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Tem_Probe

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This is the AAR thread for a game with Savoy that I just started. My objective? Become a major power encompassing France and Italy. Lets see how this goes.
 

Tem_Probe

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Setting up the cards

Before starting up the game, I do the following: Increase Centralization. Our state cannot be this decentralized to be effective. I setted my religious tolerance toward Catholic on maximum, placed my merchants on auto-send(I have better things to do), and adjusted my budget to have 50% to treasury and 50% to infrastructure. I order a 9000 men army built in my capital, to bolster my initial army and make myself ready for war. I set the maintenance for both navy and army at 50%, since I won't be using them yet and I need the income. I promote bailliffs in my two provinces, then I unpause the game and officially start.

----------------------------------------------------

The first steps of our Monarch, Amédée VIII le Paisible, would be to diplomatically create a powerful alliance behind him: Genoa, Modena, The Papal States and Mantua. This alliance would take a whole year to assemble. This would also allow me the time to build an 8000 men army in Piemonte.

On March 2 1420, Savoy declares war on his neighbor, France, being joined by his whole alliance. The Savoyard Defense Corps move into Lyonnais, defeating the army there before the end of the month. Meanwhile, the Piemonte Regiment moves into Provence unopposed.

In April, our ally Genoa is declared war on by Georgia, causing Modena to abandon our alliance. We join him in this war in name only, knowing that we won't be sending any troops offseas to help. Our Monarch wishes to focus on France. In October, we capture the province of Lyonnais from France, sending another 4000 men as reinforcement in Provence to continue the siege. The Savoyard Defense Corps move into Languedoc unnopposed, besieging the province.

January 1421, we capture the province of Provence. At the same time, France moves in from the north to besiege Lyonnais, trying to recapture its province. Our Monarch also agrees to a White Peace with Scotland, refusing the offers from Auvergne and Bourbonnais for the same, and the 200 ducats offered by France. Is she desperate or what? In February, France moves another army into Savoy, besieging the province. Our army from Provence moves into Dauphiné unopposed, only to be confronted by a French army moving there a few days later. The French are driven out, and we proceed to besiege the province. In April, France attacks us again in Dauphiné, driving us out. However, our main army is still intact, with some 25000 mens, while our secondary army still has a 6000 men, so Amédée decides to continue the war and try to squeeze France like a lemon. Our army moves back to Provence, while we capture the province of Languedoc. At this time, our neighbor, Milan, is militarily annexed by Austria. We will worry later.

The Savoyard Defense Corps thus move into Lyonnais, destroying the French army there besieging the province, doing the same in turn in Savoy, with little casualties. After defeating both armies, they are ordered to move onto Dauphiné, defeating the French army there, and besieging the province. All the while, our second army moves back to Savoy, to rebuild.

At this stage, our armies have this:
14000 infantry, 8000 cavalry in Dauphiné ; 5000 infantry, 1000 cavalry in Savoy. Our monarch also orders another 2000 infantry and 1000 cavalry added to our army in Savoy.

May 1422, we capture Dauphiné from the French, however attrition has made us pay a severe cost: our army lost 4000 infantry and 1000 cavalry in the siege. Our army in Dauphiné is ordered to march on Guyenne, with the intent of securing in this way all of Southern France. Meanwhile, our army in Savoy is ordered to move on Cévennes, for our first attack on Auvergne. In Guyenne, our force encounters a mere 2000 French, destroying them utherly. In Auvergne, it is even more pathetic: there is no one to oppose us. As the war continues, our ruler agrees on Royal Marriages with Aragon, Navarra, England and Austria, securing most of his current and future borders.

January 1423, we improve our trade and infrastructure technology, reaching High Renaissance level(2) in both. At the same time, France comes back to us offering peace: In exchange for Dauphiné and Lyonnais. Tempting, but not enough. There is no opposition to our armies, after all, so we might as well get all we can from them before making peace. In May, we ordered 3000 infantry and 1000 cavalry built in Savoy, to reinforce our troops besieging Cévennes, before it moves north on Auvergne. In July, 5000 cavalry from Auvergne moved into Cévennes, engaging us. We repelled them, but barely, our troops can only hold the siege, but they are no longer enough to take the province. We will need those reinforcements soon, or the siege will be lifted by the next army they send our way. At the end of the month however, Guyenne falls into our hand. Instead of moving it into Limousin as planned, we send a counter-order to our general, asking them to move into Auvergne instead, to defeat the army there and prevent them from lifting the siege in Cévennes. August, we order our reinforcements to move onto Cévennes. Our troops in Auvergne engage the enemy army there, and though the combat is harsh, we prevail, nearly destroying the enemy army. This allows us to set the siege to the province. Our reinforcement reach Cévennes in October and the fortress falls within a month. They are ordered to move against Limousin. France comes back with a peace proposal offering Dauphiné, Lyonnais and Languedoc. While a worthy proposal, we refuse it for now, since we have much to gain from its vassals first. Unfortunately, both Burgundy and England are too stubborn to allow our troops access through their lands, so indeed our offensive against North France won't happen since Orleanais belongs to England. Unless.....

