The End-Game self fulfilling prophecy

[Rognvaldr19]

Now bear with me here, because I only just thought about this just five minutes ago that I had to quit CKII just to come here and ask people if I'm crazy or not, but I'm getting a strange feeling that what's supposed to be the end game is possibly something amazing (that's if it's being planned like I think it is).

Right, so early game, you go off exploring the galaxy, meeting new Aliens and soon-to-be slaves, and colonising the duck out of every suitable planet or moon. Then it hits mid-game where there is nothing else to claim, and your time is spent mainly dealing with managing your space empire and fighting or allying with against the alien scum.

So now you reach late game, and you are the foremost power in the galaxy, and that's when trouble starts. You become too advanced or too ambitious, you unleash extra-dimensional beings into the galaxy, or robots gain sentience and start rebelling, or you become the target of a fallen empire.

What if these threats are meant to swallow most of you whole, actually turning you into a fallen empire? Letting other aliens rise in your place? Therefore bringing you full circle.

Do you think I'm getting this right?

 

[ahhheygao]

Only if the threats recede. Otherwise, inter-galactic invaders still occupy your galaxy; it'd just be one blob taking over another blob.

I suppose having a bunch of sentient robots count as starting new civilizations, but the robots would be quite a huge blob itself.

As for extra-dimensional beings... maybe they'll go back to the hell hole from whence they came after they've eaten everything in your galaxy. In that case, yes, other pre-sentient species can arise in your place.

 

[SgtSmuckers]

Now bear with me here, because I only just thought about this just five minutes ago that I had to quit CKII just to come here and ask people if I'm crazy or not, but I'm getting a strange feeling that what's supposed to be the end game is possibly something amazing (that's if it's being planned like I think it is).

Right, so early game, you go off exploring the galaxy, meeting new Aliens and soon-to-be slaves, and colonising the duck out of every suitable planet or moon. Then it hits mid-game where there is nothing else to claim, and your time is spent mainly dealing with managing your space empire and fighting or allying with against the alien scum.

So now you reach late game, and you are the foremost power in the galaxy, and that's when trouble starts. You become too advanced or too ambitious, you unleash extra-dimensional beings into the galaxy, or robots gain sentience and start rebelling, or you become the target of a fallen empire.

What if these threats are meant to swallow most of you whole, actually turning you into a fallen empire? Letting other aliens rise in your place? Therefore bringing you full circle.

Do you think I'm getting this right?

And so The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.

 

[Abayonett]

Now bear with me here, because I only just thought about this just five minutes ago that I had to quit CKII just to come here and ask people if I'm crazy or not, but I'm getting a strange feeling that what's supposed to be the end game is possibly something amazing (that's if it's being planned like I think it is).

Right, so early game, you go off exploring the galaxy, meeting new Aliens and soon-to-be slaves, and colonising the duck out of every suitable planet or moon. Then it hits mid-game where there is nothing else to claim, and your time is spent mainly dealing with managing your space empire and fighting or allying with against the alien scum.

So now you reach late game, and you are the foremost power in the galaxy, and that's when trouble starts. You become too advanced or too ambitious, you unleash extra-dimensional beings into the galaxy, or robots gain sentience and start rebelling, or you become the target of a fallen empire.

What if these threats are meant to swallow most of you whole, actually turning you into a fallen empire? Letting other aliens rise in your place? Therefore bringing you full circle.

Do you think I'm getting this right?

I am pretty sure one of the devs mentioned the Stellaris universe has cycles or something of the like.

 

[Ifreann]

It'd be pretty cool if empires you previously won with could show up in later games as Fallen Empires.

 

[nitroholic]

I don't think you're meant to fail, that's certainly a possible outcome, though.

Relevant tweet from Wiz about 'the cycle'

Empires rise, expand and fall. Some are conquered. Some leave the galaxy, or ascend. Those who are left behind stagnate.

 

[ProfPain77]

What if these threats are meant to swallow most of you whole, actually turning you into a fallen empire? Letting other aliens rise in your place? Therefore bringing you full circle.

Do you think I'm getting this right?

It would be a daring design choice. Most players like to win. If you designed the end game crises so that even a skilled player only has something like a 1 in 10 or a 1 in 20 chance of surviving, this would make it more of a 4X rogue-like, replete with player "ghosts" as Fallen Empires. I think what you are talking about might be more options ("brutally tough end game crises" checkbox) or DLC material.

 

[Elderotter]

I don't think you're meant to fail, that's certainly an outcome.

