds.
Uncontrolled expansion will start worse tensions with aliens out there.
The general public is more likely to disobey colonial authorities.
Space is far harsher than the American frontier and demands a different people and mindset than the Wild West approach.

For the current system.
Tighter control of the colonies. The colonists are much more likely to know and obey the plans. They are more likely to obey authorities and less likely to commit crimes or to rebel.
Colonist skills. The colonies would be much more skilled in developing and maintaining things. Important when one mistake can kill an entire colony.
Slower expansion means less tensions with rival alien colonial powers. Less people demanding the UN or the governments doing something against the aliens.
Its easier to close the Wild West if it never opens in the first place.

Against the current system.
Preventing members of the general public from going to new colonies causes severe tensions of its own. The British banning American settlers from settling in the Ohio valley was one cause of the American Revolution.
Colonial elitism. The current system will cause selected colonists and their descendants to regard themselves as superior to the Earthers and weaken human unity. Filthy lazy Earther takers!
The current system benefits the upper educated classes and the rich nations of Earth much more than the poorer masses and is likely to worsen the class gap and wealth divide.
 

Surt

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If people select themselves it will be the most ruthless and ambitious that take to the stars at first, better make a lottery among the qualified and uplift the rest.
 

Casko

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If people select themselves it will be the most ruthless and ambitious that take to the stars at first, better make a lottery among the qualified and uplift the rest.

I agree, a lottery would be a much fairer way.

I can already see this turning to something akin to Republican Rome era land re-distribution lotteries with all the weird and bizarre events and corruption surrounding these attempts to give land to the poor. (the idea is still however, the most fair it can be)
 

zenphoenix

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What about something like the Homestead Acts in the US? Would that work on an interstellar scale?
 

JodelDiplom

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What about something like the Homestead Acts in the US? Would that work on an interstellar scale?
Giving land titles to those who manage to settle and cultivate a piece of exoplanet real estate? That would be akin to letting the megacorps divide the universe among each other. A libertarian dream come true.
 

nicochrish

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JodelDiplom

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A nightmare for those who stand to lose, which is everyone but the 0.1%.
Well tbh they aren't losing anything they could ever get. 99.9% of the people on earth are never going to leave earth, no matter how you organize the interstellar colonization.

Just leave the colonization effort to the nation states and have them organize it each on their own. They will engage in a big competition against one another and that will nicely motivate everyone to pitch in. If you leave it to the UN then it will just be endless squabbles.
 

annsan

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Well tbh they aren't losing anything they could ever get. 99.9% of the people on earth are never going to leave earth, no matter how you organize the interstellar colonization.

Just leave the colonization effort to the nation states and have them organize it each on their own. They will engage in a big competition against one another and that will nicely motivate everyone to pitch in. If you leave it to the UN then it will just be endless squabbles.

It should absolutely not be left to the nation states. They will just export all their ridiculous rivalries and petty nationalism to space and divide humanity
 

JodelDiplom

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It should absolutely not be left to the nation states. They will just export all their ridiculous rivalries and petty nationalism to space and divide humanity
They get stuff done, that's why

But in this AAR that boat has sailed and the UN has managed to become a semi effective institution so that's who will manage the effort for good or worse
 

DukeRothis

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May 31, 2016
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They get stuff done, that's why

But in this AAR that boat has sailed and the UN has managed to become a semi effective institution so that's who will manage the effort for good or worse
I suppose it still might be a bit of a fragile balance. People may still consider themselves "Chinese" or "Russian" or "English" rather than "Terran" or "Human". It'll take even more time for humanity to think of itself as a unified and united species. Even then, remnants of the old order of when humanity was a bunch of squabbling nation-states, such as language, culture, customs and all that would persist.

Actually, that leads me to ask a question. What are the main languages of the United Nations in this world?