The exiled - the Netherlands in CORE

[cegorach]

Hi !

I decided to write, or rather show (because my command of this languege is rather poor and all too rusty...) the second AAR playing a country which I never tried before.


As long as I can remember I was interested in alternative history - the certain moments where fate of nations is decided and history can change in any direction.
I am certain now that most common mistake with alternate realities is to believe that what actually happened was most probable or even very likely to happen.
Far too often people tend to blame past governments for mistakes which were difficult to avoid, which were not possible to predict or because something accidentally actually happened, but for those people was simply unthinkable.
Of course that is usually the case with nations which suffered from that - blaming ancestors even if they really couldn't do much if anything.

For this reason I will try to see the future as they did, which means that I WILL make mistakes, I will waste resources and that I will certainly lose - to a point of course.

There are some basic rules I will try to implement:

1. historical play - it doesn't mean that I will do what I can to lose in Europe and intentionally give up in Asia, but I am not going to use tricks to make it easier.
There will be a problem if something weird happens, but I am going to play for five months ahead before reporting (or for shorter perdiods when at war).

2. neutrality - as far as I can tell the Netherlands didn't expect to be attacked and hoped it will simply play the same part it did during the previous world conflict.
This means that I will NOT join the Allies before Germany actually attacks me.
It also results in slider moves - before 1938 nothing changes with hawk lobby or interventionism.
I will still have to move the second because I will eventually join the Allies and it would be stupid if I could do so even if invaded...

3. exiled nation
Eventually I will lose all possessions except those in Central-South America. In CORE I have a VP in Curacao so I cannot be annexed - this gives me some advantages and I cannot not notice how it will be similar to the way governments in the exile are supposed to fight in HoI III.
This also means that my later involvement will be limited - simply my loyal Dutch will sufferr from small IC, little MP and lack of supplies.
The third can be avoided to a degree because as a good 'parasite' I will base my forces in Allied territories, but first two will hurt a lot.
On the other hand I will try to have at least one division/naval TF/air wing where something is happening so you will most likely see Dutch divisions in Northern Africa, something bombarding Germany (if I am lucky to have TACs...) and finally my army returning home and driving towards Berlin.

In general I will try to do something similar the Polish did, so hopefully some key battles will be won with my involvement, perhaps it will even be critical.

4. I am going to keep a degree of flexibility if something happens I will try to react in a realitic way - not simply carry on regardless...

5. No reloads except when something causes a CTD or a massive and chaotic change - the game engine sometimes simply does ... strange things.





In addition I must add that I am no expert about Dutch history which only interests me to some degree and that is rather in XVIth and XVIIth century...
If it is necessary to explain something or inform other readers I am announcing it now that I will apppreciate any comments, hopefully by informed people - don't worry about off topics, I don't worry I will learn something.

It is actually something new to me, because I usually try to do something only if I consider myself well prepared to do it right.
In this case it might result in a fairly good and interesting AAR, but it is possible it will be a failure and a waste of your time.






Now the basics:


I am playing Dutch campaign on normal, in the latest edition of CORE mod.
That might be actually the first AAR for this edition of this mod if I am not wrong, am I ?

I will use Dutch icons prepared by Mylae - some are ready, some hopefully will become available while I play the game.

Finally it is also a way to advertise my improvement pack for the mod which I am going to release in time of two weeks.
I know that HoI III is coming and it might be too late, but the latest edition of this mod is something great - I tested it for several months.



Oh, one more thing - updates will come every couple of days, not as unpredictable as it was the first time when in the end I was left with over 3 gigabytes of screenshots when my HDD suddenly died...
I will also try to answer any questions and to all comments.

I should have enough spare time to deal with that and to finish my other projects elsewhere, real life is a bit more predictable recently.


All right - first update today - there will be no placeholders this time.



Regards Cegorach

 

[cegorach]

So we are starting

The Dutch are one of better prepared factions - very good images, very well selected models/ship classes etc.

It will be interesting to play with this country, especially because I have no idea what to expect - didn't check their files so I am not even sure what techteams and commanders do they get.

Dutch government is not a dissapointment, but it could be better. It is obvious that we are a peaceful, neutral nation, but some ministers leave something to be desired - especially Pieter Oud with his submarine obsession.
How do you cure that ?

Anyway there are some good news and some bad news :

bad

completely dove, completely isolationist - will take ages to move any of those.
The army is rather unprofessional as well, but since we haven't been involved in any fighting for centuries...


good

with the first slider move we are a fully dedicated free market economy


Still it depends on what are we really facing.

The question is not so easy to answer as it seems the largest, most persistent and dangerous enemy of the Netherlands is one of the elements itself:

NO wonder that the Dutch have so respectable naval traditions which makes their naval forces different than others

It seems that Holland invests a lot in submarines - two ministers, naval commision events and this doctrine support that statement.
Submarines and destroyers led by light cruisers - would it work, we wonder.

**notice
the naval commision events -almost every larger country see those, as long as it expanded its navy and had some ships started before 1936 those are here. Sometimes even vessels started/rearmed later are covered e.g. Italian battleships.
Personally I think it is one of those thing which make the mod really interesting to play.

A quick research and it is confirmed - our navy is MIGHTY

Or it isn't - the Netherlands have several submarines in no less than four squadrons, including several larger and long-ranged warships, but they have only three light cruisers and two large minelayers/escort sloops.

Still it is a nice thing to 'discover', though something tells us that this sole transport squadron will be the most useful part of our navy...
perish the thought !!



A worrying thig to discover is to see some squadrons commanded by lower ranks - something must be done with that

**notice
every ship is represented as a single, separate unit; the only exception is the transport squadron, but a single ship is rarely able to transport a whole divisions especially with fuel, supplies etc.

For the purpose of the game I think I will scuttle warships which are reduced to X level of strenght. 10 % maybe ??


After first decisions we realis that it is not so good at all

the shortage of supplies can cause problems and something MUST be done with that, or rather HAS TO be done...


Since we started assessing our military capabilities let's finish it

While the navy is quite powerful (still ranking behind over a dozen of countries, if not more), the airforce of the homeland of Fokker is...

Ehem... roughly 70 airplanes... not good, not good at all

**notice
the naval bombers are rather recon machines which operate in small units circa 25 airplanes in each.
Holland like many smaller countries operates MNA mixed air groups which band together interceptors, CAS and tactical bombers. It is never good as any of those when performing 'their' tasks, but is relatively cheap and can act as any of them, to a point.


Our ground forces are a bit better

8 reserve infantry divisions in Europe nad another three in Asia + several, small garrisons (battalion size ?).

We don't have anything else but infantry, and that is small, two regimental units with old weaponry and I WW artillery.
Hmm... maybe commanders are a bit better, please... please....

I hate you God !

Well, should expect that - still there is time and better officers surely will appear besides we will in the end gain experience during the war which we don't expect of course.


continues below...

 

[cegorach]

Our economy is our strenght, hopefully.
We even have some really useful colonies

BTW How are the prices in Curacao, something tells me it is a good idea to buy some land there. All right, maybe in 1943, nothing will hapen to that time anyway.


Starting technology can tell a lot about a faction

Great Depression... hate that song...

Still fully industrial unlike Soviets, Japan etc...

Infantry techs show how bad it really is - 1930 infantry without 1934 infantry weapons... dull.

OK, ok it wasn't that bad, now it is.
Even not a basic armoured vehicle is available - armoured cars are an exception. Anyway it is a weapon of aggression isn't it ?

And as we see with the doctrine techs we are cautious and neutral without even aggressive training.

Secret technologies are still... secret. Not for long, I am sure

Our air force is worse than our aeroplane industry

Most likely much of the production is exported. Not so bad, we might want to deal with some older technologies before starting with the 1937 airplane industry.

**notice
there are two, even three different industrial branches - smaller states which usually do not produce any combat airplanes or anything flying at all have doctrine based techs recreating their units formed from imported combat flying machines.
Many techs are blocked and will open when a previous one is researched or electronics in the industrial branch is done.

No wonder air doctrines are so primitive

**there are two major choices - independent airforce which is difficult to research in the beginning, but opens up strategic bombing techs and gives some BPs later and the army-oriented technologies.
There are also more exotic choices - night flying, naval techs and parachute training.


Naval techs are quite different

We cannot really construct larger vessles, but our smaller ships are quite good, submarines especially.


That feeling is even more powerful when we see our techteams

There are three shipyards, two with sub experience, while ground doctrine researchers are rather weak and there are two of them which is not too many for a country with three tech slots.

We also notice that industry and electronics are our domains. Several really good teams here, hopefully it will give something.

First research is started

Choices are pretty obvious - light industry which gives, among others, 2 % industrial efficiency and is easy and fast to research. With so large supply drain the sooner the better.
Recovery tech and secret technology techs will increase research speed and in case of the first give many other advantages. It might even stop the supply loss altogether so is a priority. It will also reduce dissent which is a problem with so isolationist, peaceful and democratic nation.








Next time - first two, years - boring ? We will see.

 

[phargle]

At least your queen is hot.

 

[bpscool]

glad someone started an AAR with this mod... i like it a lot... Generally play as the USA... there a lot of fun in the mod! Netherlands looks fun as well! *subscribed*

 

[Beamed]

Looks awesome.

 

[cegorach]

glad someone started an AAR with this mod... i like it a lot... Generally play as the USA... there a lot of fun in the mod! Netherlands looks fun as well! *subscribed*

Never played with the US in CORE, but eventually maybe I will.

Hopefully it is at least a bit more challenging than in the vanilla or many mods.

@phargle

At least your queen is hot.

Indeed. I hope that pig-headed is just a meaningless expression....

 

[Windmolen]

I suppose you'll lose most of those excellent techteams when ze Germans overrun the european homeland?

As a dutchie, I'll be following this AAR

 

[cegorach]

I suppose you'll lose most of those excellent techteams when ze Germans overrun the european homeland?

As a dutchie, I'll be following this AAR

Actually I am not sure.

Of course the Nethelands will be lots as the research capabilities in many cases - they should be, but

I have no way to simulate Dutch army recreated using American or British help, no way to upgrade my divisions and air wings using their resources and limited capabilities to replace losses.
In addition after I will return I would be hopelessly behind in research whatever I do, even with those techteams.

Finally I will never receive any airplanes, ships or anything else from my allies - everything will have to be done using my own resources - except supplying what is left of my army...

I will try to find some way to recreate all that, but I don't want to modify the game except some improvements which will be rather for Poland, Japan, Baltic States etc than the Dutch who are quite well covered.

I think I will abandon practical nuclear techs and anything else which would be unavailable, but keep researching tanks, electronics etc maybe without of those techteams, but really I think it is fair if I keep them all things considering. I will get some BPs, supplies, resources and that is pretty all when it comes to my allies and their help.

I wonder how HoI III will cope with all that.

 

[bpscool]

well In my experiance playing as the USA... its nearly impossible to research everything you need... However its much more demanding and appealing then playing the US in vanilla i can tell you that much... I look forward to your netherlands AAR great Job so far!

 

[unmerged(104560)]

I'm always happy when some one starts a Netherlands AAR.

Oh and btw your CAS says luchtvaartafdeeling, but it is luchtvaartafdeling.

It's a single e not two (If you can fix it it would be awesome if not let it be )

Anyway subscribed

 

[Windmolen]

Actually I am not sure.

Of course the Nethelands will be lots as the research capabilities in many cases - they should be, but

I have no way to simulate Dutch army recreated using American or British help, no way to upgrade my divisions and air wings using their resources and limited capabilities to replace losses.
In addition after I will return I would be hopelessly behind in research whatever I do, even with those techteams.

Finally I will never receive any airplanes, ships or anything else from my allies - everything will have to be done using my own resources - except supplying what is left of my army...

I will try to find some way to recreate all that, but I don't want to modify the game except some improvements which will be rather for Poland, Japan, Baltic States etc than the Dutch who are quite well covered.

I think I will abandon practical nuclear techs and anything else which would be unavailable, but keep researching tanks, electronics etc maybe without of those techteams, but really I think it is fair if I keep them all things considering. I will get some BPs, supplies, resources and that is pretty all when it comes to my allies and their help.

I wonder how HoI III will cope with all that.

Well historically the dutch contribution to world war 2 was small. In numbers that is. You can be very happy when you can contribute a fighter unit, some divisions and your small navy, provided that you don't lose it all when Japan comes knocking! If you want to simulate Allied equipment being sold to the Netherlands, give yourself one or two divisions with strength 1. Reinforcing them doesn't cost as much IC as building it yourself. This is to simulate that the allies have given you the weapons, but you have to provide the men.

I'm always happy when some one starts a Netherlands AAR.

Oh and btw your CAS says luchtvaartafdeeling, but it is luchtvaartafdeling.

It's a single e not two (If you can fix it it would be awesome if not let it be )

Anyway subscribed

I'm not sure. Before the second world (i.e. during/after first world war) war it was spelled as "afdeeling". We now use other spelling rules. I however do not know when they changed it from afdeeling to afdeling.