August 1424, we capture the province of Auvergne. We order our troops to move north onto Berri. We encounter only minor resistance, defeating them easily. Our navy is ordered to move into Provence. We can get no military access from either Portugal, Castile or Aragon however, so our navy stops there. December, our army takes Limousin. We're sending it on Vendée. In March 1425, Berri falls to us, and we proceed to move onto Maine. We engage two small armies there, defeating them in turn. In July, we reach peace with Auvergne, getting Cévennes and 5 ducats. In October, we reach peace with Bourbonnais, getting Limousin and 30 ducats. In December, Vendée falls to us, and we order our navy to set sail for Vendée.

In April 1426, we capture Maine, and make peace with Auvergne, getting Maine and 11 ducats. We also make peace with France's new ally: Ukraine. Our ruler never quite understood what Ukraine wanted to do in a French conflict, but anyhow.... Our navy has quite a problem on the high seas. Indeed, only 6 galleys reach Vendée. Having no use for 6 ships, our Monarch decides to order them disbanded. Soon, peace with France will be reached... To prepare for eventual peace, our Monarch arranges diplomatic weddings with the realms of Castille, Burgundy, Helvetia, Siena and Tuscany. Finally, we reach peace, receving Lyonnais, Dauphiné and Guyenne for our efforts. Our reputation is rather bad now though, so we our Monarch will have to earn his peaceful nickname in the next few years.... I'll post a screenshot soon.
 

Faeelin

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Center comments, "It will be interesting to see how this game progresses. What happened to provence, and what are the settings?"
 

Tem_Probe

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Screenshot

Savoy1.bmp


Initial settings:
Easy/Furious. As far as Provence, she now only has her capital left, stuck between my provinces :)

For some reasons, the darned screenshot doesn't seem to show up...
Here's the manual link.
http://www.geocities.com/ahl_ehl/Savoy1.bmp
 
Last edited:

Tem_Probe

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A little peace-time

Savoy has enjoyed 3 years of peace so far, put to good use to promote bailiffs, build an army in our southern province(as our whole army was located in Maine at the end of the war with France), and crush rebels. The ammount of revenue diverted to the treasury has been reduced to 30%, allowing for greater tech investments. More later this week.
 

Tem_Probe

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Peace, fighting off rebels.

Resumed the game in 1429. Savoy needed peace to get its reputation back, let it be targetted by whole christianity as a black sheep. So our Monarch decided to let the time pass by, and the treasury fill up. In 1431, we had two revolts, in Guyenne and Lyonnais. We moved our army in Guyenne to quell the rebels there, but failed, and our armies are retreating back to Limousin, where our Monarch ordered the muster of 3000 Cavalry and 2000 Infantry to build an army capable of defeating those rebels. Rebels in Maine were easily crushed by the garrison there, while our army moved back into Guyenne, to crush the rebels. Small Gifts were sent to the Pope and Genoa, our two closest allies to improve relations. Guyenne was taken back, but the fortress of Lyonnais was taken by rebels. Our Monarch sent the army to march on Lyonnais. In May 1432, rebels took Guyenne, and started to besiege Dauphiné. An army of 10000 Infantry and 8000 Cavalry was ordered in the capital to put a stop to these liberation movements. Our army freed Lyonnais, and moved into Cévennes to intercept the moving rebels. The rebels were attacked finally in Guyenne and defeated, the fortress besieged as our new army was created in Savoy. New rebels in Dauphiné would complicate the matter, but our Monarch was confident that his troops would prevail. And they did indeed, crushing the rebels in Dauphiné.

