• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

thedarkendstar

General
20 Badges
Mar 13, 2012
1.978
3.658
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
What do you think they are going to do to simulate this will they give Finland a bonus on war dec called white death or maybe a bonus for fighting on it homeland all I know is it would be awesome playing as them and resisting the soviet invasion.

Maybe a national spirit where they get increased defensiveness and organization regain in home territory you guys got any suggestions.
 
  • 5
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Kriegs_

Tribunus plebis
89 Badges
Apr 5, 2015
98
221
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
Yes! i would like to see how that plays on, because if we rely on pure tech and manpower the finns would lose and that's not what i want for my playtroughs :)
 

hannuvitunhanhi

Recruit
52 Badges
Jun 3, 2015
7
30
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Finland has an national spirit "sisu" to help them out
WqIACbU.jpg
 
  • 15
  • 4
Reactions:

Will Steel

Centurion First-File
112 Badges
Oct 23, 2010
6.784
7.173
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
Would that "Sisu" thing also apply when it is the Finns attacking someone? Because that would be really too powerful.
 
  • 4
Reactions:

Daelyn75

Field Marshal
87 Badges
Jun 10, 2003
3.148
803
www.youtube.com
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Would that "Sisu" thing also apply when it is the Finns attacking someone? Because that would be really too powerful.
Every time the winter war happened in HOI II/Darkest Hour/Arsenal of Democracy - the front wouldn't shift for two months, then all of a sudden the Soviets start conquering the entire place. Then they would settle for the historical border result. I suspect that non-shifting border thing was the time needed for the AI to move it's armies up there. As far as I know, it never changed.
 

Fulmen

The Winter War was only 7% of Finland's WW2
73 Badges
Dec 23, 2006
5.969
6.025
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • War of the Roses
  • War of the Vikings
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
I've been wanting to do a HoI4 Finland thread for a long time but have never gotten around to it. Finland has always been portrayed quite poorly in Paradox games (especially HoI), even though Paradox Interactive is from neighboring Sweden. I'm hoping HoI4 will do a better job, but the fact that they put the wrong guy as President in 1936 isn't exactly giving me high hopes.
 
  • 3
  • 2
Reactions:

CocoCincinnati

Lt. General
46 Badges
Aug 11, 2010
1.525
2.158
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
One of the things HOI3 got right about the winter war, the later versions anyway, was the low infrastructure provinces along the border which limited the number of routes that the soviets could attack through. One of the things it got wrong was that the soviet AI would move large numbers of division up north and attack from there but do very little attacking against the Mannerheim line itself. Which of course would be the smart thing to do but there are reasons the soviets didn't do that in real life. It will be interesting to see how (or if) this is handled in HOI4 beyond just the national spirt bonus.
 
  • 6
  • 1
Reactions:

jamesd

Colonel
22 Badges
Aug 23, 2009
1.083
1.247
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
One of the things HOI3 got right about the winter war, the later versions anyway, was the low infrastructure provinces along the border which limited the number of routes that the soviets could attack through. One of the things it got wrong was that the soviet AI would move large numbers of division up north and attack from there but do very little attacking against the Mannerheim line itself. Which of course would be the smart thing to do but there are reasons the soviets didn't do that in real life. It will be interesting to see how (or if) this is handled in HOI4 beyond just the national spirt bonus.

With infrastructure now being on the provincial level, the USSR will be able to attack along the entire front as those impassable provinces won't exist. The only possible constraint will be supply bottlenecks limiting the number of divisions that can operate north of the Mannerheim Line front.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

perujuan

Second Lieutenant
24 Badges
Jun 29, 2011
133
61
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
You think Germany will be allowed to lend lease to Finland during winter war? It will be 1939/40, as the German player I would be conservative to how much I send. Is there something that will push Finland to be Germany's ally after winter war?
 

Denkt

Left the forums permamently
42 Badges
May 28, 2010
15.763
6.369
I think Germany can lend lease Finland. You could influence the politics of Finland to make it more facist which will probably make an alliance more likely, improve relationsas well (I think lend lease do that).
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Karelian

General
48 Badges
Sep 1, 2006
2.353
255
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
With infrastructure now being on the provincial level, the USSR will be able to attack along the entire front as those impassable provinces won't exist. The only possible constraint will be supply bottlenecks limiting the number of divisions that can operate north of the Mannerheim Line front.
Hopefully this will be limited to historical few divisions, though.

HoI 3 solution would have worked near-perfectly otherwise, but the AI couldn't be lured to attack at the Leningrad-Viipuri front against too difficult odds since it was not programmed to fight with attrition tactics. All in all Winter War cannot be really simulated well in a general grand strategy game like HoI IV since the Finns operated with battalion-level units against Soviet regimental and even divisional level forces on regular basis.

Replicating situations like the battles of northern shore of Laatokka where Finnish IV Corps, essentially two worn-out infantry divisions, first stopped and encircled two Soviet divisions while simultaneously holding off 11 Soviet divisions that were attacking along the region.
http://www.talvisota.fi/files/kartat/wg1079-01.jpg

I'm highly sceptical about the chances to mimic results like this in HoI IV. And it might not even be necessary. On a grand scheme of things getting the Winter War "right" only requires proper policy and decision threes where the war affects the general course of WW2 in Scandinavia and in the Baltic region, and allows the Soviet Union a chance to experience the disastrous effects that Stalin's officer purges had to the RKKA first-hand before the Nazis invade the USSR. If the game gives the Finns a chance to wiggle their way through the war without becoming part of the Soviet Union, good, but generally speaking only the diplomatic front and the army reform programs that Soviets historically initiated after the Winter War are really important for the big picture.
 