Relevant tweet from Wiz about 'the cycle'

Something The wiz wrote in that tweet - linked above reminded me of Iain Bank's The culture: Perhaps they're living in an utterly hedonistic utopia. Or perhaps the reason is something else altogether.
The Culture is a mix of people and AIs. The AI component does the vast majority of the work.. their warships, in fact all ships are AI driven. The people component lives a hedonistic lifestyle. The Culture is not, that I have seen, expansionist... though they will protect themselves when warred upon. They are close to, but not, a Fallen Empire. One thing that separates them is their "Special Circumstances" Agency which meddles with other races. So if that lessens I could see them becoming a Fallen Empire such as the Wiz mentions. Just thought I would add that to this discussion.

 

[Fonz]

One thing I'm wondering is, will AI factions be able to trigger end-game crises? It'd get boring after a while to know and be like "Nope I know this tech causes giant death robots, this tech causes galaxy killing plagues, and this tech causes sentient space ships". Hopefully it will happen so once in a while you'd be surprised by end game events you have no preparation for and just yelling at those stupid molluscoids for messing with the wrong things.

 

[kakatua]

It would be a daring design choice. Most players like to win. If you designed the end game crises so that even a skilled player only has something like a 1 in 10 or a 1 in 20 chance of surviving, this would make it more of a 4X rogue-like, replete with player "ghosts" as Fallen Empires. I think what you are talking about might be more options ("brutally tough end game crises" checkbox) or DLC material.

Given the numbers, the majority of players can be the majority that leave the galaxy and/or ascended.

 

[Kablob]

It would be a daring design choice. Most players like to win. If you designed the end game crises so that even a skilled player only has something like a 1 in 10 or a 1 in 20 chance of surviving, this would make it more of a 4X rogue-like, replete with player "ghosts" as Fallen Empires. I think what you are talking about might be more options ("brutally tough end game crises" checkbox) or DLC material.

Losing is Fun™!

 

[Ifreann]

One thing I'm wondering is, will AI factions be able to trigger end-game crises? It'd get boring after a while to know and be like "Nope I know this tech causes giant death robots, this tech causes galaxy killing plagues, and this tech causes sentient space ships". Hopefully it will happen so once in a while you'd be surprised by end game events you have no preparation for and just yelling at those stupid molluscoids for messing with the wrong things.

I think exactly that is the case. I seem to recall something about AI empires provoking a robot uprising and your own robot pops joining the robot rebels.

 

[Rognvaldr19]

It would be a daring design choice. Most players like to win. If you designed the end game crises so that even a skilled player only has something like a 1 in 10 or a 1 in 20 chance of surviving, this would make it more of a 4X rogue-like, replete with player "ghosts" as Fallen Empires. I think what you are talking about might be more options ("brutally tough end game crises" checkbox) or DLC material.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, in my opinion it would be a brilliant road to go down, but like you say, most players like to keep on expanding and capitlising on victories, but that's the thing, if you were recovering from a massive crisis, surely that just means your retaking what's rightfully yours just with better tech?

One thing I'm wondering is, will AI factions be able to trigger end-game crises? It'd get boring after a while to know and be like "Nope I know this tech causes giant death robots, this tech causes galaxy killing plagues, and this tech causes sentient space ships". Hopefully it will happen so once in a while you'd be surprised by end game events you have no preparation for and just yelling at those stupid molluscoids for messing with the wrong things.

I'm ninety percent sure they already discussed this saying that they can, but if no one does past a certain date, then there are other catastrophe's to keep you interested like an extra-galactic invasion and the like.

See, this is what's got me intrigued, because they're obviously putting in lots of late game challenges, some out of your control and some directly related to technology. This in a way is the beauty of a sci-fi game, they are not bound by historical precedence like CKII or EUIV, so they can throw whatever they like at us.

 

[Smiles_]

Seems legit from a thematic POV, even if it won't always come into practice in actual gameplay.


Smiles

 

[Elderotter]

Losing is Fun™!

For myself, losing is never fun. It is a reason to get better, but not fun. No I am not saying I would like to win every game - that's boring and not fun. Losing is merely a motivator, not fun.

 

[fir0002]

I am pretty sure one of the devs mentioned the Stellaris universe has cycles or something of the like.

The Reapers are coming

 

[Mordaith]

I really hope this is how it rolls.

 

[brifbates]

For myself, losing is never fun. It is a reason to get better, but not fun. No I am not saying I would like to win every game - that's boring and not fun. Losing is merely a motivator, not fun.

It depends on why I lost. You can have a lot of fun doing stuff you know is going to blow up in your face and just keep pushing until it does exactly that...

The journey can be a lot of fun even if the destination is a disaster.

 

[blizz]

I hope the later game is difficult enough that these disasters can end your game. Anything less and they won't be interesting if you know your always safe.

 

[Onirim]

... I had to quit CKII just to come here and ask people if I'm crazy or not...

I think you are, man. Just for doing this.