The Fighting Temeraire

[unmerged(3016)]

I thought I might attempt to provoke a discussion from a slightly different angle.Usually the starting point for anything we discuss here is some claim or other made about the manly arts, you know ,something concerning the clash of steel , the rockets red glare and the whiff of cordite on the air.I thought it might be entertaining to take a different approach.

So here is a link to a reproduction of a painting by JMW Turner(1775-1851)."The Fighting Temeraire tugged to her last Berth to be Broken up" (1838)


http://65.107.211.206/victorian/painting/turner/paintings/temeraire.html

Please feel free to discuss the historical significance of the painting and the painter , or the period in which it was painted.Discuss the artistic merits if you wish.

If you ignore this thread completely , my feelings will be hurt and I will start a thread called "Tanks-which is the biggest and heaviest and crushes to death humans most effectivley?"as an act of petulance.

 

[Dark Knight]

Well, there appears to be a steamship towing the Temeraire to its ultimate destruction, thus symbolizing the approaching death of the Age of Sail and the replacement of the sailing ship with the more technologically advanced, but less romantic and "refined" steam ship.

Note furthermore that the Temeraire is painted in whitish and light-yellowish colours, whereas the steamship is mostly black and belching a cloud of smoke. It also appears like a misshapen dwarf in comparison to the elegeance of the larger ship that it is towing. Additionally, the sun is setting, further reinforcing the sense of the end of the ship's existence.

 

[unmerged(3016)]

Yes it is definatley a 'passing of time ' type painting.The Temeraire is ghostly and majestic and the steam tug is horrible looking and leaves this stain of smoke across the middle of the painting.The sunset completes the metaphor.

From an art historians perspective Turner is usually identified as a romantic , a 'movement' of very loose definition that other notables such as Caspar David Friedrich are usually includsed in.One historian has described the central theme of the romantics as 'Infinite longing'.

This is a very famous painting , especially in England where it has a status akin to a major religious icon.That reputation has been attached to it for a long time.An important aspect of this is the doomed ship itself.HMS Temeraire fought along side Nelsons Victory at Trafalgar and is often credited with having saved the British flagship.

So it's 'infinite longing' is magnified by time.Not only are we mourning the end of sail and the coming of Industrialisation , but in more recent years a certain idea of England and English power in the world.

 

[unmerged(3016)]

For a slightly dry but very fact - rich enviroment on the subject of the Royal Navy and the history of It's ships during the period that HMS Temeraire was fighting rather than being scrapped...

http://www.cronab.demon.co.uk/INTRO.HTM


If you dont want to search through it yourself , here is the entry on the Temeraire...

TEMERAIRE,98. (1798 Chatham. Sold 1838) 1799 Capt. Peter PUGET, 4/99. (Rear Ad. Sir J.B. WARREN in August 1799 and Rear Ad. WHITSHED from November) Channel. 1801 Capt. E. MARSH, Channel. 1803 out of commission at Plymouth. She was commissioned in October 1803 by Capt E. HARVEY. 1805 off Cadiz. At the battle of Trafalgar TEMERAIRE was directed to take station astern of VICTORY. Because of the damaged state of the latter station keeping was very difficult and TEMERAIRE suffered from the enemy's heavy raking fire. She opened fire at NEPTUNE and REDOUBTABLE losing her mizen-top-mast to the latter. TEMERAIRE hauled up to avoid being raked by the NEPTUNE,80, and discoved REDOUBTABLE coming out of the smoke and nearly on board her; meanwhile NEPTUNE wore and opened such a heavy raking fire from her broadside that TEMERAIRE lost her fore-yard and main-top-mast and her fore-mast and bowsprit were damaged. Although unmanageable she continued to bombard REDOUBTABLE with her larboard guns killing or wounding more than 20O of her crew as the Frenchman's bowsprit passed over TEMERAIRE's gangway. Hand grenades from the French fighting tops set fire to TEMERAIRE's foresail but this was soon extinguished. The British crew of 660 was now reduced to about 550 effectives and since these had mostly been sent below by Capt. HARVEY for shelter from the hand grenades it must have seemed to FOUGUEUX, approaching on her starboard side, that she was completely disabled. However, as the French ship approached within 10O yds, TEMERAIRE's broadside opened and crippled her. She ran foul of the British ship and was immediately boarded by Lieut. Thomas Fortescue KENNEDY; Mr James ARSCOTT, master; Mr Robert HOLGATE, midshipman, with 20 seamen and 6 marines. Within ten minutes the French had been driven off the quarter-deck and Lieut. KENNEDY and his 28 followers had taken complete possession of her.
The main-mast of REDOUBTABLE fell across the afterpart of TEMERAIRE and formed a bridge onto the French ship and a party under Lieut. John WALLACE went over to take possession.
TEMERAIRE's losses were heavy:- 47 officers and men were killed and 76 wounded and 43 more were lost on board her two prizes in the gale that followed the battle. Eight feet of her lower deck on the starboard side had been stove in and her masts and rigging badly damaged so she refitted at Gibraltar before returning to England with ROYAL SOVEREIGN,TONNANT, COLOSSUS and LEVIATHAN. Capt. HARVEY was made a rear admiral and all the lieutenants were promoted to commander. Capt. LAMOUR took command of TEMERAIRE.
1807 refitting at Portsmouth - Capt. Sir Charles HAMILTON, Channel fleet. 1808 ditto, coast of Spain.
1811 Capt. Joseph SPEAR, 3/11, (flagship of Rear Ad. PICKMORE, third in command, in the Mediterranean).
On 7 August 1811 the British fleet anchored in Hyeres Bay. When they were getting under weigh on the 13th the wind fell and TEMERAIRE drifted close to a battery of 36 pounders on the Cap des Medes at the N.E. end of the island of Porquerolles. The second shot struck the master, Mr Robert DUNCAN, while he was talking to Capt. SPEAR at the gangway, took off one of his legs and badly wounded the other, then passed though the quarter deck and dismounted one of the main deck guns. Five seamen were wounded by splinters. The TEMERAIRE immediately opened a heavy fire on the enemy battery which prevented any other shots hitting her while she was towed out of range. Mr DUNCAN would not allow the surgeon to operate until a miniature of his wife had been hung around his neck. He went on to make a good recovery and was still alive 16 years later.
TEMERAIRE's main mast had been sprung for some considerable time so she took the opportunity of going to Port Mahon to refit it. While there fever broke out in the ship and soon nearly half the officers and crew, including Capt. SPEAR were in hospital. The rear admiral and his captain would have removed to ROYAL GEORGE which had been sent out to relieve TEMERAIRE but, due to Capt. SPEAR's bad health, Sir Edward PELLEW decided to send him home in command of his own ship and by the time TEMERAIRE got as far north as Cape St. Vincent everyone's health improved.
1812 out of commission at Plymouth. She was first laid up in the Hamoaze and then removed to Sheerness where she was used as a receiving ship from 1824.