  • 5
  • 3
Reactions:

jamesd

Colonel
22 Badges
Aug 23, 2009
1.083
1.247
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
You think Germany will be allowed to lend lease to Finland during winter war? It will be 1939/40, as the German player I would be conservative to how much I send. Is there something that will push Finland to be Germany's ally after winter war?

I think Germany can lend lease Finland. You could influence the politics of Finland to make it more facist which will probably make an alliance more likely, improve relationsas well (I think lend lease do that).

Germany actually prevented supplies from reaching Finland during the Winter War and did not provide any aid itself. The Italians wanted to provide some fighters but the Germans didn't let them through. The Molotov Ribbentrop Pact put Finland in Russia's sphere of influence and Germany was bound not to support Russia's enemies.
 
  • 4
Reactions:

Karelian

General
48 Badges
Sep 1, 2006
2.353
255
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
I think Germany can lend lease Finland. You could influence the politics of Finland to make it more facist which will probably make an alliance more likely, improve relationsas well (I think lend lease do that).

Lend-Leasing Finland would be a gross violation of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty, and should terminate it if Germany chooses to do so.
Germany should also have an event where they'll stop Italian military aid to Finland from passing through as per OTL.
 
  • 7
Reactions:

Denkt

Left the forums permamently
42 Badges
May 28, 2010
15.763
6.369
Germany actually prevented supplies from reaching Finland during the Winter War and did not provide any aid itself. The Italians wanted to provide some fighters but the Germans didn't let them through. The Molotov Ribbentrop Pact put Finland in Russia's sphere of influence and Germany was bound not to support Russia's enemies.
This don't matter, because HOI4 is a game and it would be much more interesting for Germany to have the ability to provide lend lease.

Lend-Leasing Finland would be a gross violation of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty, and should terminate it if Germany chooses to do so.
Germany should also have an event where they'll stop Italian military aid to Finland from passing through as per OTL.

Germany don't have to sign the Molotov-Ribbentrop treaty.
 
  • 4
  • 3
Reactions:

jamesd

Colonel
22 Badges
Aug 23, 2009
1.083
1.247
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
This don't matter, because HOI4 is a game and it would be much more interesting for Germany to have the ability to provide lend lease.

Germany don't have to sign the Molotov-Ribbentrop treaty.

That raises the question of would Russia invade Finland in the 39/40 winter without the Pact? Would they wait until Germany's main forces were operating against France? If Germany invaded Poland without the Pact, does Russia invade eastern Poland, and if so do clashes with the Germans when they meet start a war between the two? Would Russia wait until Germany's main forces were operating against France and then invade Germany?

If there's no Pact, then yes Germany should be able to send aid to Finland. If there is a Pact, then there could be an option to send/allow aid, but at the cost that if the Russian's discover it they gain a Casus Belli against Germany.
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:

perujuan

Second Lieutenant
24 Badges
Jun 29, 2011
133
61
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
That raises the question of would Russia invade Finland in the 39/40 winter without the Pact? Would they wait until Germany's main forces were operating against France? If Germany invaded Poland without the Pact, does Russia invade eastern Poland, and if so do clashes with the Germans when they meet start a war between the two? Would Russia wait until Germany's main forces were operating against France and then invade Germany?

If there's no Pact, then yes Germany should be able to send aid to Finland. If there is a Pact, then there could be an option to send/allow aid, but at the cost that if the Russian's discover it they gain a Casus Belli against Germany.
I thought Germany poured in supplies to Mannerheim way before operation Barbarossa, yes its after Winter war, but Germany aided and prepared Finland for war on USSR
 

jamesd

Colonel
22 Badges
Aug 23, 2009
1.083
1.247
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
I thought Germany poured in supplies to Mannerheim way before operation Barbarossa, yes its after Winter war, but Germany aided and prepared Finland for war on USSR

I just looked up the TOE's of Finish Infantry Divisions in June 1941, and of the 576 artillery pieces in the artillery regiments, there were only 12 x 105mm howitzers. All the others are types from pre the winter war or captured Russian pieces. Those 105mm howitzers weren't necessarily even German as other countries made them as well. Finland's Air Force in mid 1941 did not include any German aircraft supplied after the Winter War ended. Germany did supply some equipment to Finland after Barbarossa, but as with supplies to other allies, it was just enough to buy some goodwill and keep them in the fight as Germany never had enough equipment to fully satisfy its own wants.
 

Karelian

General
48 Badges
Sep 1, 2006
2.353
255
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
I thought Germany poured in supplies to Mannerheim way before operation Barbarossa, yes its after Winter war, but Germany aided and prepared Finland for war on USSR

Only after the Winter War had convinced Hitler that the Red Army would be easily beaten, and when Finland had become a useful pawn in the war preparations against the Soviet Union due the German occupation of Norway. In 1939 Hitler had sold Finns out to Stalin without blinking an eye.
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions: