The European cardinal restriction should be scrapped

[kviiri]

I already posted a more informal rant about this on the general forum, but here goes... it makes no sense to limit cardinals to just the European continent.

Gameplay-wise, this becomes obvious if one plays a nation such as the Knights and try to fulfill their ambition of recreating the lost crusader kingdom of Jerusalem. It is a noteworthy quest because it's the way to secularize as the Knights (similar to Prussia for Teutonic Order and Courland for Livonian Order) but also because it's one of the few (or perhaps even the only one) nation formation decisions that forces one to remain Catholic, while having you conquer lands that will be worthless to your church because the holiest of cities can't house a cardinal. You would do better in the Papacy game if you conquered Ireland instead of Jerusalem. Think about that for a moment.

Limiting cardinal creation to Europe isn't historically sensible either: before the Christians lost the Holy land to the Muslims, even several Popes had their origins in the region.

Just scrap it, please.

 

[Denkt]

It is funny that Catholic means universial doctrine then it is the only religion with a restriction on which nations that can take full advantage of it. Also I suggest that the strength of the papacy abilities should depend on how many catholic nations that are in the game like it is for the HRE, more the stronger the papacy becomes. That way it may not be advantagesous to eliminate other Catholic nations to reduce competition of the papacy.

 

[kviiri]

It is funny that Catholic means universial doctrine then it is the only religion with a restriction on which nations that can take full advantage of it. Also I suggest that the strength of the papacy abilities should depend on how many catholic nations that are in the game like it is for the HRE, more the stronger the papacy becomes. That way it may not be advantagesous to eliminate other Catholic nations to reduce competition of the papacy.

I agree that it's kind of funny that it's disadvantageous to spread Catholicism (because you lose slices of the cardinal pie to lesser nations) but that's a separate issue. I wish more religions had effects related to their relative spread across the world.

 

[Thrac]

The problem is not the spreding off cardinals outside Europe, but the Papacy and Cardinal sistem itself ... its to random and uncontrolable by the player... look at protestant/reformed .... total control over your religion and you decide what and wher.
A rethink of the Cardinal sistem would be nice... maybe a fix number of cardinals per region... something like 2 cardinals for france for example and if you conquer Milan you get ther cardinal 2, so you got 3 cardinals and better chances of becoming pope controler... its a idea...

 

[Danfish77]

I'd be okay with allowing cardinals to appear in any catholic country except for colonial nations. Once they break free, fine.

 

[kviiri]

The problem is not the spreding off cardinals outside Europe <snip>

I kinda consider the different nature of Catholic bonuses to be an adequate representation of Catholic church's status as an independent international political entity. I don't say changing the system would be a bad idea, but I'd like the feeling of an independent Catholic church to remain.

As long as that independent Catholic church doesn't discriminate against non-Europeans senselessly, that is. At very least not against their own Holy city of Jerusalem.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

Agreed, a full stop against appointing popes off continent is too severe. On the other hand, the game does need something to bias cardinal assignments towards Europe, both for realism and balance reasons.

I'd suggest replacing the ban on cardinals being assigned off continent with a 33% consideration penalty. So that an off continent province needs to have 50% more development than an on continent province to takes it's place in the 10 province list for consideration.

 

[kviiri]

I'd suggest replacing the ban on cardinals being assigned off continent with a 33% consideration penalty. So that an off continent province needs to have 50% more development than an on continent province to takes it's place in the 10 province list for consideration.

This would make sense for Far Eastern and American lands, but would still feel weird for Jerusalem which I admit is one of the main reasons why I brought up this complaint. They should be important enough to the church's prestige to have their Crown Cardinals.

 

[BrokenSky]

If they instead only weighted probability on development it'd give a strong-ish bias for Europe, without blocking places like Jerusalem.

 

[PsysmicSound]

The problem is not the spreding off cardinals outside Europe, but the Papacy and Cardinal sistem itself ... its to random and uncontrolable by the player... look at protestant/reformed .... total control over your religion and you decide what and wher.

Maybe because that's exactly what the geopolitical difference is between Protestantism and Catholicism? Protestants have total control over their religion because it is their religion. Catholicism is the Pope's religion. Catholic monarchs historically bent things to their will a little bit, but they could never truly control religion in their realm because that's not what Catholicism is.