The faction system needs to change

[Trunting]

hmmmm the faction system has made the game totally easy... I don't understand the complaining about it being too hard. Its the contrary: Its far too easy - simply use your spymaster to scheme on the faction leader. You wont see any serious revolts in about 50 years, which is really boring.

 

[tapewormlondon]

hmmmm the faction system has made the game totally easy... I don't understand the complaining about it being too hard. Its the contrary: Its far too easy - simply use your spymaster to scheme on the faction leader. You wont see any serious revolts in about 50 years, which is really boring.

THIS, I was having trouble with them too, but then I started using the spymaster to scheme, along with a couple of bribes and all my troubles went away......of course your king cant be a complete bumbling idiot, but otherwise it works

 

[Naltharial]

I play with similar strategy of high diplomacy but when I get empire level I shy away from elective because for some reason even electors with 100 opinion of me sometimes vote for someone else. I find it hard to control 10+ electors. Heck vassals with 100 opinion of me even make plots to overthrow me. I think the current AI thinks too much like a player

Raise your heir's diplomacy. It works off of their opinion for both you and your heir.

 

[panionios]

The faction system needs to change

No, it doesn't. I started in 1066 as Rostov, have united all the Russian lands, control all counties all the way to end of the map and bordering Khiva, inherited Denmark, own the whole of Finland, Lithuania, Prussia, Livonia (I am ready to declare myself King of the Poles), got Thrace-Constantinople back from the Ilkhanate (for the glory of the Orthodox faith). I have 82 vassals. It's 1330. I haven't had a single rebellion!!!!!!!!!! I BEAT THE MONGOLS ON FIRST CONTACT. How did I do that (and I am new to this game).

Through good management of vassals (spend money on them), spymaster (scheme) and diplomat (increase relations with strong members of factions), it's actually easy (though time-consuming).

I also tested this in-game which appears to work excellently:

I have created every single Kingdom title in my Empire and usurped all that I could (because you cannot create all Kingdoms if you are the wrong culture). I KEEP ALL KING TITLES FOR MYSELF. Yes, this gives me a -20 for everyone desiring each Kingdom BUT: This means that the factions are split between the Kingdoms, especially the Lower Crown one's. Rather than have a single strong Lower Crown in Russia, I have 4-5 weak one's (Lower in Georgia, Rus, Lithuania, etc) which I can very easily handle. And because they are small they don't dare do anything stupid.

 

[Pannonian84]

I'm well aware that his is offtopic but there is one screenshot i was talking about in a previous post, so here it is: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1119411465605782673/EA171BADBB4A875752A8474C70712A35C492A3EF/

(There is just one trade republic which was created after we continued in 1.09)

 

[Slaxl]

Pre-factions you'd get a dozen OPMs revolting you could easily stomp, now you get them working together, I think that mechanic is brilliant. However sometimes I start a game as William the Conqueror and withing weeks I've been elected King of France as well as England because of factioneering. Without even trying. So it needs tweaking for certain aspects, but I think it's certainly a move in the right direction.

 

[hbkmog]

Same thing just happened to me yesterday. One duke who had over 80 something opinion of me joined the faction and instantly increase the faction power to almost 100%. Needless to say, rebellion happened but I squashed them eventually and got them imprisoned.

I think it's just too random and often how your vassal decide to create/join a faction without some solid reasons. "Install xxx to the throne of xxxx..." happens far too often compared to real history.

 

[c01mhth10ch]

Same thing just happened to me yesterday. One duke who had over 80 something opinion of me joined the faction and instantly increase the faction power to almost 100%. Needless to say, rebellion happened but I squashed them eventually and got them imprisoned.

Same thing, yesterday I'm playing my first ever game as king of Scotland and even tho I found factions to be a good change at first (made much more sense then random rebellions ; before this I only played demo version 1.0). So... my strongest duke who really likes me (80+) joins this loser uncle's faction which soared from 5% to 70%+. Ofc they had strong stack of supporters but fortunately I was saving for dark days and was able to hire some mercenaries which saved the day. Anyhow, guy liked me a lot and then out of nowhere BAM! I went from comfort zone to armagedon stage over a course of 1 week.

In faction's defense, my "loser uncle" had 1 county but great diplomacy, while my guy had diplomacy of 8. So if we assume mr. traitor Count had 100 opinion of my loser uncle and 81 opinion of me, is that reason enough for joining his faction, because that's not very nice, and only way to assure no one will backstab you is to be 100 with them.

 

[Klarum]

Same thing just happened to me yesterday. One duke who had over 80 something opinion of me joined the faction and instantly increase the faction power to almost 100%. Needless to say, rebellion happened but I squashed them eventually and got them imprisoned.

I think it's just too random and often how your vassal decide to create/join a faction without some solid reasons. "Install xxx to the throne of xxxx..." happens far too often compared to real history.

In my most recent Byzantine game I start as a small duke in Greece, gather enough duchies to form the kingdom of Greece, then proceed to start a plot to put me in the Imperial seat even though i have a 75 opinion of the Emperor. If the AI can be almost as clever as a human it is a GOOD thing not a broken feature. AI wants power just like you.

 

[ChildeR]

In faction's defense, my "loser uncle" had 1 county but great diplomacy, while my guy had diplomacy of 8. So if we assume mr. traitor Count had 100 opinion of my loser uncle and 81 opinion of me, is that reason enough for joining his faction, because that's not very nice, and only way to assure no one will backstab you is to be 100 with them.

Vassals with opinion over 80 of the ruler only join factions if coerced/persuaded by another vassal's spymaster.

 

[Illanair]

I haven't played around with the faction system enough to discuss it's balancing - but it annoys me how my vassals can essentially force changes that I cannot.

Lower crown laws?

As a vassal - Ultimatum.
As a king - Initiate a vote and pray that people agree to it.

Why can't I do the opposite of them? Demand that my vassals agree to my law change or face a civil war (with the liege being the aggressor)

Now don't get me wrong - I love how the faction system works for vassals. There's a lot of power in a full blown rebellion (I've had to agree to a lot of ultimatums due to being engaged in an all out war elsewhere) and it works a lot better than the old " Vassals might revolt " system (which is still there but a lot less frequent because of factions)

I'd also love to see the concept of being able to plot "Leave this faction" threats - As far as I understand it (very little admittedly) you can only send your spymaster and pray he hits the right person with a low percentage chance event.

 

[c01mhth10ch]

Vassals with opinion over 80 of the ruler only join factions if coerced/persuaded by another vassal's spymaster.

I see, so beside making sure all important vassals are in good standing with their liege one is also to keep an eye out for troublemaker's diplomacy and spymaster (however do you do that then to assume what is he doing and scheming to opposite effect). Anything else to add?