The Effects of Reforms reflecting the Need

[Orinsul]

the game features a system of social welfare, but this in only an issue in an industrial society. Should not welfare reforms have little effect from their enaction and also insignificant effects also are they not in place in those societies that do not need them.
Without the new order of industrialism and the overthrow of the old society of aristocrats and common land, there is no social insecurity, what need are there for unemployment subsidies or work hour regulations when there is no threat of unemployment and work hours are set by the worker himself, a farmer doesn't work in shifts, he works until his job is done, a craftsman doesn't work twelve hours a day, he has been hired to build say a table and he has as long as he needs to finish it, be that a day of solid work or a week with little. Where every man is guaranteed employment, where every man is guaranteed a home and enough land to feed himself and his family, what need is there for unemployment, or pensions? [although pensions always existed for soldiers and other people who loose legs.], If most men work for themselves would regulating wages have any effect at all? In short would any modern-age social reforms have even the slightest significance on a feuldual society except to cause social disruption?
Social Welfare is a byproduct of social insecurity, and as such a society without mass social insecurity shouldn't be penalised for a lack of state welfare. In the societies not yet overturned by liberalism and the ethics and upheavals of the french revolution the effects of the these reforms should be less and the from the lack of them, far less severe, practically non-existent.

Perhaps a system of underlying mechanics in together with decisions to show the removal of the poor laws and the common land. That would change one of the nations values, perhaps pluralism, or something new would probably be for the best, A social security-social mobility slider to use Eu3ish terms only invisible and not under direct player control. Something to alter the effects of social reforms based on the need, simply because some is poor doesn't mean they don't have everything they need, that's only true in the modern world.

 

[telesien]

This can be more easily done with current system. When you look at Vicky 1 you will see that each reform influences different classes in a different way and different magnitude.

So when you desing lets say of work hour reform, it can have various effects.
-0 or negative on farmers. They work on fields and usually for themselves (on loaned land). So they either don't care or envy those who care.
-positive for craftsmen. They are the product of industrialisation and changing times, new class in 19th century virtually non-existent in traditional feudal society
-the same for clerks
-0 or negative for artisans. The same as for farmers. You actually ment them when you wrote about guy who is hired to make table.
-the same for bureauctrats
etc. etc.

The system of classes is great way to show social situation in your country and also shows you which reforms would be good right now.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

By the start of the game, most countries in Western Europe did have a large rural proletariat due to the second stage of the demographic transition. Hence, some "farmers" would benefit from social security and work hour limitations.

 

[telesien]

By the start of the game, most countries in Western Europe did have a large rural proletariat due to the second stage of the demographic transition. Hence, some "farmers" would benefit from social security and work hour limitations.

Then I would say we should count those as labourers (I've forgotten about them) and have farmers AND labourers in the same province.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

Then I would say we should count those as labourers (I've forgotten about them) and have farmers AND labourers in the same province.

Wouldn't it just be easier to have farmers affected by social reforms, but to a much smaller degree than other classes?

 

[Orinsul]

certainly in western europe, by the game start England, France and the Netherlands [i dont know about belguim but id expect theyd be much the same as the dutch] were more or less industrialised in the way the i mean, the disestablishment of the people had already been carried out and the counter-revolution against it [luds] toughly crushed. By as to austria, or the free german states [not prussia but all the others] and spain, the old rights were maintained, and the same for the swiss although in quite a different shape.

Telesiens statement is pretty much what im proposing but that it should change, at the start of the game farmers might not be effect but by the end, atleast in liberal countries they are just as dependant as factory workers, and dramatically given the circumstances, the expansion of an RGO would force people off the land [as its being cleared for more production] and while this would create work it also creates poverty. Political reforms would increase the rate of change, the 'slider' position determining the effects of the reform on the different classes, growing as it moves more to-wards mobility.
Maybe it could be localised by states rather than nations but that seems overly complicated.
The slider if thats how it works might also have an effect and/or be based on the calculations to determine the farmer-craftsman POP change-rate.

 

[Andrelvis]

certainly in western europe, by the game start England, France and the Netherlands [i dont know about belguim but id expect theyd be much the same as the dutch]

Belgium was the most industrialized country on the continent then, so yes.