 

[unmerged(6964)]

I noticed that that link includes a link to criticism by Rukin. Interesting fact on Ruskin (not at all put in because I can't think of anything to add to what Dark Knight has already said!) when he married and the time came to consumate the realtionship (as you do...), when his good lady wife, ah, disrobed, he bacame violently ill and spent the rest of the night in the bathroom in a sorry state, the reason being that he was absolutely unaware of the whole sexual thing and nobody had ever told him that under their clothes, women are built differently to men. He never got over it and the marriage was never consumated.

 

[unmerged(2500)]

Originally posted by Fromtia


If you ignore this thread completely , my feelings will be hurt and I will start a thread called "Tanks-which is the biggest and heaviest and crushes to death humans most effectivley?"as an act of petulance.

I have to commend you for being so......innovative.

However I must say that I never understand why people have to resort to music, paintings and other forms of art to say what they want to say. If you have something to say, just say it in plain language, no matter how offensive it may sound. Without the subsequent replies to this thread, I won't be able to figure anything out of that painting.

*eagerly awaits the thread on the uber tank*

 

[unmerged(3016)]

I noticed that that link includes a link to criticism by Rukin. Interesting fact on Ruskin (not at all put in because I can't think of anything to add to what Dark Knight has already said!) when he married and the time came to consumate the realtionship (as you do...), when his good lady wife, ah, disrobed, he bacame violently ill and spent the rest of the night in the bathroom in a sorry state, the reason being that he was absolutely unaware of the whole sexual thing and nobody had ever told him that under their clothes, women are built differently to men. He never got over it and the marriage was never consumated.

Poor Ruskin.He was just too good for this base and wicked world.

 

[unmerged(3016)]

"We have stern keepers to trust her glory to-the fire and the worm. Never more shall sunset lay golden robes on her, nor starlight tremble on the waves that part at her gliding. Perhaps, where the low gate opens to some cottage-garden, the tired traveller may ask, idly, why the moss grows so green on its rugged wood; and even the sailor's child may not answer, nor know, that the night-dew lies deep in the war-rents of the wood of the old Temeraire." - Ruskin.

 

[Richard Hakluyt]

Re: Re: The Fighting Temeraire

Originally posted by Fallwall




I have to commend you for being so......innovative.

However I must say that I never understand why people have to resort to music, paintings and other forms of art to say what they want to say. If you have something to say, just say it in plain language, no matter how offensive it may sound. Without the subsequent replies to this thread, I won't be able to figure anything out of that painting.

*eagerly awaits the thread on the uber tank*

The painting is beautiful in itself, one of my favourites, its also a great way of indulging in nostalgia and conservatism. When I look at it I think of the romance of sailing ships and Britain's great naval victories against the French, the little tug makes me think of timetables and business. I imagine the painting hanging in the office of a steamship magnate, during times of stress he relaxes by looking at it, most of the time is spent analysing shipping schedules and the location of coaling stations.

If the artist had used words to state his thoughts the result would be quite banal. Something along the lines of, "I sometimes think that all this progress is very ugly and that things used to be more beautiful, remember the old sailing ships?". Surely the painting is better than that?