Elsewhere in the world, the Ottoman Empire was growing, having just engulfed Byzantium whole and setting its aims on Athens. In the south, my neighbor, Aragon had occupied Languedoc and was besieging Provence. This could prove a threat to us, if they suceeded in conquering both neighboring provinces. France had annexed Bourbonnais, Castile and Portugal had driven the Moors from Iberia, and moved into North Africa. Muscowy was also growing large.

Guyenne was taken in August 1433, and our Duke ordered 7000 Infantry added to the army in Guyenne to oppose future rebels. Savoy would remain at peace, bidding its time, and continued courting its allies. Aragon officially annexed Provence, however France fought back. We fought several other rebellions, and on November 2 1484, our ruler passed away, replaced by Louis I. Aragon finally made peace with France in exchange for gold. A feud started between two small families, however our Duke chose to not get involved, as he had more pressant matters to attend. Rebels in Provence took the province from Aragon, before into Languedoc.

Our alliance expired, and we created a new one including all our former allies. Burgundy annexed Lorraine. A noble requested funds as help, but our Monarch stubbornly refused, causing some unrest in the realm. The unrest was not to last long however. Rebels from Languedoc moved into Guyenne, surprisingly defeating our army there. Our Monarch had our other army move in to help while that army licked its wounds. The rebels were defeated, and our Monarch arranged several Royal Marriages with nobles of the Empire, hoping to settle old feuds. in 1438, our Monarch ordered a Fine Arts Academy built in Savoy, as our ally Genoa dragged us in yet another war with Georgia. Burgundy had annexed Kleves and Hessen, while France and Aragon were struggling with the rebels in Languedoc and Provence.

We were hit by Unhappiness in the peasantry, while Genoa was busy annexing Cyprus. I continued improving relations with my allies(Which now was Papal States +200, Genoa +200, Mantua +170), as I knew they would be necessary in the coming years. Elsewhere, The Ottoman Empire was caught in a massive war with Albania, Ragusa, Hungary, Siebenburgen, Bosnia and Wallachia, while Aragon was fighting both England and Burgundy. The Fine Art Academy in Savoy was completed, providing us with bolstered income and stability.
 

Lord Durham

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Good AAR. You've done well so far. Now for the bad news, the link for your screen doesn't work. All I get is a Yahoo splash page.
 

Tem_Probe

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The problem with Geocities is common

when you follow the link, the image won't open at first. Reloading won't work either. What you need to do is simply hit enter where the address is shown in your browser, as if you had entered the address manually. This should work.
 

ilv0lontario

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it's interesting, i'm playing with savoy too, but i prefered to concentrate my force to unify italy...... i will need the french help when i will fight against Aragona......
 

Tem_Probe

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The reason I went against France first

I've played 2-3 games as Savoy before, and did the same thing: Trying to first unify Italy. However, the speed at which you lose your rep for annexing small states after each other is incredible, and I always stumbled on the same problem: I would conquer Milan and Modena and Mantua, possibly parts of Naples, but when I would try turning the steam arround, attacking either France or Burgundy, I would have to fall back due to their sheer manpower and income. And further conquests in Italy would insure a fight with the Pope, which meant giving every catholic nation arround me a casus belli, and with the ammount of bad boy I already gained, that would be suicide.... However at the start, France is weak and divided, and its ressources are already all tied up fighting off England. I figured it would be an easy conquest, and I surpassed my expectations :)
 

unmerged(547)

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Tough to move into Italy through Genoa unless you:

1. Diplo-Annex
or
2. Get some help in the Black Sea (having the Ottomans, etc. take the two Black Sea provinces)

Should be interesting.... Go for it!
 

unmerged(8608)

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I am reading this AAR (just letting you know)

An interesting move, going after France first...and one I strongly approve of.
 

Faeelin

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Originally posted by Rath Jones
Definately, I've almost never seen a France under AI control that got its act together for the first fifty years, its a nice and divided opponent.

RJ

Odd. In mine, unless I'm a nation carving itup, France ALWAYS gets its act together. As Brandenburg, it's 1450 and they've already torn a whole in the HRE to Hessia.
 

unmerged(6777)

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Dec 10, 2001
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In AI vs AI wars in France, I usually see France take a pounding but the peace settlements rarely ivolve land. Within fifty years there are several major reforms and some inheritance events that suddenly turn them into a super-power (well, that and massive manpower, huge populations...).

I certainly agree that it's worth going after France early if you get the opportunity. Later, when it's growing so much faster than its neighbours, you need to pick your timing very carefully and wait until the tail end of one of its other wars when its cash reserves are depleated.