EDIT: BTW cegorach, I've played a few games with CORE .40 now. I do recommend you play with monthly autosaves or something close. Not to bash CORE and the modteam has put in many hours to make it, but I've experienced CTD's in each and every game I played. Maybe I'm just unlucky and hopefully it doesn't happen to you, but with monthly autosave on the damage isn't that great when it does happen

 

[Hagar]

I'm always happy when some one starts a Netherlands AAR.

Oh and btw your CAS says luchtvaartafdeeling, but it is luchtvaartafdeling.

It's a single e not two (If you can fix it it would be awesome if not let it be )

Anyway subscribed

Old spelling my boy - used to be big in the fourties. De Luchtvaartafdeeling (LVA) was de voorloper van de Nederlandse Koninklijke Luchtmacht.

See for instance here.

Anyway, it's good to see that Dutch imagery enjoyed, as I spent a lot of time doing them.

 

[Hagar]

EDIT: BTW cegorach, I've played a few games with CORE .40 now. I do recommend you play with monthly autosaves or something close. Not to bash CORE and the modteam has put in many hours to make it, but I've experienced CTD's in each and every game I played. Maybe I'm just unlucky and hopefully it doesn't happen to you, but with monthly autosave on the damage isn't that great when it does happen

There is one CTD that sometimes is being triggered a few weeks after Vichy fires. It cropped up during the last test phase but so far is a bugger to track down... I have it myself repeatably happen if I run a game straight from 1936 onwards, but once I revert to a save game the darn thing works fine. As the history log gives no clue what's actually being triggered this can be a loooong CTD hunt.

 

[cegorach]

I had to play it to mid-1940 because situation was somehow... strange in many ways, but it went back to 'normal' (at least nothing crushed) so I can throw another update tomorrow without any sleepless nights.

You will see what I mean...

Besides it is C.O.R.E. so even peace can be interesting.

well In my experiance playing as the USA... its nearly impossible to research everything you need... However its much more demanding and appealing then playing the US in vanilla i can tell you that much... I look forward to your netherlands AAR great Job so far!

When playing as Japan I was using my spies A LOT and sometimes they've maneged to steal something really valuable.

Well historically the dutch contribution to world war 2 was small. In numbers that is. You can be very happy when you can contribute a fighter unit, some divisions and your small navy, provided that you don't lose it all when Japan comes knocking! If you want to simulate Allied equipment being sold to the Netherlands, give yourself one or two divisions with strength 1. Reinforcing them doesn't cost as much IC as building it yourself. This is to simulate that the allies have given you the weapons, but you have to provide the men.

Dutch capitulation should give me something - I doubt it will eliminate ALL of my divisions.
There should be some to fight limited battles in Europe and Africa.

It somehow new to me - but it seems every squadron/air wing/division will have its own story to tell.

EDIT: BTW cegorach, I've played a few games with CORE .40 now. I do recommend you play with monthly autosaves or something close. Not to bash CORE and the modteam has put in many hours to make it, but I've experienced CTD's in each and every game I played. Maybe I'm just unlucky and hopefully it doesn't happen to you, but with monthly autosave on the damage isn't that great when it does happen

Don't worry - I know. I tested the game for some time.

Anyway, it's good to see that Dutch imagery enjoyed, as I spent a lot of time doing them.

It was one of main reasons. This and the 1 VP in Curacao which allows some realistic scenarios to be played.

There is one CTD that sometimes is being triggered a few weeks after Vichy fires. It cropped up during the last test phase but so far is a bugger to track down... I have it myself repeatably happen if I run a game straight from 1936 onwards, but once I revert to a save game the darn thing works fine. As the history log gives no clue what's actually being triggered this can be a loooong CTD hunt.

Seen it and hated it as Japan.
When at war I autosave every month anyway.

 

[unmerged(104560)]

Old spelling my boy - used to be big in the fourties. De Luchtvaartafdeeling (LVA) was de voorloper van de Nederlandse Koninklijke Luchtmacht.

o Thought they used the present grammer then, but it turns out they used the old grammar.

 

[The Balbinater]

i like to see a player take on a tough game... good luck

 

[cegorach]

Several hours delayed, but it still manages to arrive.



Those wonderful years




IN 1936 Europe is still a peaceful place. The Netherlands actually care more about recovering from the Great depression than other problems, especially because most of those do not concern this country anyway.

Dutch neighbours seem more interested in dealing with their problems than in doing anything which can cause problems to the United Provinces. Good, that should stay this way.

Of course as we see Germany have their traditional border disputes with France, but they won't go to war because of it ? Will they ??
Anyway only Belgians have to worry about it - we don't really care.

After Germany, the UK and France other largest industrial powers are the Soviets and Italy.
Italy currently wages colonial war against Ethiopia, but in Europe it has only a minor dispute with small Austria.
The Netherlands are between larger-minor powers of Europe - if we consider its industry especially - together with Poland and Spain.

Poland is a semi-authoritarian country which apparently is interested in conquering* the peaceful Soviet Union ruled by benevolent 'president' Kalinin and his modest, silen and not very ambitious prime minister Stalin.
It seems that the Soviets are trying to build peaceful ties with their neighbours, but none of them for some reason believe them...
Not our problem anyway.

Smaller minors include industrialised Czechoslovakia, vengeful Hungary, victorious Romania, ...complicated Yugoslavia, small Austria, neutral Sweden and formerly Ottoman, now reformed Turkey.


* the cores probably recreate both - the borders of historical Belorus and sizable ethnic Polish communities in both Belorussia and Ukraine.
Questionable to some degree, because there were no plans or desire to expand the territory - neither federalist nor nationalist camp were supporting further expansion, but in case of a war extensive plans existed to create an allied Ukrainian army - somehow similar to this in 1920.

IN Asia there are some states we consider neutral - the Philippines and Malay States - large, divided China and strong Japan are too far to make them our problem.



Our foreign policy is to stay neutral, so keep relations relatively good with all neighbours.

We can try to achive that with some help - despite France trying too influence our decisions or pompous Britain suggesting that our independence is in danger. Or perhaps they still fear us - at least some people could believe that.

The olimpic games clearly help with that

even with that...

No it wasn't nice... not at all.


Most of 1936 and 1937 we spent involved in domestic affairs...

Political situation wasn't especially uneventfull.

Anyway with ur country recovering and people getting richer

we could celebrate some major achievements

while our economy grows and our science wins where other fail. **

** no, not really, but it sounds GOOOD.


Even our military actually benefits from that
with older ships being finished.

(YES De Ruyeter - Brits, just remember we can still bite !)

and new ones started

Not that we can afford much, but our it isn't really necessary...

Democracy is stable in the western part of Europe, eastern - we don't really care, while Africa is too far away to matter.

Or it isn't ??

Well, still just a minor problem...

Hmmm... international community will handle that. Hey community ? Community ?

It will take years anyway....

Oh sh**...

 

[cegorach]

Now we actually start regretting we didn't fortify this border, just a bit...

Anyway it is too far from our territory, just a local conflict that is.

If one of our neighbours did something it could be... threatening...

Things like Italy trying to make itself look important do not really matter

See, they even might act as a stabilising power, besides the Germans are the men of their word

Hmmm... I guess someone didn't read the small print...

It is just a local conflict anyway, what about Asia ?

Nationalist China having problems with low cost airlines ?

Now that is... an entertainment !!

Our sources believe that when the first coup happened and was crushed the military was so angered the sentences were so lenient they decided to punish them on their own.

Which resulted in something similar the plotters were trying to achieve with the first attempt, but that is just... a small detail.

Nothing will happen because of it.

Ok... I was wrong, but only those without a ... bad call should cast a stone... or something...


Anyway to safer topics.

What we really like is so many countries involved in a peaceful exchange of knowledge.

Never mind it is machines of death we are talking about...
We don't.

Especially if we are paid as well.

How on earth did we sell the airplanes we cannot produce ??
I suspect some private business initiatives...

Oh, what ? I mean WHAT is going on, where ? In Germany ??

Apparently they are actually doing something they shouldn't

**notice the escort option which is available for several, smaller destroyers.


Ok we' ve lost our temper, now regret it !

because the Netherlands are going to rearm !!

our army will become stronger

and we will follow others' example and steal your secret projects !

or not... for now. Maybe later.


**notice that the AI till makes controversial decisions such as countries trying steal projects from less developed neighbours (POL vs. LIT), but sometimes they do it right.










NEXT - I see... problems, but that is nothing a discussion cannot solve - peace will be saved for sure.

 

[Mico94]

the low ICs are a feature of the mod or are you playing on a such diffuculty level?
nica AAR, subscribed