The Emperor

[unmerged(226921)]

Apologies if this has been answered. I checked the developer comments and didnt see this asked or answered and I can't recall if its been mentioned in a developer diary at all. At any rate, I was curious as to how the Emperor is portrayed if at all, and if he is, is he playable?

My initial guess would be is hes unplayable, much like the Pope in CK, but unlike the Pope in CK, you still are playing as that clan/dynasty, so theoretically it's not as off limits. If it has been answered, please direct me. Thanks.

Regards,

A possible imperial schemer

 

[soran]

i don't think the Emperor has any role in this game other than providing players with methods of gaining extra honor quickly by giving him gifts.

the Imperial court in Japan functioned differently, it could NOT own lands, only Samurai could, so that basically leaves the Emperor and his court waiting for charity from Daimyo.

If my memory serves, at some points in history it got so bad, that the court had to sell seals and favors in return for money.

 

[Sakura]

the Imperial court in Japan functioned differently, it could NOT own lands, only Samurai could

The Emperor and nobles could own land and did (in fact, initially all land was considered to be owned by the Emperor).

To simplify things a little, in pre-Sengoku Japan land ownership was based on a sort of absentee landlordism. Land was maintained by representatives who forwarded the income from the land to the landlord (who lived in Kyoto, of course). These landlords were usually temples, nobles, or imperial family members.

By the Sengoku period, little or none of this income was actually making it to Kyoto. It was being stolen by the local representatives (who had become local nobility) or by the military officials of the Shogunate. This is what really damaged the court's finances.

If my memory serves, at some points in history it got so bad, that the court had to sell seals and favors in return for money.

Yep. Giving the court money to pay for palace maintenance and ceremonies was an easy way of getting official titles.

 

[soran]

aha, thanks for the correction :]

so basically, the daimyo/shugo in sengoku period were more or less taking the money to themselves instead of turning it to whomever it is that actually owned the land?

 

[Drakken]

It's the whole point of gekokujo: the servants toppling off the lords.

The noble owners (shoen) rarely, if never, visited their lands from Kyoto, so they hired jiro (stewards) to administrate the lands and bring in the money. Given often next to no input from Kyoto, the jiro (from who a lot of them would descend the future shugo daimyo) figured out that instead of sending the money to some dilettante in Kyoto, they could keep the money for themselves to administrate the lands and pay militias to keep order. You see where it can lead...

Noble courtiers did own land, a LOT of land. The problem is that it was unseemly for a noble courtier to go so low as to administrate their lands with a hands-on approach. What they needed was the money, and as long as money entered their coffers they did not give any attention to its administration.

 

[soran]

but it reached a point where no money was coming their way, what i find to be rather an interesting point is, -from what i know- nothing was done about that, or nothing could be done to be more accurate, since they're not willing to leave the capital, correct?

 

[Drakken]

Basically, jiro came to realize that they could expect no help either from their shoen landlords or from the Kyoto court itself. As neighbors became more and more unruly, jiro took "extraordinary" measures and for that, they needed to keep the money, and with time they transformed into the de facto ruler of these domains because most courtiers in Kyoto had no means to have their authority respected.

Keep in mind, also, that this trend happened in lands far from central Japan. Shoen landlords kept a tighter reach in lands inside the Kinai region and the surrounding provinces well into the Sengoku Jidai, because these were easier to reach.

 

[chatnoir17]

but it reached a point where no money was coming their way, what i find to be rather an interesting point is, -from what i know- nothing was done about that, or nothing could be done to be more accurate, since they're not willing to leave the capital, correct?

Yes, while some aristocrats like Ichijo in Shikoku tried to control directly their fiefs and became sengoku daimyo, the Emperor won't/couldn't leave Kyoto, because
1. the Emperor had no money to move the capital (he needed a ton of political negotiations and ceremonies for　changing the capital.)
2. the Shogun protected and keeped him and his family.

These reasons were merely my interpretation, though.

 

[Sakura]

but it reached a point where no money was coming their way, what i find to be rather an interesting point is, -from what i know- nothing was done about that, or nothing could be done to be more accurate, since they're not willing to leave the capital, correct?

Well, they complained to the Shogunate and petitioned that they do something about it. This was the whole point of the shugo (military governors) in each province, after all. To enforce the rules. In theory, the land owner would petition the Shogun who would then tell the shugo to use his troops to punish the transgressor. This is all the nobility could really do; they had no military power themselves. But with the weakening of the Shogunate's authority and the fact that it was often the shugo and his vassals that were stealing the taxes in the first place... obviously, this wasn't a very effective solution.

 

[unmerged(226921)]

Thanks for the answers everyone. I had fun reading through it all. Who should own the lands that roughly comprise of Kyoto, in this case? My Japanese history knowledge isn't as good as some users here, so I figure it'd not hurt here as to who the provinces should go to if not the Emperor.

Regards,

The Vile Westerner

 

[birdboy2000]

The (at this point dramatically weakened) Ashikaga shoguns, I'd imagine.

 

[Sakura]

Who should own the lands that roughly comprise of Kyoto, in this case?

The city or the surrounding lands?

 

[unmerged(226921)]

The city or the surrounding lands?

I mean in the sense of how Paradox would create the map. I'm unsure of what they'd do, so you can give your answer for both if you'd like. They tend to treat the larger cities as provinces, if that helps.

Regards,

The Great