Looks like you're off to a strong start.
 

Tem_Probe

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Resumed the game on July 15th of 1429. Scotland made war on Eire, together with France and Auvergne. Sent a warning to France promising war should they fight one of my neighbors. In January, secure military access through Burgundy, in case such an event happened, thus allowing us access to northern France should it prove necessary. Quelled rebellions in Guyenne and Lyonnais. Raise 5000 Infantry and 2000 Cavalry to reinforce my army in Lyonnais after the battle. Garanteed the Independence of Brittany in 1433. Noticed the Ottoman Empire advancing in Italy! Siena was just annexed by them, and Tuscany was under siege. This had to be stopped, the Ottoman dogs would not besiege Christianity unpunished! Our Monarch attempted to secure land access through Austria(which owned Milan), but they refused. Modena, however, agreed with us. We would march through Genoa and Modena to stop them if necessary. First however, we needed a strong army, as they had 20000 men in Italy, led by Murad II...

Our army of 12000 Infantry and 6000 Cavalry in Lyonnais was ordered to move on Piemonte. We raised 8000 Infantry and 8000 Cavalry to add to our army, preparing our invasion to stop the Ottomans. Mantua also granted us military access, and so did Venice. The question now, was how we would get the Ottoman to cede those lands to us once conquered. Before we could answer this question, Louis I became our new Monarch. In April 1435, the Ottoman officially annexed Tuscany. We immediately declared war on the Ottomans, followed by Genoa and the Pope, though our ally Mantua betrayed us. We tried to convince him to join our alliance again, but he refused. Ah well! We didn't need any traitors! Our army in Piemonte was ordered to march on Firenze. We lost 3000 mens on the way there due to lack of supplies, but engaged the enemy and gained a quick victory. They had only left 2000 men behind, while their main army marched on Romagna. Ah well, it would always be time to save the Pope later. Conquest first... Rebels in Cévennes forced us to build another army in Lyonnais, with the purpose of crushing those rebels. However, our treasury was large and prosperous, we could afford this tenfold. We defeated another small army in Firenze in November, and had made good progresses during the siege. The enemy army, 19000 mens led by Murad II, was marching on us. This would prove a good test for our troops. We not only won the battle, we utherly destroyed their army! The Ottoman would likely keep this in mind next time they would invade Italy. March saw the fall of Firenze to my troops, while the Papal States had seized Siena. The Ottomans still occupied Romagna, however they had no troops left in Italy. My troops in Firenze were ordered to wait there, we would see what would happen in the next few months. We were not in a position to negociate for land, yet. Guyenne revolted, however our army had finished training itself, and was marching on Cévennes. It crushed the rebels there, however Guyenne would prove more ressourceful, temporarily defeating our army. We had an additional contingent mustered to bolster its size. We secured peace with the ally of the Ottomans, Teke, and continued on. Guyenne fell to the hands of the rebels, but our army crushed them and took the province back. We started building galleys in Piemonte, as slow as that could be. Neither Austria nor Venice would allow us to move through their territory. In 1439, we had a Fine Arts Academy started in Savoy. The Ottomans kept offering us a lot of gold for peace, however we did not want gold. They would have to cede us their Italian possessions... Our ally, the Pope, was on crusade in Turkey, fighting and besieging their lands. In November 1440, Smyrna fell in his hands. We improved on the Quality of our Armies. In December 1441, Siena was taken back by Ottoman rebels, and we ordered our army to march in and seize the province. We severely reinforced our army in Maine, which was beginning to be taxed by rebellions, while the Pope was being defeated severely in Turkey. Siena was captured by our troops. Crushed rebels in Dauphiné. Gained an unexpected weapons manufactory in Maine. On at the end of the year 1443, we settled for peace with the Ottomans in exchange for Firenze, knowing we could not gain more due to our inability to take the fight to them. We would build back a powerful navy, and take the rest later.
 

Faeelin

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Originally posted by Faeelin


Odd. In mine, unless I'm a nation carving itup, France ALWAYS gets its act together. As Brandenburg, it's 1450 and they've already torn a whole in the HRE to Hessia.

Hmm.

They've now been carved up by the English, who've blasted a whole in France clear to Lorraine!

I suppose the fact that I took 500 ducats, and Hessia, Mains, and Alasce in peace didn't help them, either.

So clearly, the French are actually like a rotten door. One good kick, and the whole structure comes falling down.